Paisley says No again

thebaz

Rev Ian Paisley has once again pulled out of the talks up North --
What is it with the folk up North , I thought we had all moved on --
Maybe if they all sat around some relaxing pub sparked up a spliff , and had a few drinks, they could loosen up a bit and see some good in each other !

ferdi

paisley is a maniac.
i couldnt give a flying toss about the north anymore, when its discussed on tv, i change the channel. they all act like children.

Dragan

Sure, they all moved on, but don't forget what happen to Mr X's granddad and so on and so forth.

I have no time for people who are filled with hate, and thats all Paisley is. A hate monger, he's a throwback to darker days and should be put out to pasture.

county

these talks were never going to get anywhere,sinn feins refusel to acknowledge the PSNI was always going to stall the talks

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Maximilian

I honestly don't understand why anyone gives a sh it about the North. As long as they're not shooting each other all the time, let them argue forever for all I care. The whole province should be sawn off and floated out to sea.

nacho libre

I have a feeling it will all be resolved at the eleventh hour. The threat of losing their salaries will spur them on in the end to reach an accomodation.

bounty

if not now, he'll pull out later over something else, he doesnt mind direct rule, and it would be like a victory for him, because sinn fein doesnt like direct rule

ballooba

I actually started to have a little respect for old Dr P this week in that maybe, just maybe he might be willing to compromise a little bit to move things forward.

Even when the issue of Martin McGuinness and the oath to back the police came up this morning I still held out a little hope. I mean I can see where he is coming from on that one, not that I can agree with him.

Then later today they throw another issue into the fold and it looks like they are just making excuses again.

ballooba

bounty wrote:

if not now, he'll pull out later over something else, he doesnt mind direct rule, and it would be like a victory for him, because sinn fein doesnt like direct rule

Indeed, he doesn't mind direct rule from Westminster, but what about when Leinster House starts to get it's say. That is what seems to be on the plate from Blair and Ahern if this all goes Pete Tong.

MrJoeSoap

Maximilian wrote:

I honestly don't understand why anyone gives a sh it about the North. As long as they're not shooting each other all the time, let them argue forever for all I care. The whole province should be sawn off and floated out to sea.

Exactly, after all these years I'm just so unbelievably apathetic to it all.

flogen

It's not so much a 'no', more of a 'no comment'

It looks as though things will be sorted out, actually; I'd be more positive about it than I have been in the last 8 years... at the moment Sinn Fein have all but accepted the PSNI, it's just about timing now. I can see where the DUP are coming from too, it's odd to have McGuinness as Deputy 1st Minister despite a lack of pledge for the police, I do wonder if SF could organise an Ard Fheis in such a short space of time though, even if they wanted to.

baztard

Paisley has no interest in sharing power with catholics/nationalists in the long term. He is using the idea of power sharing as a bargaining chip to bring Sinn Fein in line (which is fair enough). But the chances are they'll share power for a small time and then find yet another pathetic little excuse to pull out of government and bring it all down. He wont share power because he's sectarian at heart. Not all the DUP are that hardline though, so when Paisley moves on there will be a more stable future.

baztard

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Quite a few people by the looks of it...

Rooshter

I think most people just expressed their apathy?

I actually feel sorry for Bertie and Blair having to pretend like they give a sh*t too. As if they haven't got other things to worry about... Iraq, "Bertiegate" (haha), EU expansion. interest rates... than to be pandering to the these children up there!

"Yeah lads, 150 people died in a suicide bomb in a Baghdad marketplace today, but we'll try to make your tea party, to intervene in your school girls fight about the wording of some irrelevant document which no one is going to sign."

Get a grip, I say.

lostexpectation

can martin mcguiness not declare an oath to northern ireland rather then the UK? or what is he being asked how can he decalre an oath to an organisation that could and has thwarted and will screw with legitmate democratic work towards an united ireland.

I don't believe this thread. Anyone who says they don't care about the North clearly didn't live through the times I did, can't remember the Hunger Strikes, the bombs at Enniskillen and Omagh, the slaughter at Frizells Fish Shop and Greysteel, the dark nights at places like Milltown Cemetery and Loughgall. I remember them well. I think it is the most important issue on this island. I don't expect all to share my priorities, but to me it's a hell of a lot more important than traffic jams in Dublin or zoning in Lucan, or whether there's a leak in a port tunnel or we have to pay a few more cents for petrol. Yeats had it spot on about the fumbling in the greasy till.

Malone

A lot of people have no idea of Irish history.What has happened in the six counties since partition is a direct result of British miss rule.What sickens me is when so called Republicans in Fine Gael and Fine Fail who say Michael Collins,De Valera,Pearse, etc are heroes for fighting against the Britsh (who(killed thousands of people) but call people who fought against the British in the 70s,80s and 90s as terrorists.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote:

I don't believe this thread. Anyone who says they don't care about the North clearly didn't live through the times I did, can't remember the Hunger Strikes, the bombs at Enniskillen and Omagh, the slaughter at Frizells Fish Shop and Greysteel, the dark nights at places like Milltown Cemetery and Loughgall. I remember them well. I think it is the most important issue on this island. I don't expect all to share my priorities, but to me it's a hell of a lot more important than traffic jams in Dublin or zoning in Lucan, or whether there's a leak in a port tunnel or we have to pay a few more cents for petrol. Yeats had it spot on about the fumbling in the greasy till.

Well said

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote:

can't remember the Hunger Strikes, the bombs at Enniskillen and Omagh, the slaughter at Frizells Fish Shop and Greysteel, the dark nights at places like Milltown Cemetery and Loughgall. I remember them well.

Its probable ..maybe as high as 70% probable with the benefit of hindsight .... that none of those things you describe would have happened if none other than Paisley himself had fallen off a cliff around 1966 and broken his bloody neck .

More than any other individual else he incited and started the troubles in 1969 . I suppose he is about to reactivate his Third Force again is he ????

From that 1981 article.

(The Then NI Secretary) ....warned that the government would not allow "private armies" to take over from the police and the army. But during the Newtownards rally, British troops were conspicuously absent and the police kept discreetly to side streets, leading to concern that the government would not be able to contain the "third force."

He never saw the irony in what "Third Force" sounds like in a thick Antrim accent either but he does not do irony.

Sangre

Deleted User wrote:

I don't believe this thread. Anyone who says they don't care about the North clearly didn't live through the times I did, can't remember the Hunger Strikes, the bombs at Enniskillen and Omagh, the slaughter at Frizells Fish Shop and Greysteel, the dark nights at places like Milltown Cemetery and Loughgall. I remember them well. I think it is the most important issue on this island. I don't expect all to share my priorities, but to me it's a hell of a lot more important than traffic jams in Dublin or zoning in Lucan, or whether there's a leak in a port tunnel or we have to pay a few more cents for petrol. Yeats had it spot on about the fumbling in the greasy till.

I don't remember and I don't care either, just like the majority of Irish youths. All we see are petty, bigotted squabbles and want no part in it.

Dirk Gently

Paisley is always going to look for excuses not to share power and to force direct rule and I seriously doubt big Ian is too worried about losing his ministerial wages. The police question is only a matter of timing. Sinn Fein know paisley will put up a barrier so they just offer him the barrier and then conveniently take the barrier down at the last minute, leaving paisley looking for more straws to clutch at.

I expect SF will accept the PSNI and put the ball back in Paisleys court. Unfortunately this is the way things are done up north. Expect conditions from hardline unionists, then play along and give them an excuse to pull out before making a "concession" at the last minute. Always a game of cat and mouse but if SF had of accepted the PSNI from the start then there would just be something else Paisley would use as an excuse. At least this way SF can control the outcome.

As much as I dislike SF they do actually play the game quite well north of the boarder when it comes to forcing movement from people who are staunchly opposed to moving, or failing any movement from unionists, SF always work it so as the unwillingness to move is coming from hardline unionists and not SF.

Orange69

It boils down to the fact that paisely is a fu*kin rascist.. full stop.. and his son is one too.. assholes!

Chakar

Orange69 wrote:

It boils down to the fact that paisely is a fu*kin rascist.. full stop.. and his son is one too.. assholes!

I don't think a smiley lessens the impact of your statement.Anyway we don't know he's a racist for sure.Any evidence?

Orange69

Heil Paisley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE0

This man makes me sick...

And i put my smileys in all my posts cuz im happy

Orange69

There is a couple of funny definitions of ian paisley on urban dicionary too.. i love the internet

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dr.+Ian+Paisley

The guy who tried to put up a realistic definition got 30 negative votes..ha ha..

oscarBravo

Orange69, if you've nothing useful to contribute, don't bother, thanks.

Sangre

Sangre wrote:

I don't remember and I don't care either, just like the majority of Irish youths.

The day Irish youths should dictate the agenda on political matters is the day Paisley and Adams should debate the merits of Diesel jeans versus Levis and the best solution for acne.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

The day Irish youths should dictate the agenda on political matters is the day Paisley and Adams should debate the merits of Diesel jeans versus Levis and the best solution for acne.

Maybe you are on to something there... Perhaps if Dr. Ian and Gerry had been dedicated followers of fashion and, dare we say it, a bit more appearence conscious like many yoofs today seem to be there would have been less violence in NI.

Maybe Dr. Ian and Gerry can go play with their xboxes and we can round up a few yoofs to take their places.

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

The day Irish youths should dictate the agenda on political matters is the day Paisley and Adams should debate the merits of Diesel jeans versus Levis and the best solution for acne.

Given your last post saying that we shouldn't forget... blah... blah.. don't know what it was like, I was there man.. I was there... blah... blah.

Don't you think Irish "youths" should be taking more interest in politics, the history that shaped them and what they can do to change them.

el tel

It's a typical Paislely/DUP tactic to throw a spanner into the works. They say something will fail...THEY make it fail...and stand back and say "I told you so". These obstacles which Paisley keeps pulling from up his slieve will keep on coming. First it was pictures of the decommissioning, then it was ignoring the IMC, now it's ridiculous oath to the rule law and order and a hugely discredited police force (who are likely to be damned in reports on collusion). Once SF have negoited this latest obstacle, the DUP will be looking for disbandment of the Army Council and then getting the IRA to hand over all their money. This will be quite ironic considering the UDA who, while still murdering, drug dealing and racketeering, are asking for £30million to disband.

The situation would actually be laughable but Paisley's antics will mean uncapped rates for Northern Ireland householders, increased water charges and continued sectarianism and racial hatred. The man is all about hate. I just wish some of the laws which put away Abu Hamza on charges of inciting murder and race hate were applied to Paisely. So much for him asking people to swear oaths to the forces of law and order.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

Given your last post saying that we shouldn't forget... blah... blah.. don't know what it was like, I was there man.. I was there... blah... blah.

So, to make your point that we should value the youth more, you respond with cynicism and a 'blah blah blah'?

ballooba wrote:

Don't you think Irish "youths" should be taking more interest in politics, the history that shaped them and what they can do to change them.

Frankly if civilians being shot and bombed within the past 10 years on this island doesn't grip the imagination, is it worth bothering?

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

So, to make your point that we should value the youth more, you respond with cynicism and a 'blah blah blah'?

Well perhaps I shouldn't stoop to your level, but your comment wasn't exactly helpful either.

Deleted User wrote:

debate the merits of Diesel jeans versus Levis and the best solution for acne.

LordSutch

So Paisley has pulled out of talks with Sinn Fein just because Adams refuses to sign-up to Policing and Law & order before going into Government!
well isnt that just a disgrace on the part of the DUP

ballooba

ArthurF wrote:

So Paisley has pulled out of talks with Sinn Fein just because Adams refuses to sign-up to Policing and Law & order before going into Government!
well isnt that just a disgrace on the part of the DUP

Actually it's McGuinness they are concerned with at the moment, given his (past?) position in the IRA.

Sangre

Deleted User wrote:

The day Irish youths should dictate the agenda on political matters is the day Paisley and Adams should debate the merits of Diesel jeans versus Levis and the best solution for acne.

I think my vote begs to differ.

Erin Go Brath

There'll never be any resolution in the north so long as Paisley is leader of the biggest party there. This guy calls himself a minister of the church, a man of God. To go around openly preaching hatred of another religion and other peoples belief systems in his rabble rousing cermons is certainly not what I would consider a man of God, far from it.

It seems to me hes blinded by pure hatred for half his fellow nordies and nearly all his fellow southies.

This guy and his bigoted old ways need to be kicked into touch, and let someone younger and more progressive with less of a chip on the shoulder take charge. Until then the North will NEVER see its own parliament.

sull

ballooba wrote:

Actually it's McGuinness they are concerned with at the moment, given his (past?) position in the IRA.

Explain, please? "They"? In what way do you think that Martin McGuinness' position might be more of a cause for concern that, say, Gerry Adams'? what do you mean by your use of the word "past"? There are an awful lot of glib and obviously very poorly informed posts on this thread. Whatever you think you have every right to think, but at least back it up with some kind of rational argument.

Conor74 was very right. The northern issue is fundamental to Irish politics, however frustrating that may be, and an understanding of it is essential for anyone who purports to engage in political debate in this country. this "i'm alright jack" attitude is something natural to most societies but seems to be pervasive in Ireland particularly. This "social responsibility" craic that most of the parties are peddling at the moment would, to a logical person, seem to suggest a challenge to that attitude. But it is clear that "social responsibility" is required most from those who have got least from that society they are supposed to hold sacred. It is an excuse to "condemn a little more and understand a little less".

I am sorry to have got on my soapbox but really it annoys me when people make such silly, empty pronouncements and sweeping dimissals.

ballooba

sull wrote:

Explain, please? "They"? In what way do you think that Martin McGuinness' position might be more of a cause for concern that, say, Gerry Adams'? what do you mean by your use of the word "past"? There are an awful lot of glib and obviously very poorly informed posts on this thread. Whatever you think you have every right to think, but at least back it up with some kind of rational argument.

They being the DUP. They see Martin McGuinness as one of the heads of the IRA, whether this is true or not. They don't want him as deputy head of government while he may have his own police force operating in certain areas. Gerry Adams is not of immediate concern because he will not be deputy head of government.

I use the word "past?" as it's not clear whether or not McGuinness is still a member of the Provos.

sull wrote:

Conor74 was very right. The northern issue is fundamental to Irish politics, however frustrating that may be, and an understanding of it is essential for anyone who purports to engage in political debate in this country.

Well Conor74 would be best advised to leave the insults to young voters out if he wants to be taken seriously.

ballooba

Sangre wrote:

I think my vote begs to differ.

Well said.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

if he wants to be taken seriously.

Conor74 knows that this is the world wide web and as such nothing should be taken that seriously anyway.

But either way let's make this thread less about me and more about the North instead and you can take up your thoughts on me through PMs.

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

Conor74 knows that this is the world wide web and as such nothing should be taken that seriously anyway.

Well what's the point in getting involved in a discussion if you don't expect people to take your viewpoint seriously. But at least we know where you stand.

Deleted User wrote:

But either way let's make this thread less about me and more about the North instead and you can take up your thoughts on me through PMs.

Eh.. no. I'll leave childish behaviour like that to northern politics. I'll move on, just now I know where you stand.

tallus

Erin Go Brath wrote:

There'll never be any resolution in the north so long as Paisley is leader of the biggest party there. This guy calls himself a minister of the church, a man of God. To go around openly preaching hatred of another religion and other peoples belief systems in his rabble rousing cermons is certainly not what I would consider a man of God, far from it.

It seems to me hes blinded by pure hatred for half his fellow nordies and nearly all his fellow southies.

This guy and his bigoted old ways need to be kicked into touch, and let someone younger and more progressive with less of a chip on the shoulder take charge. Until then the North will NEVER see its own parliament.

I totally agree with this post, the man is nothing more than a bigot.

tallus

so you're using boards.ie to come out of the closet heh fred ?

sull

ballooba wrote:

Well Conor74 would be best advised to leave the insults to young voters out if he wants to be taken seriously.

Take it up with him.

i'm interested to know what exactly you mean by childish behaviour? do you think the whole thing is a playground quarrel, started on a whim? how would it be different do you think if the same set of circumstances were at play somewhere else? please don't be quick to dismiss. there is too much of that around. what is the point in getting involved in a discussion about northern politics when you have already decided that it is all ridiculous childish behaviour?

Dr Galen

as a northerner i feel fairly qualified to speak on this having lived through the last 26 years of hate and violence at home.

yes it was terrible etc etc but the changes in the province in the past 10 years are immense. I'm talking about on the ground, with the real people. Not the minority in the political parties or the small groups who cause trouble in certain areas. tbh, most of us donlt give a fiddlers about the whole republican Vs unionism battle anymore. Sure, we all have our views on it but we have more pressing worries.

Things like rising house prices, taxes, council rates, utilities, jobs for ourselves and families, attracting inward investment and more are top of our lists. We look at Scotland and Wales, and kinda want what they have, our own legistlative assembly. Making locally based decisions on our country, not to be ruled from afar, by London?Dublin in tandem.

Whats really needed in the north in my opinion (and others I've talked to) is a new political party. Not divided on sectarian lines, but an inclusive and non-religion specific party. Be that on the left or right, that has well formed and thought out policies in health, education, justice etc. I'm telling you they would clean up in an election.

ballooba

sull wrote:

Take it up with him.

i'm interested to know what exactly you mean by childish behaviour? do you think the whole thing is a playground quarrel, started on a whim? how would it be different do you think if the same set of circumstances were at play somewhere else? please don't be quick to dismiss. there is too much of that around. what is the point in getting involved in a discussion about northern politics when you have already decided that it is all ridiculous childish behaviour?

I'm not dismissing for a moment the politics at play in Northern Ireland, this is something you keep coming back to. I actually find the dynamics in Northern Ireland particularly interesting.

Everything has to be taken in the context of what has gone before. As a person who grew up in the south and being relatively young, I agree that I don't have a particularly full understanding of the context of what has gone before. So it may be harder for me to make sense of events as they unfold, but it definitely gets easier the more you watch.

Coming from the south it is easier to look at things from the outside because I have never had one view pushed on me in particular and I can see where both sides are coming from.

ballooba

nurse_baz wrote:

yes it was terrible etc etc but the changes in the province in the past 10 years are immense. I'm talking about on the ground, with the real people. Not the minority in the political parties or the small groups who cause trouble in certain areas. tbh, most of us donlt give a fiddlers about the whole republican Vs unionism battle anymore. Sure, we all have our views on it but we have more pressing worries.

Very good point, I spent a month in Belfast in August, mostly around Sandy Row and Falls Road. Not once did I feel unsafe (well, never to the extent that I needed a change of underwear anyway) or made unwelcome. I wasn't even aware from speaking to people what their political leanings would be. it simply didn't seem to be an issue.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

Very good point, I spent a month in Belfast in August, mostly around Sandy Row and Falls Road. Not once did I feel unsafe

I felt like I was going to be lynched on Sandy Row. I know people who have been threatened and attacked there and had vehicles (with 'southern' reg plates) burned out.

LordSutch

At least Paisley is getting the business done in a "Watertight" fashion this time, as Trimble was far too feeble in his dealings with Sinn Fein's Hardball negotiations.

The way I see it is that the DUP with 'Paisley at the helm' is driving a very hard bargain indeed' & why shouldnt he' considering Sinn Fein's past history, with the UUP!

Hopefully, Paisley & the DUP will drag Sinn Fein across the finish line next spring & they can "all" finally get down to 'day to day politics' (in English)? and the Provence can tick along nicely with just the ordinary day to day headaches like Sinn Fein constantly trying to 'Force' a United ireland throught the back door, or Water Rates, or crime (dont mention the police) ..................

tallus

nurse_baz wrote:

as a northerner i feel fairly qualified to speak on this having lived through the last 26 years of hate and violence at home.

Whats really needed in the north in my opinion (and others I've talked to) is a new political party. Not divided on sectarian lines, but an inclusive and non-religion specific party. Be that on the left or right, that has well formed and thought out policies in health, education, justice etc. I'm telling you they would clean up in an election.

Would the SDLP not come under that banner? Sorry if I sound like I'm being pedantic.