Small mindedness.

Jumpy

I am starting to get really tired of the comments regarding what I eat in work in the mornings.
Why does it only seem to be this country who seems to have set "what you can eat" rules for breakfast.
Every day without fail "eww you cant eat THAT in the morning".

Ok it is egg pasta with tuna, but still. Shut up!
I have worked hard to figure out my diet so it isnt your place to comment *slap*

Aaanyway, rant over. Feeling stronger than I ever have and fat is leaving my body at a rate of knots.

Gut still wont shift much though, but the rest of me is getting impressive, and I can honestly say I have NEVER been impressed with the way I looked.

To those who think its too much hard work to stop being a fatso... it is worth it.
Less exhaustion, better skin, more confidence, my hair is even starting to get thicker.

Truly the best decision I ever made.

Heh, anyway glad I got all that out.

daveirl

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iregk

I've gotten that as well. People slagging me over what I eat and calling me a health nut. These are two guys who couldn't run a mile between them. 1 smokes and regularly coughs up more tar than whats on the road outside and the other who is 5'8 and about 95-100kg of pure fat!!!

They were slagging me one day on lunch, a kind of gang up effort. I just casually said yeah lads, I'm the one in good shape here and I'm the one running the marathon, cycling, swimming and doing triathlons. The old retort came out: "why would you want to do all that!" Neither said a word for a long time until mr smoker recently gave up and asked me what he should be eating!!!

TerrorFirmer

Actually a few weeks ago at the gym this fat slob - and I only call him such due to what he said, not insulting him personally without basis - was using the free weights and I was using the smith machine. He had 12kg each side on his bar, I had 25 each side on mine - the weights aren't really important anyway.

He sees me, and then stops his lifting and spends 10 minutes - I don't know why - talking to his friend about how the Smith machine "totally defeats the purpose" and how he can do 70kg without breaking a sweat on the smith because its so easy. Yeah, right. That's why he was doing 24kg on his bar. :rolleyes:

So I guess the relevance is that some people are so small minded that they have to find someone to almost....validate themselves in the gym, if that makes any sense.

Just a small rant of mine too, might as well get it out.

And on the topic of eating I don't ever get any kind of stick. The odd joke about lettuce and calories but nothing that can't be taken lightly...:)

Degsy

I get grief in work all the time especially for my breakfast.."eeurgh..porridge and scrambled eggs every day!",this is usually from people who reckon thier nutritional needs can be provided with a scone covered in jam.

daveirl

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Vegeta

yup get the exact same thing at work

How can you eat a tuna sandwhich for breakfast (really 10 o clock). I then tell them its my second meal of the day and they are even more shocked.

when i tell em i had a bowl of porridge made with milk, a kiwi, a banana and a protein shake at 8 o clock they cant believe i eat so much food.

I am currently not very large or the weight i can lift is not that impressive but I have changed my eating habits, started a proper routine for training and am getting plenty of rest.

I cant bench or squat my body weight (well i could probably squat it but it would be one rep) so that's my first set of goals. Increase strength.

daveirl

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TerrorFirmer

Vegeta wrote:

I cant bench or squat my body weight (well i could probably squat it but it would be one rep) so that's my first set of goals. Increase strength.

I have been doing weights - properly - for about 3 months now, had been doing minor weights before that but poorly planned and overtraining the same areas day afer day.

I can still only lift about 55kg max on the bench, which is a good 20kg off my bodyweight. And at this stage every single kg added is a challenge so I don't see myself getting there anytime soon.

Its fine for me though and progress is progress, everyone starts somewhere....what I hate is people, like my post above, overexaggerating their limits as if they have to prove they're a tough man or belittle someone else etc.

g'em

yeah, I get strange looks for the food I eat right now too...

... oh wait, hang on, that's because I do eat weir stuff atm. Who knew that cottage cheese and organic peanut butter made for such a yummy night time snack???!?

Meh, I've given up trying to explain my normal eating habits to people. If they genuinely want to know why I eat what I do then grand, I've no problem explaining. But otherwise it's a waste of time.

Vegeta

HavoK wrote:

I have been doing weights - properly - for about 3 months now, had been doing minor weights before that but poorly planned and overtraining the same areas day afer day.

I can still only lift about 55kg max on the bench, which is a good 20kg off my bodyweight. And at this stage every single kg added is a challenge so I don't see myself getting there anytime soon.

Its fine for me though and progress is progress, everyone starts somewhere....what I hate is people, like my post above, overexaggerating their limits as if they have to prove they're a tough man or belittle someone else etc.

I'm probably about the same myself. I'm 12 stone on the button which is approx 77Kg I can bench 55kg but it would be a low rep set and I can squat 60 kg but again not my working wieght.

I did a good bit of kickboxing in college about 2 years ago and purposefully kept my weight low to enter lower weight divisions, I once weighed in at 63kg and I'm 6ft. Now I am trying to improve my strength and over all body shape.

There are two things i hate, people calling me weird because of what i eat and dudes acting like the guy in Havoks post

Dragan

I find the whole department is just used to the way that I eat now. Plus, considering there is less gut and more shoulder, chest, arm and back now they can't really say anything. It's pretty funny being clearly the biggest, strongest guy in the office and having people wondering why I eat all the time.

It's kinda odd though, because everyone in work ( except the for the odd jealous dude it would seem ) is very supportive of me, and we gutted when I hurt me knee as they thought I would not be able to train.

I got some funny looks when I told them I could still train my upper body, it would just take me a little longer to get to the gym on crutches.

t-ha

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

LOL, a friend (not the working out type) happened to be with me one day when I was shopping. I went around quickly and threw a load of frozen and fresh vegetables, meat, cottage cheese & yogurt, etc. (the usual). My friend found my food choices highly amusing & strange. When I bought a litre of chocolate milk he said: "Thank God you finally bought something normal!". The odd thing is he genuinely meant that. When I pointed out what he had said, and how ridiculous it was, I think he started to question what he considered normal & I ended up doing out a meal plan for him a few months later!

I never really cared that much what people thought - it was just getting badgered all the time that got annoying so I asked people to stop. I drink out of protein shakers, wear ice-packs & eat my 'crazy' food without a second thought to be honest.

thirtyfoot

Ignorance is bliss as the man in the street knows no different. I remember when I was a kid doing athletics and we might be training the same time as the hurlers and footballers. We'd be stretching, doing drills, bounds etc and the GAA boys were looking at us as if we were soft or gay or just a bit weird. Then some inter-county team start using some "advanced" techniques like SAQ for example, and slowly this filters down through the layers and next thing you know GAA players are doing warm-ups, warm-downs, drills and other gay-type weird activity. Same applies to diet, we'll hear of the Armagh or Tyrone or the Dubs focusing on their diets and then the GAA man in street will start thinking that if the boys are focusing on their diets it must be important. Its all about education or coaching or lack of it.

A related aside is that I've noticed that GAA teams in general have really leapt forward when it come to training techniques etc in comparison to soccer(Rugby has always been the more progressive). The amount of kids training for GAA who I see focusing on sthe speed and sharpeness type drills etc is huge, I reckon in 10 years we'll have a generation of speed/strength demons in whatever sport they choose, thats if they are not fat and obese on their couch (whcih will be mainly thanks to the Govt insistence on filtering away almost 30% of the sporting budget on Horse Racing - slightly off topic but does fall under Govt small mindedness).

daveirl

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tribulus

I'll jump in as well

it's gotten to the stage where my regular group of friends barely bat an eyelid and just say "tuna and rice again huh", so no problems there.

I also don't mind the funny looks on the DART or in college when I'm eating somewhere.

It's the occasional person or acquaintance who seems to have to try and "convert" me back to "normal" food that gets to me and of course they're usually the fattest mess around and use lines like "i'm never going to deny myself" to justify looking like a sack of sh1t. :rolleyes:

As has been mentioned already if someone was genuinely interested in why I eat what I do I'd have all the time in the world to explain things and hopefully convert them to normal food!

joker77

My mother and father are both on my case at the moment about Creatine.

It all started a couple of months ago when my uncle was in the house painting, and noticed a tub of it in my room. He used to be a boxer, and footballer, and asked my Ma who was taking it. He then raised an eyebrow and said that they don't really know the side effects. She of course thought that seeing he knows about fitness, he knew everything there was to know about Creatine.

My mother is very easily influenced by the latest scare-mongering, so tried lecturing me about it. I know she's only a bit worried and has my best interests at heart, but it's annoying to be lectured by someone who knows nothing about what they're talking about.

Of course, she was listening to Gerry Ryan to hear that doctor on about how it leads on to steroids, and my Da gave me the Evening Herald opened on the page where Tony Ward had his article "Just Say No" to creatine. I read it, then asked him had he read it, he hadn't. What the f*ck?

tribulus

best thing to do would be print off a load of journals showing the effectiveness or more importantly the safety of creatine supplementation - in particular the *lack of* kidney damage it does and shove it in their face!

Seriously though just talk to them about the facts - it's in your body naturally, it's in red meat, your body needs it, etc. while your at it tell them they eat the same stuff that's in your protein tub (kind of) that'll shock 'em

g'em

Here's the most recent article I could find about the safety of creatine, taken from Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology, Vol 45 Issue 3 (2006) Shao and Hathcock. (yes, I'm a nerd )

The Abstract....

Creatine monohydrate (creatine) has become an increasingly popular ingredient in dietary supplements, especially sports nutrition products. A large body of human and animal research suggests that creatine does have a consistent ergogenic effect, particularly with exercises or activities requiring high intensity short bursts of energy. Human data are primarily derived from three types of studies: acute studies, involving high doses (20 g/d) with short duration (1 week), chronic studies involving lower doses (3–5 g/d) and longer duration (1 year), or a combination of both. Systematic evaluation of the research designs and data do not provide a basis for risk assessment and the usual safe Upper Level of Intake (UL) derived from it unless the newer methods described as the Observed Safe Level (OSL) or Highest Observed Intake (HOI) are utilized. The OSL risk assessment method indicates that the evidence of safety is strong at intakes up to 5 g/d for chronic supplementation, and this level is identified as the OSL. Although much higher levels have been tested under acute conditions without adverse effects and may be safe, the data for intakes above 5 g/d are not sufficient for a confident conclusion of long-term safety

... which basically says the authors couldn't find any notable safety risk with small (<5g) doses of creatine over long periods of time (a year)

And taken from later in the journal article:

Scientific evidence related to safety:
Media reports of links between creatine use and muscle strains, muscle cramps, heat intolerance, and other side effects are not supported by the scientific literature. Studies conducted in athletes and military personal indicate a substantial level safety of both short- and long-term creatine use in healthy adults (Poortmans and Francaux, 1999, Robinson et al., 2000, Bennett et al., 2001, Greenwood et al., 2003a, Greenwood et al., 2003b and Kreider et al., 2003). Concerns about high dose creatine usage causing kidney damage are based solely on a total of two published case reports in which one of the affected individuals was suffering from existing underlying renal disease (Pritchard and Kalra, 1998 and Koshy et al., 1999). Both comprehensive literature reviews and expert panels have maintained that there is no conclusive evidence to support the notion that creatine may adversely affect kidney function in healthy individuals (Poortmans and Francaux, 2000, Terjung et al., 2000, Farquhar and Zambraski, 2002, Yoshizumi and Tsourounis, 2004 and Pline and Smith, 2005).

If you have access to Pubmed or ScienceDirect you should find the full article there.

ruprect

joker77 wrote:

He then raised an eyebrow and said that they don't really know the side effects.

I have a mate who came up with the same comment on side effects. He was telling me this and saying, "you must call up tomorrow and tell me more about protein "(he was interested in protein), he didn't want to talk then as we were in a pub and he was so pissed he reckoned he wouldnt remember the conversation! Smokes cigs and drinks like a fish, both of which he does know some of the side effects of, yet is worried about a sports supplement!

The statement "the side effects are unknown" can be said of ANY substance on the planet since there are an infinite amount of tests that can be done.

I think the whole mythology stems from people fear of powders with weird names, beware of the evil drug peddlar.
-Micko pulled a muscle last week.
-Isnt he on that creatine stuff?
-Yep
-Thats what caused it so! couldnt possibly be not warming up or anything else.

daveirl

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J.S. Pill

Jumpy wrote:

Every day without fail "eww you cant eat THAT in the morning".

yep,

This girl in work saw me chewing on a plain chicken breast out of my lunch box and just had to point out how odd it was for me to be eating the said food so early in the morning. Now I didn't say "oh I need to eat this sh*t coz I want to look like He-man baby, wanna touch my pecs??" coz I would have sounded like a bit of a poser so I just said I really really like chicken.

Turns out she's a vegan so her opinion really doesn't count

g'em

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

indeed, it's statistically proven that hearsay is a significant factor on the effects of protein and/ or creatine powders on the health of the human kidney (P < 0.0001). I just ran a Chi-squared test on it to be sure and whaddya know, dave is actually right. I'm now off to burn my heretical science journals...

brianthebard

I was under the impression that overdosing on creatine could have ill-effects. How much would you have to take to be considered overdosing?

Sangre

50mg injected directly into your jugular.

iregk

The only thing I'd say in relation to the study. Now this is from someone who is looking for every reason to have full faith in Creatine which is happening.

1 year in medical case study is not a long term study. Thats a very short term. 10 years is what you would class as long term.

thirtyfoot

joker77 wrote:

He used to be a boxer, and footballer, and asked my Ma who was taking it. He then raised an eyebrow and said that they don't really know the side effects. She of course thought that seeing he knows about fitness, he knew everything there was to know about Creatine.

If he thinks creatine is dodgy he then hasn't a clue about fitness. Thats the problem with many former athletes or sport people or even coaches, they do things or believe things because their former coach who was a legend told them or such and such a guy told them or they reckoned a raw egg and 12 hard miles on the road first thing in the morning followed by a rub down with a bit of poteen will sort ya. In reality if they are a good coach or fitness expert they should question everything and justify everything by doing their own research or education, like many people on this board have done. I've been taking creatine on off for 10 years and my willy still works, kidneys are grand and when its a full moon I still don't get the urge to go out wreak havoc and wake up naked in the zoo.

rubadub

brianthebard wrote:

I was under the impression that overdosing on creatine could have ill-effects. How much would you have to take to be considered overdosing?

Overdosing on ANYTHING has ill-effects (not having a go at you, I would also like to know this, though I would not go above the 5g per day anyway.)

Other people mentioned how doctors warned them, yet nobody mentioned dosage, this is crazy, especially for so called doctors. People view them as all-knowing gods. They are simply mechanics for the body, getting their info from books, possibly picked up wrong or reading incorrect articles and coming to their own conclusions. If red wine was rarely drank you could imagine one of these doctors on gerry ryan "don't touch the stuff, your liver will be destroyed after one sip, braincells will be destroyed, you will go into a rage and beat the crap out of your wife and kids and lose your job", yet they would neglect to say a glass a day is good for health (wouldnt have the phone lines hopping).

daveirl

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iregk

While we are on the topic of eating habits I thought I'd ask the following. I'm looking to see whats the best mid morning snack. Have breakfast and lunch but inbetween about 10:30 like most I have a mid morning snack. Any got any ideas whats best to have? I was on wholegrain brown bread with tuna but I cannot stand tuna. It smells like dogfood and tasts like crap. It made me sick so I'm open to other suggestions. I've heard a lot say peanut butter but this tends to be very high in fat.

daveirl

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Vegeta

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

can you recommend a brand or a store to buy it from??

I would so eat a peanut butter and tuna sandwich mmmmmmm!

g'em

Vegeta wrote:

can you recommend a brand or a store to buy it from??

I would so eat a peanut butter and tuna sandwich mmmmmmm!

steer well clear of any mass-market Peanut Butter- check the label on any of the ones in the supermarkets and you'll see it's full of hydrogenated fats, added salts and sugars and preservatives.

Any good health food shop will have natural PB- the lable should say peanuts and maybe salt- I know the Meridian label does their crunchy PB with salt and the smooth without. You can also get hazelnut butter, almond butter and (droooool) cashew butter

Oh and PB and tuna is very, very tasty- I have it as a night time snack if I'm out of cottage cheese

Vegeta

cool i will drop into a health store on the way home and try and get some as i love the stuff. I love it on lightly toasted wholemeal brown bread.

I am now starving just thinking about peanut butter sandwiches

rubadub

Has anybody seen low-fat peanut butter anywhere. Peanuts are pressed to make peanut oil so the left over stuff should be cheap enough.

tesco do it, but I cant see any nutritional values.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/food/tesco-low-fat-peanut-butter/423048/

MicraBoy

This really gets on my wick. Why in the name of all that is holy can you not buy peanut butter that isn't laden with hydrogenated fats in Tesco?

Thumbs up for the Meridian brand. Ingredients: Roasted peanuts, salt.

g'em

rubadub wrote:

Has anybody seen low-fat peanut butter anywhere. Peanuts are pressed to make peanut oil so the left over stuff should be cheap enough.

tesco do it, but I cant see any nutritional values.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/food/tesco-low-fat-peanut-butter/423048/

I can guarantee you it's full of sh*te even without seeing the label. It'll be full of preservatives and fillers. Nuts have a lot of fat, simple as. To try and make a 'low-fat' version means it'll have been water down and filled with gunk. Stick to natural, whole PB, just use it sparingly. Besides which the fats in nuts are good fats. If you want to get really healthy about it, opt for almond or hazelnut butter which have better Omega 3: Omega 6 ratios.

'Low-fat' anything tends to be highly processed.

daveirl

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Vegeta

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Even low fat milk???

g'em

Vegeta wrote:

Even low fat milk???

low-fat milk is pretty ok. In fact low-fat dairy tends to be alright. Consuming lower-fat dairy has been linked to reduced risk of Type II diabetes (but then you can argue that's due to an overall reduction in calorie and sugar intake) and a reduction in high blood pressure (maybe somthing to do with the hgiher potassium levels and lower sodium in low-fat milk and yoghurt? that's just a guess though). With skimmed milk you get most of the protein without the fat or sugars, and low-fat yoghurt is ok so long as it has no added sugar. By nature yohgurt is quite low in fat anyway so unless you're being super-careful you can stick to whole, live natural yoghurt.

With low-fat cheeses though there tends to be a good bit of added salt and/ or sugar for taste.

But really by 'low-fat' foods I mean processed ready-meals, bars, biscuits etc. If you look at the nutritional labels they're jam packed with extra sugar and salt for flavouring and preservatives to increase tehir shelf life or keep them from perishing.

joker77

g'em wrote:

steer well clear of any mass-market Peanut Butter- check the label on any of the ones in the supermarkets and you'll see it's full of hydrogenated fats, added salts and sugars and preservatives.

Any good health food shop will have natural PB- the lable should say peanuts and maybe salt- I know the Meridian label does their crunchy PB with salt and the smooth without. You can also get hazelnut butter, almond butter and (droooool) cashew butter

Oh and PB and tuna is very, very tasty- I have it as a night time snack if I'm out of cottage cheese

Sounds like the Kelkin Peanut Butter I've been munching on the last few months isn't the Mae West to be eating then?

iregk

I think also what a lot of people should be aware of is this. Lets say that your not doing as gem says and eating mainly out of a health food shop but that you are getting your shopping almost exclusively in dunnes or tesco, which in fairness is about 99% of the people in the country. If you go through the course of your natural day and have your meals at usual times and dont add any salt what so ever to your food you will still have had about 125% of your RDA for Salt!!!

This is due to the amount of salt that gets added to food when its being made.

g'em

'Processed' peanut butters will commonly contain 70-90% actual nuts the rest being made up of salt, sugar and hydrogenated oils (to prolong shelf life). Check the label- if it has anything other than peanuts and salt switch to natural PB. It may sound a bit extremem, but honestly, hydrogenated fats are naaasty for your body

Cravez

joker77 wrote:

My mother and father are both on my case at the moment about Creatine.

It all started a couple of months ago when my uncle was in the house painting, and noticed a tub of it in my room. He used to be a boxer, and footballer, and asked my Ma who was taking it. He then raised an eyebrow and said that they don't really know the side effects. She of course thought that seeing he knows about fitness, he knew everything there was to know about Creatine.

My mother is very easily influenced by the latest scare-mongering, so tried lecturing me about it. I know she's only a bit worried and has my best interests at heart, but it's annoying to be lectured by someone who knows nothing about what they're talking about.

Tell me about it m8 im in the EXACT same boat as you, my parents went spare when i just mentioned creatine, i didnt even say i was gonna buy it or take it but the second mentioned creatine they said " WHAT!? are you taking THAT stuff? ill BREAK your legs if you are! " of course i just sat back and actually suprised and shocked at their reaction. I tried to explain it to them what creatine actually is and how its a natural substance but the reply from my mother was " People have died from taking creatine! " while shes sitting back puffing on her cigarette

In fact nothing good comes out of their mouth about my training, i havent heard one good compliment or any bit of support. They have focused on all the negative and frankly bulls**t aspects of weight training such as:

" When you get older its all going to turn into fat " - yeah if your a steroid user

" Your going to have poor & weak joints " - uh huh? so why am i stretching and taking cod liver and flax seed oil? just for the CRAIC!?

" Women find being big and muscley is disgusting " - quite a generalisation there, and i dont plan on being the next ronnie coleman.

" Why are you taking that protein stuff? it doesnt look like your getting bigger " - this of course as any of you would, piss the living ****e out of you. I had to tell them its not a quick step process, its gonna be years until i compete.

" Doing that sort of stuff has a bench life, by the time your in your thirties you will have become too old for it " - WTF!???

Still however even though my own parents havent shown any interest in it i still continue on and train hard, im doing it for myself and no one else. And yes iv gotten those comments about food as well and saying it was my 3rd meal in the day at 1 o clock in the afternoon

By the way sorry for the long post, just needed to get that out.

joker77

Jaysus Michael - some rant alright! ha ha

Sounds like you have a lot to contend with. I know where you're coming from, I feel they've both got a bit of a neck trying to lecture me on anything to do with nutrition, seeing what they eat some of the time. They're making a bit of an effort though, brown rice is the staple for dinner these days and they're eating more fish, but because of seeing me eat both nearly every day.

Michael Cravez wrote:

...In fact nothing good comes out of their mouth about my training, i havent heard one good compliment or any bit of support. They have focused on all the negative and frankly bulls**t aspects of weight training...

That's not good. I can understand this:

Michael Cravez wrote:

"Why are you taking that protein stuff? it doesnt look like your getting bigger "

I've gotten that one alright, freaks me out as I've been trying really hard + training really hard, so for someone to basically say it's doing you no good and making no difference (when I half think that myself sometimes with the lack of progress), it p*sses me right off

Michael Cravez wrote:

By the way sorry for the long post, just needed to get that out.

No problems - the purpose of the thread is to vent a little!

rubadub

Michael Cravez wrote:

" WHAT!? are you taking THAT stuff? ill BREAK your legs if you are! " " People have died from taking creatine! " while shes sitting back puffing on her cigarette

Next time she serves you up some roast beef or steak as her if she is going to break your legs if you eat it

Michael Cravez wrote:

" When you get older its all going to turn into fat " - yeah if your a steroid user

" Doing that sort of stuff has a bench life, by the time your in your thirties you will have become too old for it " - WTF!???

Has she heard of schwarzenegger?

" Women find being big and muscley is disgusting " - quite a generalisation there, and i dont plan on being the next ronnie coleman.

" Why are you taking that protein stuff? it doesnt look like your getting bigger "

That is exactly it, she thinks after a few weeks you should be looking like a pro BBer which I would think many women do not find attractive, thats why it looks like you're "not getting bigger", just like why a lot of women are afraid to lift weights.

You should print out one of the 1000's of pages that have a list of common myths & misconceptions and leave it lying around the house.

t-ha

Michael Cravez wrote:

Still however even though my own parents havent shown any interest in it i still continue on and train hard, im doing it for myself and no one else.

Fair play, I like the whole online training community thing for just that reason - a bunch of people who get what you're doing/talking about.

Degsy

You just cant win.I was out on a date a while ago and the girl said "are you sure you're not taking steroids?You're shoulders are too big for the rest of you!"..if she hadnt meant it in an insulting way i would've been flattered but no.Ten years ago people used to say "ooh look how skinny you are,you should lift weights and build yourself up!!".My mother keeps saying "dont get any bigger,you're fine the way you are" and two years ago she used to say "look how fat you're after getting,it doesnt suit you!"
AArrrgh!

g'em

meh, trust me, you guys all have it easy. At least it's a semi-accepted thing for you to do. Try being a girl who lifts, drinks protein shakes and takes creatine. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people mutter under their breath that I must be on gear when I'm in the gym.

justsomebloke

g'em wrote:

meh, trust me, you guys all have it easy. At least it's a semi-accepted thing for you to do. Try being a girl who lifts, drinks protein shakes and takes creatine. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people mutter under their breath that I must be on gear when I'm in the gym.

eh, that is more because you are probably one of the best female power lifters in the country (and you don't even do power lifting training:eek: ) I am sure a lot of the top ranked male powerlifter's in the country go through the same, with people thinking they are on gear when they are not.

Dragan

Funnily enough i had the old "perception of gear use" chat with a chap earlier who NO ONE seems to believe is natural. At the end of the day , people will always think what they want and we can never change that I suppose.

At the end of the day, all you can do is take it as a compliment. They assume that to reach your standards you needed gear....all that tells me abou them is they feel THEY need gear to reach a standard that you have reached natural.

So **** them, they have no vision or drive.