Fermoy By-pass being by-passed?

mike65

*

Mike.

*not actual road.

Recon

Not surprising really. I think it's a stupid idea to put a toll on that road. You'd ask the question, why are we paying road tax when we have to pay again to drive on them?

Chris_533976

Whats sickening about the Fermoy bypass is that you pay the toll going from Cork - Dublin, drive the 17km, then get ejected back onto cart track again at the end of it.

A toll is one thing, but dont screw people over till the whole Dublin - Cork scheme is built.

corktina

I'm quite happy to pay tolls....these roads are built with private finace and they have to get a return on it dont they? The alternative is for the long suffering tax payer to pay out more and and have the NRA build them....

.just think how many roads you drive on for free that the EU funded....

1huge1

Chris_533976 wrote:

Whats sickening about the Fermoy bypass is that you pay the toll going from Cork - Dublin, drive the 17km, then get ejected back onto cart track again at the end of it.

A toll is one thing, but dont screw people over till the whole Dublin - Cork scheme is built.

as long as the toll dosnt increase when the whole road is done i dont mind to much though i see your point

Wishbone Ash

Recon wrote:

why are we paying road tax when we have to pay again to drive on them?

You don't have to pay. All tolled roads must have an alternative untolled road (usually the old route) AFAIK.

Recon

corktina wrote:

I'm quite happy to pay tolls....these roads are built with private finace and they have to get a return on it dont they? The alternative is for the long suffering tax payer to pay out more and and have the NRA build them....

.just think how many roads you drive on for free that the EU funded....

That's fair enough I suppose. The only probelm is that after the people who paid for the road get all of their money back (plus a little extra) will they get rid of the toll? I seriously doubt it.

Recon

Wishbone Ash wrote:

You don't have to pay. All tolled roads must have an alternative untolled road (usually the old route) AFAIK.

what does AFAIK mean?

corktina

as far as I know it means........damn cant remember....

daymobrew

Recon wrote:

You'd ask the question, why are we paying road tax when we have to pay again to drive on them?

You don't pay road tax, it's vehicle tax, but tolls are frustrating.

Lennoxschips

we pay tax for buses and trains too, yet those aren't free to ride either

still, at least the footpaths are free

westtip

Lennoxschips wrote:

we pay tax for buses and trains too, yet those aren't free to ride either

still, at least the footpaths are free

Good point how have pedestrians got away with it for so long - there should be a new tax on shoes - a bit like vehicle tax, a little sticker or stamp on the side of every shoe; the design of the emblem could be franchised out in a PPP - so for example if Nike wanted their tick on every shoe they could pay for the honour, and then we could bring in the shoe police to carefully watch every shoe, Cameras at ankle level could be placed at strategic pedestrian crossings or pedestrian thoroughfares like O'Connell bridge or Grafton Street - (which of course will become a tolled pedestrianised walkway sold for 1000 years to NTR- at a "very beneficial price to the public" Mr Cullen will say when he launches the scheme) Offenders will be pulled in on the other side of the crossings and have their shoes confiscated - so the public can see them shamed into having to walk in their stocking feet.

Better be careful though - if Martin Cullen is reading this post he might actually implement it......

Jimmy the cat

Wishbone Ash wrote:

You don't have to pay. All tolled roads must have an alternative untolled road (usually the old route) AFAIK.

The real frustration with this "alternative" is that they have reduced the speed limit to 80km so there's a 50% difference now between the old road and the new road.
It's amazing: when the old road was packed with cars and trucks it was safe to travel at 100km/h now that it is very quiet and your risk of accident is greatly reduced the wise people in Cork County council have decided to drop the speed limit to 80km/h.
Would it be cynical to suggest that while there is indeed an alternative route, the authorities do their best to "encourage" payment of the toll?

Wishbone Ash

Jimmy the cat wrote:

the wise people in Cork County council

It's not just Cork Co Co. It's standard practise all over the country. The old N1 dual carriageway near me is now the R132 with a 80kph limit.

westtip wrote:

....there should be a new tax on shoes...........
..........Better be careful though - if Martin Cullen is reading this post he might actually implement it......

John Bruton tried that in 1981(?) and it brought down the Government!

D'Peoples Voice

Jimmy the cat wrote:

It's amazing: when the old road was packed with cars and trucks it was safe to travel at 100km/h now that it is very quiet and your risk of accident is greatly reduced the wise people in Cork County council have decided to drop the speed limit to 80km/h.

I believe it's called "helping the traffic flow quicker".
Could you imagine the economic effect on Cork's economy by reducing people's speed down to such a low limit over such a long distance. Thankfully IMHO local government in Cork took the difficult decision and put the economy first.
It's the same with the M50 during road works, the Safety council et al request the speed limit to be reduced to 60 km/h, but do you think the authorities put a Gatso van on the M50 to police this.
No, because they want the traffic to flow. What they do is put a garda on a motorbike on Ballymount bridge to track people travelling at VERY dangerous speeds northbound given there are roadworks going on. It's called an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Recon

daymobrew wrote:

You don't pay road tax, it's vehicle tax, but tolls are frustrating.

Well that kind of sucks. Especially since you have to pay such a high tax when you buy your car in the first place.

And nobody has yet commented about them not getting rid of the toll after the road is paid for! In ten years that road is still going to have the fecking toll and the road will have been long paid for.

corktina

would you invest your money in something and then give it back after 20 years.....????

mike65

The usual toll period is about 25 years is'nt it?

Mike.

Recon

I don't expect them to just get there money back, they're obviously take a bit extra. But after that I'd expect them to get rid of the toll.

Wishbone Ash

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

It's the same with the M50 during road works, the Safety council et al request the speed limit to be reduced to 60 km/h, but do you think the authorities put a Gatso van on the M50

GATSO vans are there regularly. There have been a few posts here from those who were caught exceeding the speed limit in that 60kph zone.

sweeper4

corktina wrote:

I'm quite happy to pay tolls....these roads are built with private finace and they have to get a return on it dont they? The alternative is for the long suffering tax payer to pay out more and and have the NRA build them....

.just think how many roads you drive on for free that the EU funded....

These roads are built with a percentage contribution from both private finance and state funds. The long suffering tax payer actually pays out much more under these schemes. The exchequer benefits from not having to front up the full cost of the project so it looks good on the books in the present.
However, over the full term of the toll contract, we the long suffering tax payers pay a multiple of what the original cost would have been if funded totally by the state in the first place.

murphaph

Indeed, remember too that the land is usually purchased by the state up front! The private operator just builds the road on top of that land and then get tolling rights on it. It seems while most national governments are shying away from PPPs, we are leaning more on them!

Bards

Summary of Fermoy By Pass Costings
============================
For infrastructure with an estimated cost of €320m, excluding land/planning/preparatory design costs, the State will pay €80m (excluding land/preparatory costs) throughout the 3 year construction period along with a further €40m during the operational period. The State will recoup monies by means of revenue share, rates and taxes.



Taken from
http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/ProjectTracker/M8RathcormacFermoyBypass/

spacetweek

Recon wrote:

That's fair enough I suppose. The only probelm is that after the people who paid for the road get all of their money back (plus a little extra) will they get rid of the toll? I seriously doubt it.

I suppose it depends on whether the toll is intended as a congestion charge (M50) or as a way for the company who built the road to get their cash back? If it's a congestion charge it won't ever disappear no matter how much cash the operator makes.