Buying and selling cars for money!

mike65

I dunno if this is me just musing but I've got a stash of cash and was wondering about using it to make some money. What better then trading the odd car now and then (or more often depending if I'm any good at it).

Does anyone do this sort of thing here - you know a car in the drive/outside the house advertised in the freebies/interweb looking to make a anywhere from a few hundred to a couple of grand. If you have any nuggets of wisdom/views please share.

The kind of thing I have in mind is cars in the 2000-3000 area, decent machinery 6-8 years old which can be turned around with a service, tidying up, maybe a few new parts with an NCT.

Mad or money-making?

Mike.

Wishbone Ash

AFAIK Mike and I'm open to correction, if you sell more than 6 in one year, you are by definition a 'trader'.

Anan1

It all depends on three things:

1. How good you are at judging cars.

2. How good you are at finding cheap cars.

3. How good you are at selling.

colm_mcm

It's mostly about picking the right cars, there are certain cars that will always sell, and can be bought fairly reasonably.

ninty9er

Judging on my dad's last car, there's a loada cars out there that look like ****e and have a farmyard inside that can be picked up cheap and made look decent with a few days elbow grease.

The mechanicals on the other hand is for another day

imeddyhobbs

You banned one of my aliases for selling cars here mike but you let me back in when i explained i was not a trader,just dabbeling.

Trying to make a few bob from buying and selling cars is possible but you have to be prepared to let your spare cash sit out in your driveway for weeks on end,maybe months.You also will have to pay for advertising,use free advertising too but there are some burdens that come with that.get a phone no just for the car sales!you will get 20 phone calls before someone comes to look at the car.

When we were buying cars we normally paid between €1500 - €2500
average return was maybe €500 but dont forget that you will have a lot of work to do with most cars in just getting them clean and shiny,dont try to sell a car with bald tyres,they will look for ton off for that!

Hope this has been of some use and i will say one more thing and that is that car sales are a seasonal thing!december,jan,feb.

peasant

tax implications aside ...what about regress?

Assuming you don't sell these cars as "your cars" i.e. you're not the registered owner and your just trading them through, doing a bit of polishing up while youre at it, so not your regular private sale ...that kinda makes you a "trader", doesn't it?

Further assuming you miss something fairly essential mechanically during the "polishing up" and the car blows up underneath the buyer on his way home (or even worse ...has a mechanical failure and somebody gets injured or even killed) ...aren't you up the creek without a paddle then?

imeddyhobbs

peasant wrote:

tax implications aside ...what about regress?

Assuming you don't sell these cars as "your cars" i.e. you're not the registered owner and your just trading them through, doing a bit of polishing up while youre at it, so not your regular private sale ...that kinda makes you a "trader", doesn't it?

Further assuming you miss something fairly essential mechanically during the "polishing up" and the car blows up underneath the buyer on his way home (or even worse ...has a mechanical failure and somebody gets injured or even killed) ...aren't you up the creek without a paddle then?

If someone has an accident in a car that you sold them its not the sellers problem,anyone that drives a car on an open road has to make sure its roadworthy.Even if you have sold a car and the new buyer has an accident when waiting for transfer of ownership you will not be in anyway responsible,the important thing is that when you sell a car send the transfer of ownership form away asap,(ie the same day)!! they are slow to process it but as soon as it is received it is logged.

Silvera

Having worked in the motor trade from '89 to '96 (and being 'into' cars before and since) I can tell you that there IS money to be made in cars provided you can source them at the right price(s) (not necessarily auctions!) AND know how to examine them for mechanical and (possible) crash damage.

However you have to consider things like insurance cover for test drives, being stopped by Gardai on test drives if the car(s) have no current NCT, Road Tax and getting the cars home in the first place (do you have access to a car transporter or towing dolly?) .....and also possible income tax implications.

In the UK the authorities make it much easier for 'part time' cars dealers. For example, anybody can apply for Trade Plates for a six month trial period (after which you must show proof of dealing in cars) and then you are issued with them permanently.
Unlike in Ireland where you need - a Rates-paying premises, a VAT number etc in order to get plates.

The UK authorities have a realistic view of the matter.......they realise there are 'part time' cars dealers out there and prefer to allow them to comply with the law by making it relatively easy to get Trade Plates.

Some 'food for thought' mike65!

Silvera
(Ex-Panel Beater)

imeddyhobbs

Silvera wrote:

Having worked in the motor trade from '89 to '96 (and being 'into' cars before and since) I can tell you that there IS money to be made in cars provided you can source them at the right price(s) (not necessarily auctions!) AND know how to examine them for mechanical and (possible) crash damage.

However you have to consider things like insurance cover for test drives, being stopped by Gardai on test drives if the car(s) have no current NCT, Road Tax and getting the cars home in the first place (do you have access to a car transporter or towing dolly?) .....and also possible income tax implications.

In the UK the authorities make it much easier for 'part time' cars dealers. For example, anybody can apply for Trade Plates for a six month trial period (after which you must show proof of dealing in cars) and then you are issued with them permanently.
Unlike in Ireland where you need - a Rates-paying premises, a VAT number etc in order to get plates.

The UK authorities have a realistic view of the matter.......they realise there are 'part time' cars dealers out there and prefer to allow them to comply with the law by making it relatively easy to get Trade Plates.

Some 'food for thought' mike65!

Silvera
(Ex-Panel Beater)

good points!
transporting cars was a problem for us at first but our insurance allowed us automatic cover to drive any car up to 1.4 pet with NCT,conditions were full licence,over 28,no claims!and my old man knows the broker very well!

milltown

For the vintage you are looking at, the way to go is approaching main dealers to buy their 2nd hand stock. Main dealers want to have a yard full of their own brand cars, new and used and none more than four years old. Hence, when Joe and Josie Bloggs come in to trade in their five year old Astra for a new Focus the salesman knows their car is worth say €8k but he's not going to sell it so he reckons on knocking it out to a trader for €5-6k and prices the deal accordingly.

I have a brother working in a dealership and I'm constantly amazed, when I ask him about certain cars, what he tells me he'll "trade" them at. It puts in perspective the sort of overheads the main dealers have to cover.

mike65

Good feedback folks, esp from Silvera. If I got into this I'd proberly not invest in transportation and would simply collect a car under my own insurance (transfered for the day), that keeps overheads down to near zero and a bus/taxi fair. As said it would only be one car at a time stuff and transfering ownership to myself would mean I was effectivly like a regular punter selling his car. If things got serious then I'd call Wexford Insurances are always looking for auto-related business in South-East Trader and do things more 'professionaly'

Mike.

Larry David

Anan1 wrote:

It all depends on three things:

1. How good you are at judging cars.

2. How good you are at finding cheap cars.

3. How good you are at selling.

Wrong - it's down to these 3 things:

1) Whether you can make money from it.

2) Whether you sell the cars for higher than you bought them.

3) How much money you make by doing it, and how often.

Wishbone Ash

Re: the transporter and towing dolly mentioned by Silvera.

If you have a category B licence you can only utilise it where the total gross vehicle weight of the combination is less than 3,500kg. Otherwise you will require a C1 licence. Two large cars and a transporter/dolly may weigh more than 3,500kgs.

Volvoboy

There is a decent few quid to be made out there my dad has done it for years just look for 'Bread and butter car' (i.e run of the mill cars) toyota's nissans fords, don go for the merc's bm's or lexus, harder to shift any nobody really wants a big car these days, my current car a 99 almera i bought if for €2,250 fully loaded all it needed was a valet which i did myself repair to the quarter and bumper and a service, now it looks mint and theyre going for €4k-€5k on carzone.


-VB-

colm_mcm

Volvoboy wrote:

theyre going for €4k-€5k on carzone.

-VB-

They're ASKING €4k-€5k

Silvera

imeddyhobbs wrote:

good points!
transporting cars was a problem for us at first but our insurance allowed us automatic cover to drive any car up to 1.4 pet with NCT,conditions were full licence,over 28,no claims!and my old man knows the broker very well!

When you say "our insurance allowed us...to drive any car..." do you mean that you used the 'driving other cars' cover which is included on most private car ins policies?


Some people are of the mistaken belief that this cover actually allows them to drive any car that "does not belong to them" - THIS IS NOT THE CASE!

The 'driving other cars' cover only allows you to drive another car provided -

A. It does not belong to you (i.e. not registered in your name, or otherwise belonging to you)

B. The 'other car' must be also be insured* (e.g. your brothers/sisters/uncles/friends etc own policy on the car)

C. It must be taxed and NCT'd - as is the case with any car on the road.


* People most often (mistakenly!) believe that the 'other car' doesn't need to have it's own policy.


mike65,

Re transferring ownership into your own name, two points -

A. People viewing the car(s) would be suspicious as to why you are selling the car(s) so soon after buying them/it

B. Your name would regularly be passing through the tax office/revenue system.

I'm not saying this should put you off, just things to bear in mind.

Also, Trade Insurance costs c.€1000 minium to my knowledge, so you would need good profits to justify it.


You may be interested to know that there is a specialist magazine available for part-time car dealers. It is called 'Home Trader' and is published by Kelsey Publishing ......same people/editor who produce 'Car Mechanics' magazine.

However, it is only available to UK residents, so you would need a UK address to get it. It costs £40 per year.

(I would also like to get it but don't have a UK address to do so)

Go to www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk .....which also has a great forum incl an excellent 'Trade Talk' section which I often use.

Silvera.

mike65

www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk is a good magazine I used to buy it alot when running cheap bangers. Cheers for the trade insurance pricing, thats not so bad all things considered. Point taken on alerting tax poeple!

Mike.

bo-bo

Most fellas doing this kind of trading operate on fairly tight margins ( 50 - 400 euros). I cycle through a fair few cars, between myself and my brothers we always have at least one car up for sale outside the house. I have to stress though, I only do this to supplement my automotive addiction - I rarely "make a illing". I look at it more from the point of view that if I manage some kind of profit its offset by my next purchase - like having a free car for a few months.

my two cents worth, you would need to have a relatively large turnover to make a living from it, but as a supplement to the day job - its brilliant

damo605

Volvoboy wrote:

going for €4k-€5k on carzone.
-VB-

First step is forget about carzone prices
Don't forget there is a risk with every car you sell - t/belt snaps or g/box goes wallop within 3 months they can come back to ya.
As you're into cars it could be an satisfying and interesting hobby and there's always a few bob to be made with the right purchase, bit of experience and finding the right buyer.
Funnily enough, today, a guy (A really honest, decent bloke) in the trade told me that when he started up first (10 plus years ago) he was told the only people who make a really good living at the game were crooks... He agrees

Del2005

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Re: the transporter and towing dolly mentioned by Silvera.

If you have a category B licence you can only utilise it where the total gross vehicle weight of the combination is less than 3,500kg. Otherwise you will require a C1 licence. Two large cars and a transporter/dolly may weigh more than 3,500kgs.

I always asumed that the heaviest you could tow on a B license was 750kg for the trailer or 3500kg for the combo. As if it's 3500kg for the combo then you could be in very dangerous territory if towing with a small car.

(If you hold a category B licence and wish to tow a trailer you may do so provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500 kg or
(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg.
If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you must hold a category EB licence.

The holder of a driving licence in category C1, C, D1 or D may tow a trailer provided the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg. Categories EC1, EC, ED1 or ED (depending on the towing vehicle) must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of 750 kg

http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/licence/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1836

junkyard

Tbh, your either at it full time of your not, that is if your interested in looking after your customers. Lots of people at it for a hobby and when the sh*t hits the fan they don't want to know about it. I hear on the grapevine that its going to be regulated shortly soon anyway and about time too. It really gets up my nose when you see cars parked on roundabouts and at the side of the road with "For Sale" signs and mobile numbers on them, I have to pay rates, public liability insurance, tax and vat and then any Tom Dick or Harry can come along and park their car in a prime location for nothing and give no guarantees, its just not fair.

kikel

junkyard wrote:

Tbh, your either at it full time of your not, that is if your interested in looking after your customers. Lots of people at it for a hobby and when the sh*t hits the fan they don't want to know about it. I hear on the grapevine that its going to be regulated shortly soon anyway and about time too. It really gets up my nose when you see cars parked on roundabouts and at the side of the road with "For Sale" signs and mobile numbers on them, I have to pay rates, public liability insurance, tax and vat and then any Tom Dick or Harry can come along and park their car in a prime location for nothing and give no guarantees, its just not fair.

Good point!! but regulation would stop someone from selling their own car in such a way.

junkyard

A private seller will still be able to sell off the paper or from a private property.

Do-more

My suggestion for making money on car sales is this:

Something I saw in Germany which would work well here as there seems to be endless amounts of people trying to sell 2nd hand cars on the buy n' sell etc.

All you need is a large (enclosed preferably) car park which is not in use at the weekend. You then charge sellers €10 to display their car for sale for the day. Maybe discount it to something ridiculous like €1 at the begining to get established. You'll need to promote it pretty much to start with but if you manage to get it established then word of mouth will keep it going. If it gets big enough you will be able to sell concessions for Finance companies, insurance co.'s, mechanics to check out cars, Chippers, etc.

For buyers it's an ideal chance to see a selection of cars in the one location at private prices.

Just remember to PM me my 20% commission!

drdre

carzone is great.i have made a few grand extra for selling my cars on that than trade in etc.so im a happy man

junkyard

I've found Carzone.ie a major disapointment tbh, I've advertised loads of times and all I got was some w@nker trying to sell be an ad in another car sites or magazine. The same goes for carbuyers guide.:(

colm_mcm

junkyard wrote:

I've found Carzone.ie a major disapointment tbh, I've advertised loads of times and all I got was some w@nker trying to sell be an ad in another car sites or magazine. The same goes for carbuyers guide.:(

I find Carzone good for any unusual stuff I'm selling, not the run-of-the-mill stuff.
It can be a pain because customers see cars like theirs for sale with the owners asking far too much for them, this then becomes their perception of the value of their car.....

junkyard

colm_mcm wrote:

I find Carzone good for any unusual stuff I'm selling, not the run-of-the-mill stuff.
It can be a pain because customers see cars like theirs for sale with the owners asking far too much for them, this then becomes their perception of the value of their car.....

True, but at least it keeps prices inflated.:D

colm_mcm

junkyard wrote:

True, but at least it keeps prices inflated.:D

Most of what I sell is new, so inflated trade ins aren't what I'm after.....

junkyard

I'm after anything I can make money out of (except livestock) new or used. I'll deal in anything....houses, planes, boats, it doesn't matter as long as there's profit to be made I'm interested.:D

mike65

I'm getting that impression alright!

Just checked me licence I have EB. Anyway given the way I am, musing is proberly as far as I'll get with this idea.

Mike.

zuutroy

Why not go the Japanese route Mike? Hook up with idirect.co.jp. Stuff like Starlet Turbos, MX-5's and more unusual stuff like Honda Beats will make a handy few quid. (Actually the Beats mightn't have a huge profit margin)

EG....you'll get a nice 95 Starlet GT for about 1500, plus 12% duty, 21% Vat, and around 350 VRT.
So all set for 2500, easy enough to sell it on for 3500. If you can be bothered with paperwork and NCT-ing its the way to go.