Backyard wrestling

Ph3n0m

"With more and more unfortunate articles being published in local and national newspapers condemning 'backyard wrestling' as we refer to it, it's about time that somebody in the limelight stood up and spoke to the kids on their level. Parents and newspapers, unfortunately, do not appear to be getting through to young children, so we figure that if the idols that they watch every week on television or at live shows appear in their schools it may have a greater impact on them. We want to show, most of all, that we at IwW do, indeed, care."

This is taken from the latest press release from IWW.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt it be fair to say that backyard wrestling is more prevailant outside of Ireland? I cannot remember the last time I saw an article in an Irish publication condeming wrestling (either professional or backyard) - not since the infamous Lionel Tate (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200103/10/eng20010310_64640.html) incident.

So do people really think something like this is an honest problem in Ireland? Or is this just a case of publicity for IWW?

Ham'nd'egger

In any market where pro wrestling exists, backyard wrestling exists; be it kids swinging clotheslines at each other, trying to throw suplexes, piledrivers, superkicks etc etc at each other. Most of these kids who take part in "backyard" wrestling are under the apprehension that what they are doing is "fake" and isn't going to hurt, or that it is easy to pull off wrestling moves. Others seem to think that once they "reherse" moves or "spots", that all is well. It isn't, and any idiot who has ever gone to any half decent school can tell you that is very much not the case. Even though I am alingned with IWW, any motions, any efforts to try and kop people onto backyard wrestling and it's very real dangers has to be a good thing.

As I type, I am looking at a website of an Irish "Backyard" promotion. The site shows pictures of teenagers "wrestling" in jackets and jeans in a muddy field, the ring made up of said mud and road work signs. And this, I suspect, is one of many.

Backyard wrestlers? Backwards, more like

Ph3n0m

Hamndegger wrote:

As I type, I am looking at a website of an Irish "Backyard" promotion. The site shows pictures of teenagers "wrestling" in jackets and jeans in a muddy field, the ring made up of said mud and road work signs. And this, I suspect, is one of many.

really because any of the ones I have found, are completely inactive since around early 2000-2003

Ham'nd'egger

Ph3n0m wrote:

really because any of the ones I have found, are completely inactive since around early 2000-2003

Pop into any of the wrestling schools in Dublin and ask the students there how many of them know of backyard promotions that are active.

Ph3n0m

I have already

And at most there was 2 I know of - but they arent as active as they used to be (one of them is actually closed down and was based in Donegal).

Plus after some serious scouring on google I did find one fed, but they have been inactive since easter of this year

triple h

i know what ph3nOm is saying and i would agree with him that backyard wrestling is not a big problem in ireland. I dont hear kids talking about wrestling like they use to years ago and i reckon its because sky show wrestling on sky sports and not on sky one like they use to (all the time) years ago.
But kids will allways act like clowns, i use to. although i was not as stupid as my brother. My brother (about 8 years ago, give or take) got up on top of the shed and jumped off it and turned around in mid air.. he landed on the boxes (loads) that he had placed there. I think he did it three times over a couple of months.
my mum was horrified the first time he did it. gave out to him. the whole family gave out to him. but he still did it twice after that. the last time he did it, he hurted his neck. it was not serious. but to this day ever so often he gets a sore neck (once or twice a year) and he is full sure it is because he was copying jeff hardy jumping off the shed.
i have not got a bus in years, but i believe you have to be on a bus (to galway) to see this because if you are in a car you cant see over the wall. there is a house near galway and in their back yard they have a wrestling ring set up all the time. they even have a ramp leading down to the ring. it looks good, so i am told.
but yes, ham'en'egger is alao right, if you have pro wrestling you will have backyard wrestling too.

leggo

I can reveal that in one class (out of fifteen no less) alone in the school the IwW wrestlers went to, a total of 8 out of 30 children had suffered mild/serious injuries while performing what they saw on television/live shows. That's one class. In another a child of no more than 10 told the performers in question that he had sprained his cast-wrapped wrist while his brother attempted to perform a cross body on him. These are but examples of this type of behaviour that, while it might not be on the front pages every day, is still ongoing.

There is only a certain amount of times that something can be considered newsworthy before it becomes 'the norm'.

This initiative isn't centred around 15-16 year olds who should know better going on the Internet and calling themselves the 'IAMASAP Heavyweight Champion', this is directed at the young children who play around in their schoolyards and hurt each other because they are eager to practise what they see on WWE, IwW and TNA television every week. Hence the initiative is directed in schools and not online.

This is a concern coming straight from the teachers and parents, not the Internet. Now Ph3n0m, I'm going to guess by your lack of knowledge of the situation (which is fair enough), that you aren't a parent nor do you discuss or relate to the issues of parents with children of, say, 9-12 year olds who would jump on each other every Saturday morning after SmackDown ends while the parents are in the next room having a cup of tea.

It would be very useful if every issue pertaining to life itself was accessible through Google, but unfortunately sometimes you have to get out there and live life to truly know the dangers and concerns of those involved.

Backyard wrestling is one such danger and I find it startling that a person such as yourself, who must be reasonably knowledgable of some of the dangers involved through such well-documented cases as the aforementioned Lionel Tate one, is so quick to question an initiative that is done for the health and well-being of young children...

My main question for you is: Should it take a death or a string of near misses for an initiative like this to begin? Or am I completely wrong and do IwW indeed deserve to be criticised for merely taking a stand before it's too late?

Ph3n0m

leggo wrote:

This initiative isn't centred around 15-16 year olds who should know better going on the Internet and calling themselves the 'IAMASAP Heavyweight Champion', this is directed at the young children who play around in their schoolyards and hurt each other because they are eager to practise what they see on WWE, IwW and TNA television every week. Hence the initiative is directed in schools and not online.

The original IWW post says it will be traveling to primary (understandable) and secondary schools - it was the secondary school that enticed me to post - especially since your reply now says it is aimed at young children who play around in their schoolyards and hurt each other because they are eager to practise what they see on WWE, IwW and TNA television every week

This is a concern coming straight from the teachers and parents, not the Internet. Now Ph3n0m, I'm going to guess by your lack of knowledge of the situation (which is fair enough), that you aren't a parent nor do you discuss or relate to the issues of parents with children of, say, 9-12 year olds who would jump on each other every Saturday morning after SmackDown ends while the parents are in the next room having a cup of tea.

Shouldnt make assumptions like that - I am a parent And before you say it, I can completely understand having to educate some parents about the potential dangers/injuries their children can inflict on themselves and each other by emulating whats on TV.

Backyard wrestling is one such danger and I find it startling that a person such as yourself, who must be reasonably knowledgable of some of the dangers involved through such well-documented cases as the aforementioned Lionel Tate one, is so quick to question an initiative that is done for the health and well-being of young children...

I question it because children have always rough housed, its an inherent liability when growing up - you cannot deny that fact. Warning parents and children alike will not ultimately prevent anything. Yes you will have educated maybe a few people, but that is it.

My main question for you is: Should it take a death or a string of near misses for an initiative like this to begin? Or am I completely wrong and do IwW indeed deserve to be criticised for merely taking a stand before it's too late?

Taking what stand, again I question this "stand" issue. You are taking about a minority out of the majority. This is nothing to do whether it was IWW, NWA, or anyone else taking a stand. The programming available out there says "Do not try this at home" - what more do you think a couple of talks will do? This has been dealt with before, maybe not on a local scale.

If it does make a difference, then yes I am all for it, I just feel as a parent and as a wrestling fan - that something like this, really wont make a difference in the long run

I am not questioning the ethics of such a program, I am questioning the real need for it.

Ham'nd'egger

Well, given that IWW have found that schools are willing to take time out of scholing to educate children at both primary and secondary levels, and as Leggo has pointed out, have already after one session, found a good amount of kids in schools already who have hurt each other from wrestling based antics, then clearly, yes, this is a good idea. And I would love to see anybody who thinks otherwise to say so and justify it.

leggo

Ph3n0m, pardon me for taking a dim view of your point, but I find the opinion of the schools who have signed up to this initiative and look out for the wellbeing off 300-plus students, a tad bit more credible than that of one parent who seems to go out of his way to criticise IwW on a semi-regular basis.

As a parent, do you want YOUR child to be the one who gets seriously injured or, god forbid, even dies in order for there to be a 'need' for this?

Again, I don't see why you actually have a concentrated PROBLEM with this? (and obviously you must since you've taken the time and effort to criticise it, else you'd just be criticising for criticism's sake)

As a parent, would you prefer that IwW didn't discourage backyarding?

Ph3n0m

leggo wrote:

Ph3n0m, pardon me for taking a dim view of your point, but I find the opinion of the schools who have signed up to this initiative and look out for the wellbeing off 300-plus students, a tad bit more credible than that of one parent who seems to go out of his way to criticise IwW on a semi-regular basis.

As a parent, do you want YOUR child to be the one who gets seriously injured or, god forbid, even dies in order for there to be a 'need' for this?

Again, I don't see why you actually have a concentrated PROBLEM with this? (and obviously you must since you've taken the time and effort to criticise it, else you'd just be criticising for criticism's sake)

As a parent, would you prefer that IwW didn't discourage backyarding?

Hold on leggo, dont start get personal here - criticise IWW on a semi-regular basis, please provide evidence before you throw out an accusation like that. And even if I do criticise IWW, am I not allowed too? Am I not allowed to voice an opinion. If I was that critical of IWW, do you honestly think I would allow IWW discussion to go on here?

There is no "problem", I am merely questioning the over all "need" for such an intiative - thats all. I am merely asking a few fundemental questions - and you seem to be taking them way to personally.

If anything I would much prefer to see IWW doing talks in schools about staying in school, not doing drugs, etc.

Vince135792003

I think its a a good response by the group and there is a need to a certain extent.

Kids of a certain age have and will always have a tendency to emulate what they see on tv. And I think its a good pro-active response.

I know I did it when I was small and many I knew too. I would n't call it "backyard wrestling". I always think of cheese graters and lightbulbs when I hear that term. It was just small kids emulating their heroes on tv.

I do look back on it fondly to a degree I must admit but the point is it just takes one kid to do somthing silly on another (like a piledriver) and it becomes way to serious.

And a half an hour in a primary school is n't a whole lot of time used up. Plus from IWW's perspective, they may make a few new fans out of it in the process. And by doing somthing responsible like this, I hope they do.

leggo

Ph3n0m, I get personally offended because I take exception to a goodwill initiative like this being questioned. I think it is a great move on the part of IwW, if I do say so myself, and think that if someone criticises it then it does rile me up a bit. Criticise the product, TV show, standard of wrestling, whatever you like, but for me this is one move that is a complete step in the right direction for Irish wrestling as a whole and doesn't deserve to be dissected, questioned and criticised unless someone would wish to bring IwW into disrepute.

I'm not accusing you of the above by the way man, I'm just clarifying why I am so behind the initiative and take exception to some cynical attitudes (not neccessarily by yourself) that have followed it.

Ph3n0m

leggo wrote:

Ph3n0m, I get personally offended because I take exception to a goodwill initiative like this being questioned. I think it is a great move on the part of IwW, if I do say so myself, and think that if someone criticises it then it does rile me up a bit. Criticise the product, TV show, standard of wrestling, whatever you like, but for me this is one move that is a complete step in the right direction for Irish wrestling as a whole and doesn't deserve to be dissected, questioned and criticised unless someone would wish to bring IwW into disrepute.

I'm not accusing you of the above by the way man, I'm just clarifying why I am so behind the initiative and take exception to some cynical attitudes (not neccessarily by yourself) that have followed it.

leggo, perfectly understandable from someone, as you said, is completely behind the initiative, and for that I do applaud you, and people like you for getting behind IWW to do this. My questions were never about that.

It was simply that my opinion on the initiative was, imo, quite a valid one and I felt it needed to be aired.

That said, I kept this thread open so people like leggo, who support and yes would even defend it, can give the flipside to the arguement, etc.

Thus ensuring that reasonable discussion took place.

I still stand by what I said in earlier post - however I will admit I should have worded my original post a tad better.

b0bsquish

Theres no doubting its a good move... but does this kind of thing actually stop kids from doing it? In primary schools it should work..but for teens? probably not for those stupid enough to try it in the first place, from what I've seen generally it takes a near miss(or worse) to happen to them first hand (ie. lets say someone jumping of a balcony in an old buliding, intending to land on someone on a table but completely missing and cracking there head open on the concrete requiring a few dozen stitches...its happened)

BUT at least there trying to do something, so fair play.

Zip

personally i think backyard wrestling is deadly TO WATCH but you would have to be stupid to think that just because you and your friends pratciced and rehersed over and over again before doing a stunt,like jumping off a balcony or falling on barbedwire,that you wont be taking a risk.

but still like i said at the start of my post,i love watching it mostly because i love hardcore wrestling(lets face it,even though there is feds that do "real" wrestling,most of it is hardcore)and i no that alot of you do aswell.

so while we are on the subject i would like to thank all of the backyard wrestlers out there that put there bodies at extremely dangerous risks just to please a cuple dozen spectators at live shows,internet broadcasts and even on dvds.

i do however have one question to the people who critisize it..... why do you critisize something you have never experienced?(apoligies to those who critisize and have)


and one last thing to all the people who like byw go out and buy the documentry about it "the backyard".its amazing:cool:

leggo

i do however have one question to the people who critisize it..... why do you critisize something you have never experienced?(apoligies to those who critisize and have)

1) For the obvious reason that not criticising it is almost equivalent to accepting it, and thus it would encourage more children (and teenagers - though imo the latter should know better) to try wrestling untrained and, as a result, hurt themselves. If fully trained wrestlers hurt themselves on such a regular basis, it's unfathomable to think of the potential injuries kids messing around can amass.

2) Because it gives wrestling's critics ammunition in their effort to have wrestling taken off television and prevents promotions like IwW bringing live shows to local areas. For example if Cork only has one suitable venue for a wrestling show, and say the owner of said venue is only familiar with wrestling in the sense that her 10-year old son broke his neck attempting to copy WWE on television, then that is IwW (or ANY wrestling promotion) completely ruled out of doing shows in the largest county in Ireland.

If Backyard Wrestling was encouraged or not even frowned upon by those within the industry, it would potentially kill the entire industry itself (along with a ton of young impressionbles). It's that serious.

Zip

I know its dangerous and i know that the people that do it get hurt but why should you care.your not the one doing it and your not the one hurting yourself.so why do you care....hell why do people actually in the business care.what im trying to say is that if you are not doing it then why are you bothering to try and stop it!!!

if kids want to be stupid let them be stupid!its their fault if they get hurt not yours.

and it wouldnt be damaging the whole industry if wrestling feds like iww,tna,wwe,roh or any other ones just didnt pay attention to it.

so to sum up what i just said....your not the one doing byw and your not the one getting hurt so why should you care.:mad:

leggo

Because more backyard wrestling = more hurt children (which I personally don't want to see) = more criticism placed on PROFESSIONAL wrestling = less live wrestling or less wrestling on television - or even none at all!

Larry David

Zip wrote:

what im trying to say is that if you are not doing it then why are you bothering to try and stop it!!!

That's one of the most ignorant and retarded statements I've ever heard anyone say. So if something doesn't affect you directly - then screw it?

According to your logic: Poverty, War, Cancer, Disease, Violence - if you aren't directly involved or affected by any of these, then why bother trying to stop them?

Dragan

Hamndegger wrote:

Well, given that IWW have found that schools are willing to take time out of scholing to educate children at both primary and secondary levels, and as Leggo has pointed out, have already after one session, found a good amount of kids in schools already who have hurt each other from wrestling based antics, then clearly, yes, this is a good idea. And I would love to see anybody who thinks otherwise to say so and justify it.

Personally I think it is a great idea, but maybe for different reasons that why you guys are doing it? Don't get me wrong, anything that might stop one kid skulling another one with a chair is all fine by me, but there are other issues here which I think you guys are addressing without even realising it.

I remember when I was a kid I would sit and watch WWF and WCW and think "when I grow up I want to be a wrestler". There was just something about watching it take an entire locker room to put Taker in the Casket that hooked me to the idea of being a prowrestler. Now then, all the dreams of children need to be fostered and nurtured in order to grow and sadly other than my own interest in wrestling there was nothing else for me. You guys are showing that there is a safe and reliable avenue for anyone who really does want to follow that dream and I think that THAT is an important lesson as well.

It's all well and good to have someone standing in front of you saying "chase your dreams" but it so much better to have someone who did that themselves, and who can help you chase yours.

So yeah, well done guys.

Hairline88

It's a very noble move indeed by iww if we take it at face value.
however we must also see that it's helping iww's business. if some kid cites his reason for backyarding as not knowing about schools in Ireland, there's fifty euro for iww when they convince him to join the school. also they're talking presumably to wrestling fans. who's to say the talk isn't centred upon their next show as much as the dangers of backyarding.
good idea iww. showing you care as well as potentially plugging your shows and school all wrapped into one handy pr stunt, a smart bunch when they're not embarassing themselves by having ham'nd'egger and leggo(two people who are part of iww) having arguments with any random poster in an unofficial capacity.

eggs

no need to post twice

anyway closing this old thread will work better