Kings under fire

spectre

Tribeca 1/2NL. Villain is 22/16. I have $350, he has $205.

Villain opens for 8 in MP. I make it 20 from the button with KK. Folded to Villain who calls.

Flop (42)
Td 7s Ah

He checks, I check.

Turn is Ac. Villain bets $30. I call.

River (102) is 8c. He bets $75

Call or fold?

cardshark202

Fold.

El Stuntman

surely the question should be "fold, or fold really, really fast leaving scorch marks on the virtual felt as the cards speed towards the virtual muck?"

TacT

muck like the clappers

shaydy

call and beat his JJ;) ,

ok please excuse if this is really simple but can someone explain the whole 22/16 to me? i dont use PT or simalar software so not sure what these digits mean when people post

Thanks
Shay

newbie2

shaydy wrote:

call and beat his JJ;) ,

ok please excuse if this is really simple but can someone explain the whole 22/16 to me? i dont use PT or simalar software so not sure what these digits mean when people post

me neither. Is it played 16 outta the last 22 hands?

RoundTower

Raise more preflop. I think the river is closer than people think, I sometimes would call here. I would have had a good idea what I would do in this situation before I called the turn.

ChipLdr

22/16 refers to The VPIP and PFR % of the villian. VPIP is the % that the player has voluntarily put into the pot. So a low % usually means a tight git while anything over 40 can be considered a gambler. PFR refers to the % of times the player has raised preflop. High in this instance means that the player is usually Loose Agressive raising with a wide range of hands.

Obviously the opposite applies for a low PFR%. Its amazing how much this helps you make decisions online. If the player with a low PFR raises you can put him on a short range of hands therefore allowing you to make a decision much more easily.

Another factor that should also be considered is the agression factor. This is calculated by the amount of PRF and also how many times the player bets out on each street after making a raise . This number helps you to decide whether or not to make a continuation against a player and also lets you bluff a player who seldom makes continuation bets.

If you play cash games online then PT is a must.www.pokerpromotions.net is where you'll get it for free if you clear a bonus.Hope that makes some sort of sense. I've been 4 tabling omaha for last 9 hrs and eyes are quite blurry.

fuzzbox

Raise more preflop.
I dont know what to do here because of your reraise amount.

Sometimes I would call here - but usually I've made it like 25 to go preflop, which makes a difference to his calling range.

ianmc38

I raise more preflop and I bet the flop most of the time. I may find a call here. I certainly dont think it's an instafold. The way you played the hand looks like JJ-KK so you may have induced a bluff from a worse hand.

spectre

RoundTower wrote:

Raise more preflop. I think the river is closer than people think, I sometimes would call here. I would have had a good idea what I would do in this situation before I called the turn.

My thinking is similar. Although when I called the turn, I was of course hoping that he would give up on the river.

It seems evident from my play that I have a big pair and not an ace. Therefore it is not uncommon for an opponent to fire again on the river. I thought it was close enough, though I was concerned that if he had a hand like JJ, that he may check the river. Against a weaker player, I fold 90% of the time.

I made a crying call. He has 56h and I'm good.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

I raise more preflop and I bet the flop most of the time. I may find a call here. I certainly dont think it's an instafold. The way you played the hand looks like JJ-KK so you may have induced a bluff from a worse hand.

i like this.

spectre

ianmc38 wrote:

I raise more preflop and I bet the flop most of the time. I may find a call here. I certainly dont think it's an instafold. The way you played the hand looks like JJ-KK so you may have induced a bluff from a worse hand.

By betting the flop, we are bluffing are we not?

ianmc38

We've raised preflop, so betting that flop is definitely not a bluff. Do you check KK on an ace high flop everytime?

spectre

ianmc38 wrote:

We've raised preflop, so betting that flop is definitely not a bluff. Do you check KK on an ace high flop everytime?

Against a more weak passive passive opponent, betting the flop is a better line as he will be less inclined to bluff at it.

Against a more aggressive player in a reraised pot like this I often won't bet this flop. My opponent will often have an underpair and the only chance I have of getting more money is to let him bet.

If he has an Ace he will call a flop bet. What then do we do on the turn? If he checks, we will have to check behind and make it easy for him to bluff on the river. If he bets the turn, we have to fold as we know that we will probably face another shell on the river.

The end result is that by playing the hand passively, I face the smallest possible river bet with the highest chance that I'm being bluffed.

Gholimoli

spectre wrote:

Against a more weak passive passive opponent, betting the flop is a better line as he will be less inclined to bluff at it.

Against a more aggressive player in a reraised pot like this I often won't bet this flop. My opponent will often have an underpair and the only chance I have of getting more money is to let him bet.

If he has an Ace he will call a flop bet. What then do we do on the turn? If he checks, we will have to check behind and make it easy for him to bluff on the river. If he bets the turn, we have to fold as we know that we will probably face another shell on the river.

The end result is that by playing the hand passively, I face the smallest possible river bet with the highest chance that I'm being bluffed.

First you say that against an aggro player the only way to get money out of him is to let him bluff at it.
Then you say the suggested line (betting the flop) makes it easy for him to bluff at the river.
Is that not good for you based on your logic to make it easy for him to bluff?

NickyOD

Raise more preflop. Bet the flop.

As you played it. Fold the river.

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

First you say that against an aggro player the only way to get money out of him is to let him bluff at it.
Then you say the suggested line (betting the flop) makes it easy for him to bluff at the river.
Is that not good for you based on your logic to make it easy for him to bluff?

Gholi - he didnt say this at all.

He said - if opponent is aggro - then checking the flop is good, but if opponent is passive - then betting the flop is good.
He also said that by checking the flop (playing the hand passively), you make it easier for your opponent to try to bluff you and that this is good.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Gholi - he didnt say this at all.

He said - if opponent is aggro - then checking the flop is good, but if opponent is passive - then betting the flop is good.
He also said that by checking the flop (playing the hand passively), you make it easier for your opponent to try to bluff you and that this is good.

i got what he said .

but after saying that the only way of getting money from an aggro player is by him bluffing, he also says this:

"If he has an Ace he will call a flop bet. What then do we do on the turn? If he checks, we will have to check behind and make it easy for him to bluff on the river."

spectre

Gholimoli wrote:

i got what he said .

but after saying that the only way of getting money from an aggro player is by him bluffing, he also says this:

"If he has an Ace he will call a flop bet. What then do we do on the turn? If he checks, we will have to check behind and make it easy for him to bluff on the river."

If I bet the flop and he calls, generally this means I am behind.
However, if he calls with a worse hand(Granted this is unlikely), I will have to check behind on the turn and will most likely be folding the river.

Gholimoli

spectre wrote:

If I bet the flop and he calls, generally this means I am behind.
However, if he calls with a worse hand(Granted this is unlikely), I will have to check behind on the turn and will most likely be folding the river.

if you bet the flop and get called and we assume he has an A,he will not only check the turn (which you can check behind) ,but will most likely check the river too.
if you bet the flop he may also elect to call with JJ,QQ here but he will almost certainly not bet with them.
im not saying your line is bad or is not correct i was just pointing out something in your post that didnt go with the rest of it.