Boring, boring Munster

Tim Robbins

That was a funny chant by the Leinster fans or was it?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Crash

Yeah I didn't like it. could only just hear it though, none of it was going on in the ST.

Tim Robbins

&#231 wrote: »

Yeah I didn't like it. could only just hear it though, none of it was going on in the ST.

I've been going to Leinster / Munster rugby matches for a while and I am sick to death of Munster fans abusing Leinster.

Not just the team, but the players and the fans.
At least the "boring Munster" chant is honest and doesn't pick on an individual. Up the jumper rugby is frigging awful to watch. No matter how excellant Munster are at excuting that tactic.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Diamondmaker

When Eng won the WC that way, Im sure many a Munster fan had the same abuse to give to Eng.

Boring boring |Eng, all about Jonny, Martin and a pack of animal forwards

what team sounds like that?

Tim Robbins

Diamondmaker wrote:

When Eng won the WC that way, Im sure many a Munster fan had the same abuse to give to Eng.

Boring boring |Eng, all about Jonny, Martin and a pack of animal forwards

what team sounds like that?

I don't think you could compare England's World Cup tactics to Munsters.
* Robinson was the best open runner in the world, and the best at 1-1's.
* Lewsey at 15 was a class act.
* Wilkson was well able to carry and offload
* Dawson probably had the best scrum half break in the game
* When Dawson made his breaks, Back was well able to play Scrum Half and had a fairly decent pass.
They weren't champagne Rugby I'll give you that, but they were nowhere near Munster's level of up the jumperness.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Tim Robbins

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Fair enough Dave. Some decent points, I take you are a real Rugby fan so.
They did try to run it a couple of times, but there were several times when they were happy to stick it up the jumper.

When a Munster player is about to take a hit, he rarely offloads. He generally tries to set up the ruck. Or if he's a bit stronger, he tries to stay on his feet and then the supporting player doesn't bother looking for the offload but instead binds on and drives up behind him.
Many of Zurich Premiership teams play this way. I think Munster are just the best at it.
Personally I don't like this style of Rugby. There's not much movement, speed or creativity to it, although I except it's very effective.

Hopefully Barry Murphy and another signing might galvnise the Munster team and we can see some more of the ball from our neighbours.

toomevara

So playing ten man rugby's suddenly a sin eh? Well for me its a thing of rare beauty and long may it continue. Not incidentally, that I accept the feckin' slanderous accusation that Munster played ten man rugby last night. Munster play, on the whole a well balanced game, which does admittedly err on the side of the 10 man game, but they know when to cut loose as well. It may not be conventionally pretty but its bleedin' effective.

By the way thanks Daveirl for that link, still rises the hairs on the back of my neck.

toomevara

Oh and that chant's a joke, the sort of imported soccer ****e we should strive to keep out of the game, regardless of who its aimed at.

Sangre

A team excelling at any aspect of rugby is usually a thing of beauty, from line-outs, to Garryowens to backline moves.

RuggieBear

it actually might have been me who started that chant....didn't hear anyone chanting it before i first shouted it.

I have no qualms.

None of you heard the "easy easy" chants leinster fans were subjected to in the H cup semi.


Besides, i thought the atmosphere was cracking, especailly in the east terrace and will hopefully put to rest the ****ing bull**** about being quiet.

uberwolf

the chant is no more imported than "championes" which was sung in return.

I was at this last night, and whatever about boring munster - they, to be fair, can only play the rugby their personnel allow for. But I was seriously agrieved at the cheating by them last night.

Munster fans will never forget the actions of a one Neil Back, but time and time again I saw deliberate foul play and 'diving'. Stringers act on Easterby for the first Munster try was as well considered as Back's ever was.

But for me, watching O'Callaghan deliberately fake injury to get other players in trouble is a long way removed from the glorious perception most Munster fans have of their team. Contepomi shouldn't have reacted the way he did to O'Callaghan holding him, but O'Callaghan played dead until the card was shown, and then sprang to his feet. Much like a pre madonna soccer player.

But in the second half, when he (DO'C) found himself on the wrong side of a ruck, and under legitimate (IMO) use of the boot, he rolled around clutching his chest for the benefit of the touch judge, then got up and LIMPED away. All this despite the boot catching him in the stomach!!

Boring, maybe. Cheaters? seems so.

I have always had a grudging respect for Munster, but I thought their character was shown to be pathetic last night.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

uberwolf

I haven't seen the video (the yourtube link in the other thread doesn't show it), but was 20 feet away from it when it happened - and my impression of what happened was as described.

I am also trying to draw a distinction between what you say Gleeson did on one side and whomever did for yourselves as it's deemed an art form in some parts of the world. It's borderline legitimate foul play. I was hopping mad watching the All Blacks at it against the Lions.

I'd even see what Stringer did as a fair enough cop, but definitely in the same vein as Neil Back.

I saw the video of FC, no doubt he connected, and had to go for it. DO'Cs refusal to let go after the first attempt swing hardly leaves him in the clear. But not even the magic sponge can explain the correlation between appearance of the card for FC and the bounding to the feet of DO'C.

And until I see an real time video of the ruck incident I can't change my view of it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Diamondmaker

Never heard the chant before either, started on |Fri on the East Terrace as RB suggest by the supporters club.
Just a bit of fun, 10 man rugby aint a sin its just boring........

...................Well boring compared to what Leinster serve up.;)

Munster did try and spread it a few times but dont think they broke the gain line at all by this method.
Even using the pack a certain amount of gamesmanship was requied to get one of the tries.....Cheatin Cheatin Munster did get a chant for a while but that is very unfair.

Diamondmaker

Tim Robbins wrote:

I don't think you could compare England's World Cup tactics to Munsters.
* Robinson was the best open runner in the world, and the best at 1-1's.
* Lewsey at 15 was a class act.
* Wilkson was well able to carry and offload
* Dawson probably had the best scrum half break in the game
* When Dawson made his breaks, Back was well able to play Scrum Half and had a fairly decent pass.
They weren't champagne Rugby I'll give you that, but they were nowhere near Munster's level of up the jumperness.

ut not a

Yeah but the general gist of my point was Eng got labelled boring after winning the WC but as you point out Munster are more up the jumper than their performance even...thats my point. And you can bet that many a Munster fan commented to that effect at the time also.
But it works and wins trophies it seems! L:eicetser another ex of a succesful team with a canny pack and uncompromising playesr in it.

Amazotheamazing

Diamondmaker wrote:

ut not a

Yeah but the general gist of my point was Eng got labelled boring after winning the WC but as you point out Munster are more up the jumper than their performance even...thats my point. And you can bet that many a Munster fan commented to that effect at the time also.
But it works and wins trophies it seems! L:eicetser another ex of a succesful team with a canny pack and uncompromising playesr in it.

No one who saw England rip Ireland apart in the Grand Slam decider could call them boring, in fact, it was the Australian press who labelled them boring, most Irish press saw the damage they could run with ball in hand.

Last night was actually pretty pleasing from a Munster point of view, we spread the ball every oppurtunity, O'Gara rarely kicked, to our improvised back 3 (or back 2 anyway), we took on some of the best backs in Europe and finished within a score. For a team who the previous week rucked and mauled it's way against Ulster, it's very pleasing to see us work on another style of play. It didn't come off, but it wasn't a disaster either. Did Munster even bother to play it in the forwards?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Amazotheamazing

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I reckon we're going to try and run it against Leicester too. It's presumably a bonus point issue, ensuring we either get a losing one or are looking for a winning one.

Was pretty surprised by how poor Leinster's lineout remains, and frankly, BOD is also their best flanker. There was a few Leinster lineouts in our 22 (first half) and they just couldn't win them for love or money. It was crazy trying to take on Leinster in the centres, and I can only imagine we're going to target either Leicester (Tuaglie Smith?) or Cardiff (Shanklin ?) there.

Would we have one the game if we'd kept it tight? We used them twice and we scored a try both times... seriously, even when we were camped on the Leinster line we spread it after 2 or so phases. Strange days.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Crash

Personally I was very happy from a leinster point of view - not because of the result but we actually had a lineout to a point, and a pack that held up. Was well impressed. It was a very different team to the one I remember watching in the north terrace a year and a bit ago playing leicester (and hell, a different crowd, for once I was only the loudest person by a bit )

there are changes coming through - gonna have to sit down and watch the match on vid or avi if anyone has it before I can spot individual performances (other than shaggy, he really stood out for me) but it was a hell of a game.

also i find it amusing I was quoted in Tim Robbins first post there - I'm a leinster boy, and I ****ing hate that kind of chanting insulting bull**** from both sides. hell I was so annoyed over the "cheerio cheerio cheerio" chants last year at the SF like

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Scary as it sounds the lineout on friday was a huge improvement on what i witnessed v Edinburgh and Cardiff.

Leinster are going to be found out soon enough:(

Sangre

But if Munster can't capitalise on na floudering lineout, there aren't many other teams that can. Hopefully by the team we have to face them the lineout will be much improved.

Crash

As ruggie said, its all relative :P the lineout in the last few matches had been such a disgrace that that was about a million times of an improvement.

Amz

I couldn't get over the amount of Munster fans who were leaving the stadium with around fifteen minutes to go. These are the same people who'll tell us they're the best fans in the country next time they get a chance. I should have taken names and addresses

Amazotheamazing

Sangre wrote:

But if Munster can't capitalise on na floudering lineout, there aren't many other teams that can. Hopefully by the team we have to face them the lineout will be much improved.

In your opinion, did Munster actually attack the Leinster lineout, and did Munster start many rolling mauls? I don't think we did, and I don't know why we didn't.

It was bizarre to see Manning knock on so much coming into the line, why did Munster try and include our 2 least experienced players so much, rather than keep the ball tight and protect them?

Why do you think Munster spread the ball so much?

Tim Robbins

Amazotheamazing wrote:

In your opinion, did Munster actually attack the Leinster lineout, and did Munster start many rolling mauls? I don't think we did, and I don't know why we didn't.

Not that many mauls but tons of one pass, carry, smash, ruck - followed by one pass, carry, smash, ruck.
Each smash no offload. There was a stage in the first half they did about 20 in a row.
Very boring to watch, worse than Rugby league. Even it ended up in a try for Munster...

Amazotheamazing

Tim Robbins wrote:

Not that many mauls but tons of one pass, carry, smash, ruck - followed by one pass, carry, smash, ruck.
Each smash no offload. There was a stage in the first half they did about 20 in a row.
Very boring to watch, worse than Rugby league. Even it ended up in a try for Munster...

So Tim, why didn't Munster use the rolling maul, the one they used (in Irish shirts) to great affect against NZ? Could it be it wasn't a win at all costs game?

Sangre

I didn't actually see match, just assumed that they'd go for a notoriously weak line-out.

Sundy

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Well i find most rugby interesting but the sight of horgans try is just beautiful, maybe its just munster fans dont appreciate that kind of rugby because they see it much.

on a side note in that video 2 munster payers come in from the side in into the maul, o'connell at the start and stringer at the end. If refs were stricter on the attacking teams in mauls munsters 10 man style would ahve to change.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

zAbbo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Gloucester look to be in amazing form as well, seen some of them over the weekend on that Anglo Cup thingy, can't wait for the Leinster game.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

zAbbo

Tickets are online today apparently - http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/index.asp?docID=604

BolBill

Munsters efforts trying to run the ball were hilarious, their backs are so bad its not funny. Once plan A (stick it up the jersey and bulldoze) doesnt work there isnt a plan B.

Oh and O'Callaghan is a feckin girl going down like he did.

Amazotheamazing

BolBill wrote:

Munsters efforts trying to run the ball were hilarious, their backs are so bad its not funny. Once plan A (stick it up the jersey and bulldoze) doesnt work there isnt a plan B.

Which is exactly why Munster used Friday's game as an exercise to try out about 100% more backline moves than they usually use. You will note Munster never bothered with plan A but jumped straight to plan B.

Sangre, you wondered why Munster didn't attack Leinster through the forwards, I think (I might be wrong) that if it was a knock-out game they would have.

Diamondmaker

It is crazy to suggest that Munster went into this game to "try out" some new techniques.......... Maybe taking out the scrum half in a scrum and holding the out half back just off a ruck situation maybe.........

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Amazotheamazing

Diamondmaker wrote:

It is crazy to suggest that Munster went into this game to "try out" some new techniques.......... Maybe taking out the scrum half in a scrum and holding the out half back just off a ruck situation maybe.........

Alright, this is my take on the game, like I said, it's just my opinion.

Munster have one of the best rolling mauls in NH club rugby, they showed it against NZ and they showed it last week against Ulster. Why didn't they use it against Leinster, who's pack would be considered weaker than NZ and Ulster's?

Munster have one of the worse back divisions in NH club rugby (top level), Leinster have one of the best, why then, did Munster spread the ball at every oppurtunity? Munster had plaenty of "clean" ball, indeed, if often was only knocked on once it got to the wings or when Manning joined the line. Why did Munster seek to include their 2 most inexperienced players (Manning and O'Leary) in every single play? They number of unforced mistakes both made throughout the game was embarassing.

Also, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll have shown themselves to be 2 of the best defensive centres in world rugby, particulary against NZ, so why did Munster seek to take on these guys, rather than the less rated tight 5?

It's my opinion that Kidney literally wanted to try his backs against the best in the business, since he knows his forwards can beat most of the best packs in Europe. I would suggest that the game was used to try new combinations before the HEC.

If you disagree, why do you think Munster used their sub-par backs so much, against one of the best backs units in Europe? Why didn't O'Gara kick to the corners? Why didn't they call short lineouts and maul the ball forward?

Honestly, if you have a logical reason I'd love to hear it.

Tim Robbins

Amazotheamazing wrote:

So Tim, why didn't Munster use the rolling maul, the one they used (in Irish shirts) to great affect against NZ? Could it be it wasn't a win at all costs game?

Without John Hayse, The Munster Maul isn't as effective. The same was the case NYE in the last Celtic League match. No Hayse no devastating rolling maul.
I think Munster are not the same team without him.

It's not just the maul, they use, it's that one pass smash, ruck - one pass, smash ruck (similar to what you see in British Rugby league) which they also use a lot in every game.

This very boring to watch. Leinster this time did their homework and their counter rucking game was able for it. In the semi final it wasn't.

Tim Robbins

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

7s doesn't have the tactical depth of Union and the games are also too short.
But it is an excellant sport all the same.
IMO the back line moves in Union are far more complicated and more difficult to execute in Union. 7s is more of the cuff, not that's there's anything wrong with that, it's just you don't see the same complexity, 15 hitting the line and 12 on a decoy, time to perfection so that the 11 comes off the blind side to take it off the break from the 15 - etc etc.

The problem, with up the jumper style it takes the beauty completely and utterly out of the sport. And it also takes out the tactical variation as it is the most simpliest tactics, a good strong pack and a good kicker that's it.

That said, it is very effective.

Diamondmaker

I was as surprised as anyone else when Munster did not kick for touch a lot more often in the second half with the breeze in their favour.
Seeing as they opted to play into the wind in the 1st half you would have thought that this would have been why.....

It is hard to believe that they could go into such a grudge match not wanting to win it at all costs however.

Those players want to win every game and the managemnt and club do not want to be scrambling away for ML points to ensure HC next year, when they may otherwise like to rest a few front liners for the HC games.
It makes no sense to chance losing that particular match given the pressure they are under now to really compete in both tournaments.
Munster really cannot afford to lose to Edinburgh as a result and in ensuring a win against them run the risk of picking up injuries for Lecister away. A win V leinster would have eased the pressure on this upcoming game and may have allowed some guys rest who may now play.

It makes no sense to chance losing that game to me and equally it is baffling why they did not kick for the line more. But hey its sport and us punters can only but speculate........since when has sport been logical to every onlooker any way.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Tim Robbins

Diamondmaker wrote:

It makes no sense to chance losing that particular match given the pressure they are under now to really compete in both tournaments.

You are correct.
There's no way Munster are prepared to loose any game.
Rugby is a tough physical sport, it's all about commitment or you get injured. There's no way a professional Rugby team go into any game without 100% commitment.
Some of their fans may not care if they lose Celtic league games but the same cannot be said of any of their players.

Diamondmaker

Its a derby match for gods sake straight after the SF. It was a must win.
It was a big game for the fans, yes.
Most importnat game of the season til then, yes.
You cross one bridge at a time you want to win all the games. yes

You suggets that Munster did not want to win that cos they had bigger fish to fry in 2 weeks...utter nonsence.

Id like you to suggest that to POC or DOC.

Tell me that your ML position is not a hinderance now to your HC campaign cos it is............

The ML so far has shown a clear lack of depth in Munster and what would come of them with 2 key injusries in the pack...disaster!

With those backs and 2 key forwards such as ( PICK ANY 2 ) Missing you are in serious trouble.