Hypothetical question

murphaph

If you were standing in a queue in a <insert name of a discount food retailer> store and you saw the security and/or management of said store pushing/dragging someone under protest into the office, what would you think? Would you be uncomfortable in that situation?

scojones

murphaph wrote:

If you were standing in a queue in a <insert name of a discount food retailer> store and you saw the security and/or management of said store pushing/dragging someone under protest into the office, what would you think? Would you be uncomfortable in that situation?

I'd think what a scumbag. I would feel very comfortable that they got caught red handed. One less skanger causing havoc in a <insert name of a discount food retailer>.

Ruu_Old

Same as sjones, and I would probably point and laugh also. Tell us what you did OP.

challengemaster

pointing and laughing ftfw \o/

Rb

sjones wrote:

I'd think what a scumbag. I would feel very comfortable that they got caught red handed. One less skanger causing havoc in a <insert name of a discount food retailer>.

Agreed.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Sofaspud

The Scientist wrote:

I find that shoplifting(assuming thats what 'under protest' means) is both shallow and pedantic.

Yes, I agree. Shallow and pedantic.

Piste

Please explain how you find it shallow and pedantric?

shal‧low  /ˈʃæloʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shal-oh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb, verb
–adjective
1. of little depth; not deep: shallow water.
2. lacking depth; superficial: a mind that is not narrow but shallow.
3. taking in a relatively small amount of air in each inhalation: shallow breathing.
4. Baseball. relatively close to home plate: The shortstop caught the pop fly in shallow left field.
–noun
5. Usually, shallows. (used with a singular or plural verb) a shallow part of a body of water; shoal.
–adverb
6. Baseball. at a shallow position: With the pitcher up, the outfielders played shallow.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
7. to make or become shallow.
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME schalowe (adj.); akin to OE sceald shallow (see shoal1)]


pe‧dan‧tic  /pəˈdæntɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[puh-dan-tik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.
Also, pe‧dan‧ti‧cal.

[Origin: 1590–1600; pedant + -ic]

—Related forms
pe‧dan‧ti‧cal‧ly, adverb
pe‧dan‧ti‧cal‧ness, noun

—Synonyms 2. didactic, doctrinaire.

Chinafoot

A Family Guy quote that even I got

Sam Vimes

peachypants wrote:

A Family Guy quote that even I got

i see you've been studying


what i'm wondering is what colour are those red fire trucks

spurious

People's reactions above (presumption of guilt etc.) show why it's a big earner in the courts if security grab the wrong person.

Faith

I'd be really curious as to what exactly had happened.

Pigman II

I was once (wrongly) chucked out of the Virgin Megastore (the one that used to be on the quays). Had to laugh at it as far from being a tea-leaf I was a dvd/videogame/music junkie at the time with more money thans sense and probably one of their best customers. But I never went back. Ironically they closed their doors in under a year so business couldn't have been that good to be chuckin out good customers for no reason.

Anyway point is as I was escorted off the premises is I didn't get physical so neither did they. So if someone is getting physically dragged into an office then they're probably not the most reasonable or reputatable of individuals to begin with and as such shouldn't be deserving of any of your sympathy or support.

SimpleSam06

spurious wrote:

People's reactions above (presumption of guilt etc.) show why it's a big earner in the courts if security grab the wrong person.

I'm not one bit sure of this, but I don't think management or security types are even allowed to lay their hands on someone, unless physically assaulted themselves. The only ones with power of arrest are the gardai, everything else is illegal detention. There may be clauses for ejection from the premises (as in the case of bouncers) but you can't really hold someone against their will, unless you are a duly authorised representative of the law. Which most weekend training course security guards ain't.

Rb

SimpleSam06 wrote:

I'm not one bit sure of this, but I don't think management or security types are even allowed to lay their hands on someone, unless physically assaulted themselves. The only ones with power of arrest are the gardai, everything else is illegal detention. There may be clauses for ejection from the premises (as in the case of bouncers) but you can't really hold someone against their will, unless you are a duly authorised representative of the law. Which most weekend training course security guards ain't.

If security staff see, or are told by a member of staff who can vow they saw the person in question stealing, then they may lay hands on them once they step foot outside the store as the goods are then deemed "stolen".
At least thats my understanding of it.

Donald-Duck

rb_ie wrote:

If security staff see, or are told by a member of staff who can vow they saw the person in question stealing, then they may lay hands on them once they step foot outside the store as the goods are then deemed "stolen".
At least thats my understanding of it.

I don't think the member of staff applies,one of my friends(who worked in the place) saw someone stealing something and the security guard told her he couldn't do anything unless HE saw them steal it

murphaph

rb_ie wrote:

If security staff see, or are told by a member of staff who can vow they saw the person in question stealing, then they may lay hands on them once they step foot outside the store as the goods are then deemed "stolen".
At least thats my understanding of it.

Almost spot on. Any person may arrest any other person if they know or have reasonable grounds to suspect that that person is committing/has committed an arrestable offence. Reasonable physical force may be used if the person does not comply when told of their arrest. The person does not necessarilly have to be found guilty later on for the arrest to be legal. Also, the suspect does not have to leave the store for the owner to have been deprived of his/her goods (Larceny), stepping past the tills in a store like <insert name of discount retailer with till gates> would be enough for an offence to have been committed.

Criminal Law Act, 1997 wrote:

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

Anyway, I'm more interested in how you would all feel as customers in the store, rather than the legalities of it all.

murphaph

Donald-Duck wrote:

I don't think the member of staff applies,one of my friends(who worked in the place) saw someone stealing something and the security guard told her he couldn't do anything unless HE saw them steal it

The security guard was protecting himself in case your friend was mistaken. You need reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has been committed, it is doubtful that "the staff member saw x put y down their trousers" would be good enough grounds to deprive someone of their liberty.

Black Swan

Grand if a shoplifter caught, sad if by mistake. Went to a film yesterday, but before going, bought a small tube of chocolate at a nearby market. Ate half of it during the film. Was wearing very tight shorts and the pocket I put it in caused it to bulge (Was only wearing a halter top and had not purse or fanny pack). After the film, went back to the same market to buy milk and eggs before returning to my flat. Realised once in the market that my pocket was bulging with the chocolate bought earlier. Would they think me a shoplifter when I went to check out? Dove in my skimpy pockets and was relieved to find the receipt.

AdMMM

murphaph wrote:

If you were standing in a queue in a <insert name of a discount food retailer> store and you saw the security and/or management of said store pushing/dragging someone under protest into the office, what would you think? Would you be uncomfortable in that situation?

I'd only feel uncomfortable if I too had something stuffed down my trousers.

FlutterinBantam

Serves ya right for wearing tight shorts

Trinity

If i saw a young kid being man handled by security staff i would intervene, if it was an adult i would be embarrassed for them but wouldnt think much of it!

Neighbour of mine got 34,000 euro from penny's (dont know her personally, read it in northside people) cos not only was she wrongly accused of shop lifting she was man handled by the security staff.

Lindaloo

I used to work in a shop in town that sold everything from toys to cosmetics to ornaments. The security in the shop on the whole were good lads but there were two of them that were horrible aggressive bullies. One time a homeless fella came into the shop and put some batteries in his pocket, the two lads had been spoiling for a fight all day long and I could see them coming towards him. I went over to the homeless fella and told him to take them out of his pocket which he did straight away, had the lads have asked him to empty his pockets he'd have had nothing in them.

Didn't make any odds, the two security guards got him, one at this head, one at his feet, they brought him downstairs, smacked his head off everything they could in the shop on the way down, kept putting hot spoons on his face and body, stuffed a load of postcards in his pocket and waited for the police. He started out robbing the batteries but all it took was a word to him and he put them back. I didn't speak to either of them after that and left the shop not long after.

To be honest, that's just one story from that shop so I wouldn't be too quick to assume that someone had done something wrong. If they are good security people, majority of the time, they will be able to get the person into the back without any hassle. From what I've seen, most of the big time shoplifters go quietly when caught anyway.

Dragan

I did security for years, both pub/club and retail and in either area you get your fair share of moron's. I was just there to earn a paycheck but plenty of young lads were there to try and prove how hard they were. My advice to them was always to join the other side, because I didn't want to work with anyone who had a similar mentality to the people I was trying to stop.

I had more than a few violent incidents when trying to bring people back to the shop I was based in for theft. The short and simple of it is that you need to see them steal it, have them in your vision at all times and wait until they leave the last possible point of purchase i.e. have exited the shop before you approach them. In the event of needing to bring some back you walk up to them, introduce yourself to them as a security guard from the store and ask them could they return to the shop with you.

That it's.

You don't grap them, you don't muller off up the road after them. If your doing your job your leaving the shop one step behind them and have already called to other units to just keep and eye should they do a runner. If they refuse to return, or act in any way violent, then you can bring them back to the shop. You need to be 100% confident of them having taken something because if your wrong the company will end up paying the price.

In 3 years doing retail I had 300+ arrests with non of them false.

brown*eyed*girl

Wrongly accused a few years ago in City Square Shopping Centre in Waterford. I was in Roches with my son in his buggy and my Mam. My Mam noticed that her purse was missing which had €400+ in it. Obviously we both panicked and told the manager of Roches etc. I searched Roches & my Mam went back down to the church around the corner where she had been previously lighting a candle for St. Anthony. The whole way down she prayed to St. Anthony that he'd find her purse and when she went down there it was right next to the statue of St. Anthony! Sorry going off track there. She comes back up to Roches and we're both delighted she found the purse and off we head out of Roches and into the shopping centre when suddenly a security guard taps me on the shoulder and says he needs to speak to me in his office for shoplifting.

I was so red as it was extremely busy and was mortified. At the same time I didn't know what I was supposed to have taken until he pointed at a little teddy which my son was playing with. The security guard was very nice and said he knew it was obvious that my son had grabbed it without me noticing and especially with all the commotion of my Mam's purse going missing BUT he still had to get a statement from me. In the end we all thought it was funny but still very & I got some looks of disgust too.

Siogfinsceal

id think oh look another shop lifted getting caught bet he is mortified

murphaph

So far so good. Little sympathy for the suspects! I'm not in security but in retail management and I was just wondering what people's perceptions of arrests were.