Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

You Suck!

Hi all, This is my second time round doing a self build, and as usual I have the joy of having to read shítloads just to catch up from where I left off. So in hope of doing a little recon, Im hoping you could help me with some advice on how the hell to proceed.

Starting from fundementals.....
First question Am2 or 775, I know all about the core duo's lead at the moment, but the lower costs of the amds are still attractive. Thing is will there be an am2 quad processor in the future, and will this upgrade be limited by the motherboard I buy now. Ive noticed that some of the 775 mobos are claiming to be quad core ready and thats kind of what draws me towards the intel side of things. Thing is tho, What the hell is the deal with sli and intel mobo's atm? Is it true that it's just a matter of waiting for nvidia mobo's?

Second up,
In terms of graphics, Ive heard about the upcoming intro of Dx10, however the realistic view means it'll probably be 2008 before we see much that use's it. In terms of graphics, Im trying to be stratigic, in that I could spend 200 now and then wait for the price to drop, buy another and go sli. Im thinking nvidia for price and linux compatibility.

Alternativly would it be better to go for a cheap sli set up instead of one good card in anticipation of dx10 coming sooner?

I guess that covers the fundementals, Ram won't be decieded on until I clear up what exactly the route Im goin to take is.

Id also wonder if there would be any pitfalls in going for a media pc case(atx) that ye might know of.....

8T8

AM2 is AMD's future socket the quad core AMD CPU's will very likely be able to be drop in replacements on AM2 motherboards with a bios update.

AMD's quad core is a more elegant design than Intel's but it remains to be seen what sort of advantages will come from that.

SLI and Core 2 Duo is in limbo at the moment, the Intel edition of the nForce 5 series has been delayed despite it's launch a while back so the boards are not expected to ship until late October or some time in November.

At the moment the only way to secure SLI and Core 2 Duo is through the use of the Intel edition nForce 4 X16 boards with a Core 2 bios update but these are not too common.

Graphics, if you forget about DX10 the DX10 cards will be faster DX9 cards so in that sense they could be worth it, NVIDIA we know will resolve the problem of not being able to do HDR+AA in the GeForce 8 series plus a few other surprises I'm sure are planned. However such cards will not be cheap even with the 8800GT or perhaps a GS you are looking at a minimum of €350+ for the cheapest model.

It's still late November going into December as the time frame for their appearance, I would say get one high end GPU and then go SLI later instead of getting SLI outright as it wouldn't be worth it (either way if you plan on getting a GF7 or GF8 GPU). With a low end SLI setup well the 7600GT is the best NVIDIA offer in that segment as long as you are not at mega high resolutions it should run everything fairly well with details maxed out but the catch is the price as you get close to the cost of a 7900GT which would offer better performance so in short only worth it if you can get them cheap enough.

To boil it down NVIDIA DX10 vs DX9 if you don't really care about image quality too much go with the GF7. ATI supposedly have been getting better with linux & the X1K series though so it may be worth investigating - if you want image quality + DX9 and buying right now.


RAM get 2GB no matter what type you get.

Media Center cases, I had been pondering the same myself recently for use as a desktop case, there is no reason they wont work and some HTPC cases offer a lot of expansion potential (though traditionally not in the CD/DVD area). The only real issue is price as often HTPC cases are priced much higher than normal midi tower cases.

You Suck!

Cheers 8T8,

That clears up a few things.

Definately leaning towards AM2 now that I know about the sli delay. That and the crosshair mobo kinda have me sold

Just wondering as well, Is there much difference between 256 and 512 memory on gfx cards, cos last time I heard that most games werent utilising the gfx memory as much as possible.

So for a rough spec:

Asus Crosshair
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB
GT7900 GT

[Edit]
Heres a sample from whats available of overclockers:
MB-166-AS Asus CROSSHAIR nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-166-AS)
£134.99 £134.99
CP-168-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 2.20GHz (Socket AM2) - Retail (CP-168-AM)
£114.99 £114.99
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£169.99 £169.99
HD-078-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-078-SE)
£62.95 £125.90
GX-041-GW Gainward BLISS GeForce 7900 GS SILENT 512MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-041-GW)
£144.99 £144.99
[Edit]

So I guess that leaves me asking for reccomendation on some good ram that dosnt come at an extreme price (DDR2 6400), whats good in terms of silent cooling, and any other suggestion or opinions would be wecome

8T8

Originally 256MB vs 512MB there was no difference but things have changed and it is starting to make a slight difference but under certain conditions;
* A particular game
* Running at very high resolutions
* Running with AA/AF maxed out

So it's not easy to call but if the difference in price between the 256MB and 512MB model is not much get the 512MB model.

RAM need not be uber low latency RAM but it can help a bit in some areas. So get anything really that you are comfortable with price wise in the 2GB range. The real world difference between DDR2-533 (4200), 667 (5300) & 800 (6400) isn't major either.

Shop4memory have 2GB low latency DDR2-533 going for €217 a good buy as 2GB kits with slower timings are the same price on Komplett.

Silent cooling;
Using AMD stock retention mechanism Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro
Using own custom mounts - Zalman 9500

Cases fans;
Akasa Amber fans (example)

GPU cooling;
Zalman VF900

Oh and for any HD's in 5.25 bays these work wonders.

Edit: Those picks on OcUK seem fine nothing to worry about.

You Suck!

Lol, How things change.....

Ok, I've since held out for the 680i release and for budgetry reasons. You'll have guessed by now Im going conroe too

Still intent on the htpc case.....but now have some new conundrums

Now looking like....

P5N32-E SLI - Released tomorrow hopefully.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 4MB, BOXED w/fan (Do I have to chase certain weeks or are they all generally the same?)

Hiper Type-R 580W Black, Dual Fan, Silent 18db, 4xSATA, ATX, SLI, 20/24pin

The main problem now is..... 8800 which komplett has for 460.... or a decent 7900. I wouldn't normaly consider buying at lauch, but considering that the 8800 preforms better then a 7900 sli set up, It presents value for money. So now what to do.....

8T8

How time flies, yeah things have gotten a bit better with the SLI front & Core 2 thankfully.

Go for the 8800GTS there is no point buying a high end 7900 if you can afford the 8800 card it's better in every department at DX9, OpenGL & has good DX10 support plus better image quality than the 7 series.

If you get stuck waiting for the Asus the eVGA 680i SLI boards are already available on OcUK these are based of the NVIDIA reference boards so they don't skimp on any of the features.

You Suck!

Heh, the anticipation is building

Still waiting on the new asus p5 board......tho its been slow to surface, Komplett are as slow as a wet week, and ocuk aint been movin much faster.....ho hum The wait will be worth it Im sure. Thing is as well I have to buy from komplett for vat back as well.

Hurry up ye feckers!!!

Cheers for the gts advice, I have been tryin to weigh it up all right. Also theres been no slippage in dx9 cards pricewise so it's not looking like a bad move. Only problem is noise considerations. But Ill see whats possible.

8T8

The cooler on the 8800GTS (& GTX) are as quiet as the 7900GTX fan so noise should not be an issue.

challengemaster

dx 10 will be used in a few games atleast in 2007. eg. ut2k7.

also, cheapest dx10 card i can see atm on komplett is ~450

8T8

Doesn't really matter about DX10* even if you never use it, the GeForce 8 series is superior in every possible area over the GeForce 7 series if cost isn't a factor there is no reason not to get an 8800 over a 7900 series card.

* From which indications are the 8 series architecture is well suited to. NVIDIA have traditionally designed GPU's for current games rather than future games but the 8 series is definitely a break from that tradition.

You Suck!

Wh00t!

Finally starting to order kit, Heres what looks to be the final spec,

komplett wrote:

Qty Your Price Total

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 4MB, BOXED w/fan

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 322633
Stock status: 100+ stocked 330.02 330.02


Silverstone SST-LC01 HTPC, Silver Aluminium (Without PSU)

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 304114
Stock status: 2 stocked 185 185


Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 320709
Stock status: 100+ stocked 99.95 199.9


Hiper Type-R 580W Black, Dual Fan, Silent 18db, 4xSATA, ATX, SLI, 20/24pin

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 309565
Stock status: 8 stocked 122 122


XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 320-bit

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 327331
Stock status: 40 pcs expected on stock 2006-12-04 490 490

Noctua NH-U9, 4 Dual-Heat-Pipes, Socket 478/775/754/939/940(Without Fan 80/92mm)

- Surcharges 0 per item will be added.Article number: 320131
Stock status: 25 stocked

Memory: 2Gb GeIL DDR2 PC2-6400 Ultra CL4 Dual Channel kit

And mobo is gonna be: ASUS P5N32-E SLI

Now, current problem being where to get it, Ive checked most local retailers and it looks like nothing going, so Im gonna go for an american comp. Any one has any suggestions for a european retailer, Im all ears.

Also, is the xfx 8800 a decent buy or any probs I should know about.
And also any other potential problems please feel free to say.

Oh and thanks to all who've given advice in the thead to date. If I can afford the boards beers after this, theres a pint in it for ye

awhir

change cooler to Tuniq Tower.

secret_squirrel

There's an article on Tomshardware about the 8800/dx10 needing a monster cpu to get the best of out it. Migh be wise to give that a skim....

You Suck!

change cooler to Tuniq Tower.

Would love to....but it probably wouldn't fit in the silverstone htpc case. The tuniq is 150mm and the case is 159mm, I doubt that would work considering that the processor sits about 10-15 high.

There's an article on Tomshardware about the 8800/dx10 needing a monster cpu to get the best of out it. Migh be wise to give that a skim....

Saw that, but an e6600 overclocks seems to keep most happy at the moment, plus the upgrade path will be grand when quad cores become affordable....

secret_squirrel

You sure about all that hardware in a htpc case? Makes no sense to me

You're going to have major cooling problems if you arent careful.

I run a much bigger htcp case that that and would be very reluctant to put that much heat into it. Having said that I want almost complete silence from mine.

You Suck!

You sure about all that hardware in a htpc case? Makes no sense to me

You're going to have major cooling problems if you arent careful.

True, Im running the gauntlet, but I feel like having a go anyway. Im sick of towers

I run a much bigger htcp case

I thought that this was one of the bigger htpc cases.....All the same, It seems decent, so Ill just see how I get on, Hopefully it works out

secret_squirrel

You Suck! wrote:

Hopefully it works out

Good luck to ya!