Censorship

440Hz

I meant to post this a few days ago, but got distracted... I started this thread in the UL forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054995479 about some graffiti which was posted on a wall here in college.

The same day, just as they were cleaning it I decided to head down with the old click click (despite the drought) to capture the moment.. only to be told by a very cross cleaning man to clear off!!

Damn where are those press passes when you need em eh! And I was going to take my photo to the college rag as well. Damn those cleaners... I mean... why wouldnt anyone want a photo of that graffiti eh :rolleyes:

Seriously though, things are bad when you cant even take a photo anymore without getting told to clear off. ah well

slumped

cleaners were probably pissed off having to clean it up!

You could have asked permission before hand, but that's what some people are like!

I'd have stood my ground (i'm a little ignorant) and refused to stop shooting.

S

Fajitas!

Should have asked them why?

311

I was told to clear off a couple of weeks ago at a sport event ,the guy told me I was in a dangerous spot. I moved to a spot I considered safe and the same chap told me to go off somewhere else ,I told him I was in no danger and that I wasn't doing anything wrong. He left me alone after that.

I think if you let people know you are aware of any dangers ,you should be ok. Health and safety are the most important for a lot of people.

Zillah

440Hz wrote:

only to be told by a very cross cleaning man to clear off!!

Repeat after me: "No."

If he keeps insisting, say "Make me", or "Under who's authority?". I think you'll find they havn't a leg to stand on.

440Hz

Zillah wrote:

Repeat after me: "No."

If he keeps insisting, say "Make me", or "Under who's authority?". I think you'll find they havn't a leg to stand on.

Ohhh but im so timid and people scare me! I could NEVER say that. I just said sorry and ran off ... yeah i know.. ill never make it as a photographer, but hey, the mountains never give out

CONMIKE12

Ask why,if their reason makes no sense,pretend you can no longer see or hear them.

Peteee

440Hz wrote:

Ohhh but im so timid and people scare me! I could NEVER say that. I just said sorry and ran off ... yeah i know.. ill never make it as a photographer, but hey, the mountains never give out

Could you not have backed off and gotten a big zoom lens from somewhere and snap away

Or tell them your taking pictures of the spikes, then on the sly just snap away.

440Hz

CONMIKE12 wrote:

Ask why,if their reason makes no sense,pretend you can no longer see or hear them.

im pretty sure their reasons would have involved some lecture about Arbeit Macht Frei and Nazis so I thought it was easier to let it go. Altho, if we got into a Mastermind type argument about the special topic, im pretty sure Id have won

paudie

should have said you were shooting for An Focal

rymus

slumped wrote:

I'd have stood my ground (i'm a little ignorant) and refused to stop shooting.

Same here.. It's been said to be on a couple of occasions and I normally do feck off if I'm given a good reason. Otherwise I'll come back with something hugely witty like "go **** yourself" or perhaps even "no, piss off and let me get on with it". As for blue collar cleaners scrubbing a wall telling you to move it, I'd have first laughed, then asked him who the hell he was and then continued taking photos. In that order.

440Hz

rymus wrote:

As for blue collar cleaners scrubbing a wall telling you to move it, I'd have first laughed, then asked him who the hell he was and then continued taking photos. In that order.

lol! but he had a big brush!! and a water squirting thingy

Zillah

440Hz wrote:

Ohhh but im so timid and people scare me! I could NEVER say that. I just said sorry and ran off ... yeah i know.. ill never make it as a photographer, but hey, the mountains never give out

Then try the more passive route then! Shrug and say "Oh ok". Then move about ten feet away and keep snapping. If they say anything again get kinda miffed and go "ALRIGHT FINE!" and move another ten feet. Then move back a second later.

Fenster

I'd have backed off and kept snapping.

Zillah

Fenster wrote:

I'd have backed off and kept snapping.

I'd have told them to shove it and kept snapping

311

I'm not a singer or a dancer ,I work in construction . But if I was welding or something like that ,I wouldn't be able to do my work unless a certain area was clear.

Every person needs their workspace ,you don't interview a photographer while standing in front of their tripod ,while they are waiting for the lough ness monster to appear.

Sorry ,I'm a little over the weather at the mo ,drunk even.:p

Good night.

Fenster

Zillah wrote:

I'd have told them to shove it and kept snapping

Nah, I'm a fan of candid shots - go look at the birthday photos I uploaded, almost none are posed.

And candid shots don't work all that well if the subject is screaming bloody murder in your face.

Roen

rymus wrote:

Same here.. It's been said to be on a couple of occasions and I normally do feck off if I'm given a good reason. Otherwise I'll come back with something hugely witty like "go **** yourself" or perhaps even "no, piss off and let me get on with it". As for blue collar cleaners scrubbing a wall telling you to move it, I'd have first laughed, then asked him who the hell he was and then continued taking photos. In that order.

This from the moderator of the forum that is apparently not snobby? I hope that's a misguided attempt at humour.

rymus

no, just drawing from past experiences. If that makes me a snob I'll just go polish my monacle.

Roen

Windolene works a treat.

rymus

Seems like you know alot about it; A little bit too much perhaps.

Now... back on topic...

nitrogen

In times like these where you clearly have the right to take the image, just be aggressive and ignore whoever is trying to stop you. It's what photojournalists do. You're not breaking any law so feck them.

Roen

440Hz wrote:

I meant to post this a few days ago, but got distracted... I started this thread in the UL forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054995479 about some graffiti which was posted on a wall here in college.

The same day, just as they were cleaning it I decided to head down with the old click click (despite the drought) to capture the moment.. only to be told by a very cross cleaning man to clear off!!

Damn where are those press passes when you need em eh! And I was going to take my photo to the college rag as well. Damn those cleaners... I mean... why wouldnt anyone want a photo of that graffiti eh :rolleyes:

Seriously though, things are bad when you cant even take a photo anymore without getting told to clear off. ah well

It all depends on if you were taking a picture of the cleaners and the grafitti or just the grafitti without them in it. I know I wouldn't want to be photographed in behind the desk or if I go down on the factory floor from time to time. It's just a personal choice, maybe the cleaner shared that view and also didn't want to be photographed.
Another question to ask yourself is that 'is UL property public or private?' As far as I know UL is actually seperate to the University of Ireland e.g. Trinners, UCC, UCD. If it is public property you can snap away anyway, if it's private property then you have no right to take pics (unless the law has changed since I was in college).
Getting confrontational about it in response to his behaviour may have gotten you the shot, but will only be detrimental in the long run. The next time that guy has to deal with a photographer he'll probably tar them all with the same brush and be less than helpful. Same goes for any worker, be it in a gig or a sports venue.

Besides you have a 70-30mm IS, hide in a bush!

5uspect

You could have pulled the "I'm a member of UL staff" card since as a postgrad you are technically a staff member, That worked well when they tried to ban postgrads from the Milstream courtyard building's common room while similtaneously removing our tea making facilities in the ERB (now ye know where I live). We kicked up a big fuss about refusing to teach etc etc and got our way.

If the guy had a problem with being photographed ask him if he wouldn't mind stepping aside for the couple of seconds it takes to press a button. For anyone who doesn't know this wall its a big ugly thing planted outside the main entrance to the otherwise beautiful UL campus (pic attached - sorry its not very good tho) so its not like he's going to be anything more than a few pixels in any shot that contains the full thing.

I would just have crossed the road and snapped away.

EDIT: just noticed that you can see the remains of last bit of graffitti in that pic.

Peteee

5uspect wrote:

For anyone who doesn't know this wall its a big ugly thing planted outside the main entrance to the otherwise beautiful UL campus

They call it 'art' I believe!

Monkey

You should have told him you were writing an article for the Student union magazine about the college's vandalism problem.

sceptre

rymus wrote:

Same here.. It's been said to be on a couple of occasions and I normally do feck off if I'm given a good reason. Otherwise I'll come back with something hugely witty like "go **** yourself" or perhaps even "no, piss off and let me get on with it". As for blue collar cleaners scrubbing a wall telling you to move it, I'd have first laughed, then asked him who the hell he was and then continued taking photos. In that order.

I might well have run with letting the guy know I was on public property taking a picture of something legitimately viewable by the public and that I wasn't in the way (assuming this to be so) but then I don't necessarily consider someone a lesser (or superior) person merely because of what they do during the day.

As for Roen's comments, UL is private property taking account of a number of rights of way that exist but the best vantage point of the item in question would be on public property (probably in the middle of the road to be precise). Thw black and white thing is at or outside what most would consider to be the main gate (ignoring that they removed the pillars of the gates just under a decade ago, which was rather a pity). Obviously including the cleaning guy in the picture might be considered semi-rude but it depends on whether he's willing to get out of the way or not and it would have presumably have been easy to select a picture for potential publication where he couldn't have been identified.

Slightly regretful I didn't grab a pic myself when driving past. No cleaning people in sight but I was running late and wasn't that pushed.

5uspect

Peteee wrote:

They call it 'art' I believe!

Yeah but who decides that? I quite like the other pieces of art around the campus, brown thomas (AKA the rusty man) is great especially for photography but the wall is just plain dumb and poorly finished.

Roen

And where's the young lady that started all this debate?
Done a runner methinks

rymus

sceptre wrote:

but then I don't necessarily consider someone a lesser (or superior) person merely because of what they do during the day.

Neither do I, perhaps my previous post came off as if I do. Oops I suppose.

*waits around for the next flamebait thread to appear*

440Hz

Roen wrote:

And where's the young lady that started all this debate?
Done a runner methinks

LOL no, I was just away all weekend getting drunk and not taking any photographs!! Now tired, hungover and going to sleep cos I gotta teach at 9am sympathy??

Ill post a proper reply to this great debate tomorrow when I make up for sleep

lostexpectation

I have to say that to me someone wrote that taking the piss, being 'satirical' and for these people not to recognise that is typical , but its interesting that in germany this week a guy got fined or jailed for anti-nazi patches, which displayed a swatica crossed out...

440Hz

lostexpectation wrote:

I have to say that to me someone wrote that taking the piss, being 'satirical' and for these people not to recognise that is typical , but its interesting that in germany this week a guy got fined or jailed for anti-nazi patches, which displayed a swatica crossed out...

Oh i have no doubt someone wrote it in a drunken state trying to be humourous but that is still worthy of a shot!!

And to reply to previous points... I had no interest in shooting the cleaner, just wanted to get the graffiti. But I do take the point that perhaps he did not want to be photographed. I did come back later on thinking he might be gone home but he was still there cleaning and half the writing was gone by then as well. So I gave up.

JMcL

This has probably been discussed here, but I can't remember it recently, but does anybody know where the law stands on photographing people here? In the UK it's a bit wooly (AFAIK you can shoot people in the street, but with subjective limitations). In France you legally can't shoot anybody without their consent, even people in the background - parisians can apparently be particularly bolshie about asserting this right. Actually in France, you can be done for taking photos of buildings - the architect owns the copyright - this includes the lights on the Eiffel tower. I think this only applies if you plan to profit from the pics.

parsi

Based on my travels through France no-one gives a dammn ! I've never been stopped for taking pictures be they of trains, planes, buildings, odd few people (not few odd people)...