FF and Agriculture

road_high

What people think of this current govt and their attidude to agriculture?
It hasn't been great IMO; they have presided over the loss of our Sugar Industry and the flight form the land has accelerated under them.
Wonder how farmers will vote next time? I'd say FG will make big gains.
Tom Parlon, the self-appointed 'farmers friend' will I hope loose his seat.

I think its attitude is about the same as any other government's.
Government is about compromise,especially coalition.


That said, if theres a minister in this government that made a haims of Agriculture,its Dick Roche(him and Teagasc) and his ridiculous interpretation of the nitrates directive.He wont be getting my vote thats for sure.I mean how is Agriculture in this country to compete on a level playing field with the rest of the world who are just as intensive and have none of the restrictions?

Dont get me started on the paperwork that Ireland in particular has invented that even the rest of Europe doesnt impose as strictly and is non existant with our Non EU competitors.

As for the sugar industry,You can blame Mandelson for that.We're just a small voice in Europe now, theres no more of this punching above our weight.

maidhc

I think FF, and most other political parties are loosing interest in farming and farmers. The percentage of GNP is falling all the time, and there are fewer and fewer farmers to cast votes.

The failure to make any movement on alternative energy is appaling though, and as said above the obnoxious attempt at transposing the nitrates directive is unforgivable.

In fairness to Parlon, since he joined the PDs their tent at the ploughing has improved dramatically. Last year they had lovely coffee and top class biscuits!

Manoffeeling

Big changes since this thread was posted.

Tipp Man

Well ff have a right bloody socialist in Agri now

He'd be better off in Sinn Fein or the socialist party

freedominacup

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well ff have a right bloody socialist in Agri now

He'd be better off in Sinn Fein or the socialist party

Nope he fits right in with FF policy and tradition. He's only trotting after his grandad.

maxxuumman

I remember before the last election, just as agriculture was starting to get it's feet under itself, being maddened by posters of Mr Martin walking through fields canvasing to farmers. Prior to that the only thing they thought a field was good for was a building site. A few years earlier when farmers were working 7 days a week to scrape a living, we were being laughed at by the Celtic Tiger crew.

badshot

maxxuumman wrote: »

I remember before the last election, just as agriculture was starting to get it's feet under itself, being maddened by posters of Mr Martin walking through fields canvasing to farmers. Prior to that the only thing they thought a field was good for was a building site. A few years earlier when farmers were working 7 days a week to scrape a living, we were being laughed at by the Celtic Tiger crew.

spot on

freedominacup

Stop picking on FF now lads or Rancher will be along and we'll all be subjected to a bit of "re-education" FF style where we'll learn the error of our ways a be properly indoctrinated in the correct interepretation of FF policy.

moy83

Has anyone been to o Cuiv's meetings about the SFP ?

rancher

freedominacup wrote: »

Stop picking on FF now lads or Rancher will be along and we'll all be subjected to a bit of "re-education" FF style where we'll learn the error of our ways a be properly indoctrinated in the correct interepretation of FF policy.

How do you reckon I'm a FF supporter.......big mistake

bbam

Anyone worried about the increasing popularity of the shinners?
Haven't they muted the fairness of land taxes irrespective of profit?

I think the current government are less interested in all things Agri, not that anyone has properly supported it in quite a while.

mf240

bbam wrote: »

Anyone worried about the increasing popularity of the shinners?
Haven't they muted the fairness of land taxes irrespective of profit?

I think the current government are less interested in all things Agri, not that anyone has properly supported it in quite a while.

Theyll find it very hard to get another party to go in with them.

Labour will be punished hard at the next election if they continue to be seen to be just making up the numbers for F.G. this might help the shinners a bit.

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

Has anyone been to o Cuiv's meetings about the SFP ?

No, but I wouldn't mind attending one to hear what's going on.

Tipp Man

bbam wrote: »

Anyone worried about the increasing popularity of the shinners?
Haven't they muted the fairness of land taxes irrespective of profit?

I think the current government are less interested in all things Agri, not that anyone has properly supported it in quite a while.

God help us if and when shinners get power

They are dangerous and will ruin this country even more

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

God help us if and when shinners get power

They are dangerous and will ruin this country even more

agree 100% but what do ye suggest realistically to improve the current situation?

pakalasa

I can see another political party being formed in the near future. There's a vacuum there at the moment, that most reasonable people fear will be filled by SF.

Dont be daft

maxxuumman wrote: »

Prior to that the only thing they thought a field was good for was a building site. A few years earlier when farmers were working 7 days a week to scrape a living, we were being laughed at by the Celtic Tiger crew.

So true. And now they're singing our praises as the exports literally keep the country going.

bbam wrote: »

Anyone worried about the increasing popularity of the shinners?
Haven't they muted the fairness of land taxes irrespective of profit?

The land tax is only a matter of time, not of political party. Labour would do it right now if they had the Dail to themselves.
Once the property tax is well established its a natural progression to start taxing land.

pakalasa wrote: »

I can see another political party being formed in the near future. There's a vacuum there at the moment, that most reasonable people fear will be filled by SF.

Michael McDowell has hinted that he would be interested in helping one to become established. Whether he'd lead it is a mystery.
Whether they'd place any emphasis on farming is an even bigger mystery.

whelan1

do ye think there will be a general election this year?

20silkcut

Would rather see ff and FG in coalition and give us a decent government with parties of somewhat similar ideologies.

whelan1

according to lmfm today mairead mc guinness will contest for fg for the seat left vacant by the death of shane mc entee

epfff

whelan1 wrote: »

do ye think there will be a general election this year?

Nope
no side has the heart for it

saranac1

I was at an o cuiv sfp meeting, it was productive and informative, he is very concerned with European views on protecting important structures like new grange burren etc and if we don't protect them serious fines coming. He's all for pillar 2 but it depends on the budget and finance bill in new year and how it will affect sfp and young farmers getting started pre 2014

moy83

saranac1 wrote: »

I was at an o cuiv sfp meeting, it was productive and informative, he is very concerned with European views on protecting important structures like new grange burren etc and if we don't protect them serious fines coming. He's all for pillar 2 but it depends on the budget and finance bill in new year and how it will affect sfp and young farmers getting started pre 2014

Who else was speaking at it ? O Cuiv talks a great game about anything but I wouldnt take everything as gospel from him either .
Was there anyone from the United Farmers Accosiation speaking ?

Conmaicne Mara

I'd love to compare & contrast. Attend one of his meetings in Galway, and another well away from Galway. Is there a list of them I wonder or are they over?

moy83

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I'd love to compare & contrast. Attend one of his meetings in Galway, and another well away from Galway. Is there a list of them I wonder or are they over?

I would be pretty sure that he wont be down the sunny southeast telling the big farmers that they dont deserve a penny because the poor small farmers in the west need all the envelope from europe

Manoffeeling

20silkcut wrote: »

Would rather see ff and FG in coalition and give us a decent government with parties of somewhat similar ideologies.

Do you not know what has happened here in the last few years?

hugo29

bbam wrote: »

Anyone worried about the increasing popularity of the shinners?
Haven't they muted the fairness of land taxes irrespective of profit?

I think the current government are less interested in all things Agri, not that anyone has properly supported it in quite a while.

Yes very worried, if they ever got a sniff of power the country would go down the tubes

hugo29

whelan1 wrote: »

do ye think there will be a general election this year?

I hope not, give sf time to mess up, was always wondering why the ifa don't form a party,

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

I would be pretty sure that he wont be down the sunny southeast telling the big farmers that they dont deserve a penny because the poor small farmers in the west need all the envelope from europe

It would be an interesting exercise all the same. Not sure he'd be that bad, but I'd be interested in hearing what's added in or taken out, depending on location.

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

I would be pretty sure that he wont be down the sunny southeast telling the big farmers that they dont deserve a penny because the poor small farmers in the west need all the envelope from europe

Where are these big farmers in the sunny south east. We farm 150 acres all of which was bought by my father or myself on the open market. Wehave a substantial SFP but it all goes on bank repayments. Why should I have a moments concern for any imagined disadvantages western farmers believe they have? and why should they get any access to the SFP we generated here? We had 10% of our milk quota robbed in '84 to be sent Wesht and they still haven't managed to fill the f**kn thing:mad:. Could I even get a chance to buy it back? Not on your Nelly. So basically if you wanted a bigger SFP you should have worked harder in the nineties but hands off mine I earned it you didn't. After 2015 I'll probably feel a bit different if even the reasonably benign scenarios come to fruition for the post quota world. Until then hands off go and get your own.

20silkcut

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Do you not know what has happened here in the last few years?

I just believe a divided right is good for the socialists.

Labour should not be within an asses roar of govt but are because of civil war politics which still persist incredibly.

Labour/ sinn féin with a strong voice in govt would finish farming in this country in a decade if they got the chance.

Remember gilmore and members of the former workers party used to go on fact finding tours of the old USSR and describe it as paradise.

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

Where are these big farmers in the sunny south east. We farm 150 acres all of which was bought by my father or myself on the open market. Wehave a substantial SFP but it all goes on bank repayments. Why should I have a moments concern for any imagined disadvantages western farmers believe they have? and why should they get any access to the SFP we generated here? We had 10% of our milk quota robbed in '84 to be sent Wesht and they still haven't managed to fill the f**kn thing:mad:. Could I even get a chance to buy it back? Not on your Nelly. So basically if you wanted a bigger SFP you should have worked harder in the nineties but hands off mine I earned it you didn't. After 2015 I'll probably feel a bit different if even the reasonably benign scenarios come to fruition for the post quota world. Until then hands off go and get your own.

Lol, get real.

You're working a Government scheme, you're not generating that money at all, and the EU commissioner would have issues with you saying it belongs to you And fair play to him as well with that attitude.

freedominacup

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Lol, get real.

You're working a Government scheme, you're not generating that money at all, and the EU commissioner would have issues with you saying it belongs to you And fair play to him as well with that attitude.

Who does it belong to? Because I assume the same person "owns" your SFP as well. What attitude?

I'm certainly not generating it now but the initial entitlement was generated/developed/initiated pick your poison by my father and I, why should anyone else have any right to benefit from that effort?

Tipp Man

20silkcut wrote: »

I just believe a divided right is good for the socialists.

Labour should not be within an asses roar of govt but are because of civil war politics which still persist incredibly.

Labour/ sinn féin with a strong voice in govt would finish farming in this country in a decade if they got the chance.

Remember gilmore and members of the former workers party used to go on fact finding tours of the old USSR and describe it as paradise.

Wonders may never cease

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1229/1224328252310.html

moy83

freedominacup wrote: »

Where are these big farmers in the sunny south east. We farm 150 acres all of which was bought by my father or myself on the open market. Wehave a substantial SFP but it all goes on bank repayments. Why should I have a moments concern for any imagined disadvantages western farmers believe they have? and why should they get any access to the SFP we generated here? We had 10% of our milk quota robbed in '84 to be sent Wesht and they still haven't managed to fill the f**kn thing:mad:. Could I even get a chance to buy it back? Not on your Nelly. So basically if you wanted a bigger SFP you should have worked harder in the nineties but hands off mine I earned it you didn't. After 2015 I'll probably feel a bit different if even the reasonably benign scenarios come to fruition for the post quota world. Until then hands off go and get your own.

Calm down there freedom , this thread is about FF in agriculture not who should get who's sfp in the future .
My post there was about what kind of stuff FF and o Cuiv were spouting at these meetings just to gain future votes .
Im not looking for any of your sfp we get enough to tick over here , whats your plan for the bank repayments in 2015 if the sfp goes west or worse still vanishes ?

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

Who does it belong to? Because I assume the same person "owns" your SFP as well. What attitude?

I'm certainly not generating it now but the initial entitlement was generated/developed/initiated pick your poison by my father and I, why should anyone else have any right to benefit from that effort?

It belongs to the taxpayer, it's the EU and Government decides how it's spent and it'll be as easily taken from you as the right to farm legally owned lands in disadvantaged areas has been taken away in the West. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

All the big farmers are doing with backing Coveney and IFA are egging on another Government scheme lol, then bitching about other farmers who oppose that just to survive. Well we're not facing just a reduction in SFP, we're facing annihilation and I've read and heard way more than enough from IFA, Coveney and some other Irish farmers to know where my sympahies lie, and that's with the folk in the same boat as me and none other. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

You've said it yourself, you're not generating it now, you want payment for something that doesn't exist, it's a scheme written down with a pen and another pen will end it when the writer feels like doing so. You made an investment on the back on a Govt scheme, how is that different from any of the developers tell me? Now you want the SFP to pay loans you took out?

On the point on working, a lot of farmers West of the Shannon and elsewhere weren't allowed to farm, legal designations were put on our lands, so you know what you can do with your charge of laziness.

There are no "rights" in this, only what's gifted from the EU and Government.

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

Calm down there freedom , this thread is about FF in agriculture not who should get who's sfp in the future .
My post there was about what kind of stuff FF and o Cuiv were spouting at these meetings just to gain future votes .
Im not looking for any of your sfp we get enough to tick over here , whats your plan for the bank repayments in 2015 if the sfp goes west or worse still vanishes ?

Milk more cows and cross everything, eyes, legs, arms the whole lot. Could make doing the milking a bit difficult.

I get ticked off with the whole Wesht thing because it's so arbitrary. I was in college with a guy from Sligo back in the day. We were milking the same number of cows at the time though his yields were slightly higher. Over the past 20 years they have trebled cow numbers and increased yields by 60-70%. Quota was irrelevant to them we on the other hand have been completely constrained by it. So TBH anyone crying about the difficulties of farming west of the shannon is looking in the wrong direction for sympathy here.

freedominacup

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

you want payment for something that doesn't exist,

What do you want payment for?

I at least did something at some point to earn/generate my entitlement, you on the other hand want money simply for turning up it seems.

moy83

freedominacup wrote: »

Milk more cows and cross everything, eyes, legs, arms the whole lot. Could make doing the milking a bit difficult.

I get ticked off with the whole Wesht thing because it's so arbitrary. I was in college with a guy from Sligo back in the day. We were milking the same number of cows at the time though his yields were slightly higher. Over the past 20 years they have trebled cow numbers and increased yields by 60-70%. Quota was irrelevant to them we on the other hand have been completely constrained by it. So TBH anyone crying about the difficulties of farming west of the shannon is looking in the wrong direction for sympathy here.

I wasnt crying about our difficulties in my post or looking for sympathy from you or anyone else .
Some farmer in sligo that trebles his milking herd is very different to a hill farmer in conemara that was made destock his hill of sheep .

bbam

freedominacup wrote: »

What do you want payment for?

I at least did something at some point to earn/generate my entitlement, you on the other hand want money simply for turning up it seems.

freedominacup wrote: »

Where are these big farmers in the sunny south east. We farm 150 acres all of which was bought by my father or myself on the open market. Wehave a substantial SFP but it all goes on bank repayments. Why should I have a moments concern for any imagined disadvantages western farmers believe they have? and why should they get any access to the SFP we generated here? We had 10% of our milk quota robbed in '84 to be sent Wesht and they still haven't managed to fill the f**kn thing:mad:. Could I even get a chance to buy it back? Not on your Nelly. So basically if you wanted a bigger SFP you should have worked harder in the nineties but hands off mine I earned it you didn't. After 2015 I'll probably feel a bit different if even the reasonably benign scenarios come to fruition for the post quota world. Until then hands off go and get your own.

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Lol, get real.

You're working a Government scheme, you're not generating that money at all, and the EU commissioner would have issues with you saying it belongs to you And fair play to him as well with that attitude.

freedominacup wrote: »

Who does it belong to? Because I assume the same person "owns" your SFP as well. What attitude?

I'm certainly not generating it now but the initial entitlement was generated/developed/initiated pick your poison by my father and I, why should anyone else have any right to benefit from that effort?

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

It belongs to the taxpayer, it's the EU and Government decides how it's spent and it'll be as easily taken from you as the right to farm legally owned lands in disadvantaged areas has been taken away in the West. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

All the big farmers are doing with backing Coveney and IFA are egging on another Government scheme lol, then bitching about other farmers who oppose that just to survive. Well we're not facing just a reduction in SFP, we're facing annihilation and I've read and heard way more than enough from IFA, Coveney and some other Irish farmers to know where my sympahies lie, and that's with the folk in the same boat as me and none other. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

You've said it yourself, you're not generating it now, you want payment for something that doesn't exist, it's a scheme written down with a pen and another pen will end it when the writer feels like doing so. You made an investment on the back on a Govt scheme, how is that different from any of the developers tell me? Now you want the SFP to pay loans you took out?

On the point on working, a lot of farmers West of the Shannon and elsewhere weren't allowed to farm, legal designations were put on our lands, so you know what you can do with your charge of laziness.

There are no "rights" in this, only what's gifted from the EU and Government.

This is why I believe that the sooner the damn SFP is gone the better..
Feckin obsessed with the damn thing... Farming to get a big one, looking for someone else's, land being let but holding the payment.. It had the whole farming mentality screwed up..

Maybe without it lads would farm to make a profit, non viable farms would come to the wall and be bought out by profitable farmers...

I'm not saying it would be easy... but after the initial chaos it would be better for us all..

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

I wasnt crying about our difficulties in my post or looking for sympathy from you or anyone else .
Some farmer in sligo that trebles his milking herd is very different to a hill farmer in conemara that was made destock his hill of sheep .

In fairness to you Moy and quite a number of other posters from that part of the world ye seem to just crack on with it and would appear to do a professional job producing a quality product. There are others who believe that ownership of land entitles them to earn a living regardless of how they run their businesses and these are the ones who trot out the Wesht line every time. It does farmers like you no service at all.With regards to the hill farmer and the dairy guy it's like the line about the "eight million stories in the naked city" neither of them tell the full story.

BTW the last thing you or anyone else like you needs is any form of endorsement from a guy like me, in case anything else in this post comes off as patronising.

Farmer Pudsey

SFP have a huge issue to resolve over the next year or two. The last reference years saw a transfer away from farmers selling there calves as weanlings/yearlings. It also has the issue that it was orginally intended to support beef production. With reps effectivity gone and Disadvantaged area being constantly reduced it is the main support mechnism. The other issue is how to target active farmers as opposed to the money ending up in the hands of people who rent there land. It is also crazy that a farmer is paid by what happened over 10 years ago.

O'Cuiv and FF have not got a good record here if the boom had continued they would have all land covered in concrete. They rolled over to the greens re calander farming and nitrates. There nitrates plan was to transfer carbon footprint from farming to building/transport.

It is also hard to justify some of the huge payments that are in place while other active farmers recieve nothing. Is it right that a farmer that may be semi-retired/retired is being paid on cattle slaughtered 10-12 years ago or bullocks that grazed his farm at the same time.

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Is it right that a farmer that may be semi-retired/retired is being paid on cattle slaughtered 10-12 years ago or bullocks that grazed his farm at the same time.

Do you know something maybe it is. If he wasn't getting that payment he might well be half-farming that bit of ground reducing the pool available to active farmers and at the same time competing with you in the mart to buy cattle. I'm just saying maybe

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

What do you want payment for?

I at least did something at some point to earn/generate my entitlement, you on the other hand want money simply for turning up it seems.

Well done, you want to continue getting paid on something you or someone belonging to you done over a decade ago. Way to go. That's just an IFA crutch.

I get feck all SFP so I'm not bothered whether it get's pulled in the morning really. I want designations off my farm so I am free to farm it or I want suitable recompense for those designations.

You say I want something for turning up, it proves how little you know about the situation of hill farming in this country.

But sure, as long as you're alright Jack

freedominacup

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Well done, you want to continue getting paid on something you or someone belonging to you done over a decade ago. Way to go. That's just an IFA crutch.

I get feck all SFP so I'm not bothered whether it get's pulled in the morning really. I want designations off my farm so I am free to farm it or I want suitable recompense for those designations.

You say I want something for turning up, it proves how little you know about the situation of hill farming in this country.

But sure, as long as you're alright Jack

I know as much about hill farming as you do about farming where I come from.

And as I said before why would I give half-a-f**k what happens to hill farmers in the west of Ireland.

I want SFP and all other schemes dismantled. If people like you believe you are owed a living because you own some farm land work away and make your case to whomever you think will listen. But keep the fallout from it away from me.

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

imagined disadvantages western farmers believe they have?

Your words, I never looked for sympathy nor support from you.

freedominacup wrote: »

We farm 150 acres all of which was bought by my father or myself on the open market.

You'd swear the rest of us had it fall into our lap. Aside from 6 hectares I bought and paid for everything I own, thanks very much.

freedominacup wrote: »

I know as much about hill farming as you do about farming where I come from.

And as I said before why would I give half-a-f**k what happens to hill farmers in the west of Ireland.

I want SFP and all other schemes dismantled. If people like you believe you are owed a living because you own some farm land work away and make your case to whomever you think will listen. But keep the fallout from it away from me.

I replied to your posts, never claimed to know a thing about you or your farm. For a fella that wants SFP gone you're fairly uptight about hanging on to it in this thread?

freedominacup

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

You'd swear the rest of us had it fall into our lap. Aside from 6 hectares I bought and paid for everything I own, thanks very much.



I replied to your posts, never claimed to know a thing about you or your farm. For a fella that wants SFP gone you're fairly uptight about hanging on to it in this thread?

I wasn't the one who opened or chimed in with digs about farmers in the sunny southeast and implied that they had it so handy. Nor was I pulling out the violins for those "facing annihilation". Farmers in the wesht have faced "annihilation" so many times at this stage ye should be well used to handling it. Every second season it would seem some group or other of western farmers are facing "annihilation" be it weather, prices, govt schemes, E.U. schemes somebody is always out to get ye:rolleyes:.

You certainly claimed enough knowledge about the actions of "big farmers" in other parts of the country.

And you're damn right I'm uptight about hanging on to it as long as govt agencies are dictating what I can produce they will pay for the privilige. Once they take their nose out of my affairs I couldn't care less what they do with their payment.

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

And you're damn right I'm uptight about hanging on to it as long as govt agencies are dictating what I can produce they will pay for the privilige. Once they take their nose out of my affairs I couldn't care less what they do with their payment.

Complete me feinism. You're wound up about Govt interference in your farm and yet cast snide comments about other farmers wanting money for "turning up".

You can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

I've been honest from the outset about this. My farm is designated, like a lot more, so I expect proper recompense for the artificial restrictions that disallow me from farming my farm.

Yet you expect me to play on the same field as you, when it's clear thanks to those designations (plus poor land and worse weather but that's an aside) I am not being allowed to produce.

I "turn up" every day, and I do what needs to be done, and if I do more than that I won't be rewarded, completely the opposite, I'll be fined audited and inspected.

How much of these "production payments" will be going on 11 and 12 landcrusiers I wonder?

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

Do you know something maybe it is. If he wasn't getting that payment he might well be half-farming that bit of ground reducing the pool available to active farmers and at the same time competing with you in the mart to buy cattle. I'm just saying maybe

But this is what many of them are doing nice little SFP keep 1 bullock to two acres cut a bit of hay ( last year was not great for them) sell surplus and boy do they drive the price of bullocks.