abortion or not?

infinita

I am 26 years old and married. As someone said here,to be pregnant is not the end of world.But it could bitter the difficulties.
This is my first pregnancy and everyone seems happy for it,especially my mum.However,I am planning to go back school for post-graduate study next year and to have a baby may prolong this project for up to 3 years.I don't know if i could possibly realise my own dreams when I am still young enough. I want to educate my child very well on my own,which requires a great deal of time to do so.Actually I have many dreams...and a bit ambitious in my career as well.
Besides,i have never been interested in having children.
but to do abortion will break my mum's heart. and i will feel extremely guilty for that.
what can i do???

Miss Fluff

What about your husband?

SoupyNorman

To be honest you dont seem to have any credible ground to base the abortion on.

Ickle Magoo

Just what I was thinking Miss Fluff...

OP, you want to continue your studies & not upset your Mum but no mention of how aborting his child would affect your husband or marriage? Talk it through & discuss all your worries with your husband first.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what about adoption?

but really, it's your foetus.. do what you want with it. what if you end up resenting the baby for ruining your chance of an education ... could happen. I'm sure I've seen it happen on television.

tbh

I think there are certain circumstances which justify a woman having an abortion if she wants one, but not these circumstances. It's up to you, and it's no-one elses business, really, except for your husband, but you know sometimes life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.


whoah.

it's like John Lennon was thinking of you when he wrote that.

Beruthiel

infinita wrote:

I am 26 years old and married. As someone said here,to be pregnant is not the end of world.But it could bitter the difficulties.
This is my first pregnancy and everyone seems happy for it,especially my mum.However,I am planning to go back school for post-graduate study next year and to have a baby may prolong this project for up to 3 years.I don't know if i could possibly realise my own dreams when I am still young enough. I want to educate my child very well on my own,which requires a great deal of time to do so.Actually I have many dreams...and a bit ambitious in my career as well.
Besides,i have never been interested in having children.
but to do abortion will break my mum's heart. and i will feel extremely guilty for that.
what can i do???

I'm a tad confused.
Can you answer a few questions:

Why would you tell your mother that you were pregnant if you were thinking of abortion?
How does your husband feel about this?
How do you feel about getting an abortion?

There is never a right time to have a child, once you have one, you can work around it and still continue to do all the things you want to. It may take a bit longer and require effort, but it can be done.
You do not seem to have made up your mind either way, so I suggest you think long and hard about it and your husband must be 100% involved in this decision.

Darragh29

infinita wrote:

I am 26 years old and married. As someone said here,to be pregnant is not the end of world.But it could bitter the difficulties.
This is my first pregnancy and everyone seems happy for it,especially my mum.However,I am planning to go back school for post-graduate study next year and to have a baby may prolong this project for up to 3 years.I don't know if i could possibly realise my own dreams when I am still young enough. I want to educate my child very well on my own,which requires a great deal of time to do so.Actually I have many dreams...and a bit ambitious in my career as well.
Besides,i have never been interested in having children.
but to do abortion will break my mum's heart. and i will feel extremely guilty for that.
what can i do???

To be honest, I find your post so incredibly selfish that I am actually having difficulty responding to it. All I can say is that I hope you do have your child and maybe give it up for adoption and I'm only making that comment in the interests of your child, so that he or she might actually survive your career plans and your "many dreams". I don't want to get into an abortion -v- anti-abortion debate with you or anyone else on here, but your OP has a particularly self-centered flavour to it, that I've so rarely seen before, that I'm literally stuck for words in replying...

Owen

If you don't want the baby, have your abortion. And I think others calling you selfish is ridiculous. What do they expect? That you put your life on hold, forget about any dreams you've promised yourself, never have disposable income again, and spend the next 20 years attending to your baby's every whim and cry for help?

It's dependent on how long you're pregnant, but if it's only a few weeks and at the early stage, don't feel guilty for wanting your life to be just that. YOUR LIFE. No one elses to judge, or criticise.

LadyJ

Sometimes,even though we might not feel ready for what life throws our way,it turns out that we wouldn't have it any other way when we look back.

Having this baby could be the best thing that's ever happened to you. However,not having it could be even better. Who knows?

Either way,life will fall into place around your decision.

Talk to your husband about it. It's between the two of you,no one else. Personally,I don't think a couple should ever have to justify wanting to have an abortion,whether they're married and earning or not. It's a very personal thing so don't worry if people aren't supportive or if they think you're making a bad move. It's no one's choice but your's and your husband's.

Some people can cope with aborting a child and with others it can really have a bad effect on them afterwards. You won't know until you do it. So if you have the abortion just make sure you get councelling afterwards,even if you feel fine. Better to deal with it head on.

ned78 wrote:

If you don't want the baby, have your abortion. And I think others calling you selfish is ridiculous. What do they expect? That you put your life on hold, forget about any dreams you've promised yourself, never have disposable income again, and spend the next 20 years attending to your baby's every whim and cry for help?

It's dependent on how long you're pregnant, but if it's only a few weeks and at the early stage, don't feel guilty for wanting your life to be just that. YOUR LIFE. No one elses to judge, or criticise.

Agreed. To succeed in life,sometimes we have to make "selfish" decisions. Doesn't make us bad people. Life is not so black and white.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Jumpy

Wow, 7 whole posts before the right to lifers invade.

Why do you guys always start by insulting people, that sort of crap wont work.

Now before you post again, how about you rewrite your post into something that questions why the OP would go down what sounds like the eaiest route, but in fact may cause her to regret her decision for the rest of her life.
That lends more creedence to an argument than getting the OP's back up.

Beruthiel

infinita
Am I correct in thinking you are Chinese (your comment on another thread made me think this)
Am I also correct in thinking that in China, abortion is no big deal over there, so much so that government sometimes steps in to help keep the population down?
As this is an irish web site, abortion in Ireland is an emotive subject and you will not get the same answers here that you would from your home country. (Apologies if I'm wrong about you being chinese)

Jumpy
Leave the moderating to the moderators please.

Khannie

ned78 wrote:

others calling you selfish is ridiculous. What do they expect? That you put your life on hold, forget about any dreams you've promised yourself, never have disposable income again, and spend the next 20 years attending to your baby's every whim and cry for help?

You obviously haven't a clue what's involved when a child comes along.

As a parent, I can assure you of the following:

Life does not go on hold (except maybe for the first few weeks).
Dreams are still achievable.
Disposable income may decline, but saying that you'll never have disposable income again is absolutely ridiculous.
Spending 20 years attending to whims and cry's is also absolutely ridiculous as a suggestion.

What about watching your child grow?
Feeding its imagination?
Sharing a laugh together over breakfast?
Having him / her tell you that you're the best mum in the world?


Edit: Have you considered having the child, and putting it up for adoption? There are a lot of people out there who would be delighted to have a baby in their lives.

Darragh29

ned78 wrote:

If you don't want the baby, have your abortion. And I think others calling you selfish is ridiculous. What do they expect? That you put your life on hold, forget about any dreams you've promised yourself, never have disposable income again, and spend the next 20 years attending to your baby's every whim and cry for help?

It's dependent on how long you're pregnant, but if it's only a few weeks and at the early stage, don't feel guilty for wanting your life to be just that. YOUR LIFE. No one elses to judge, or criticise.

Just want to point out that this is the year 2006 and not 1906. If you have a child and you want to return to education or further your education, the support is there for you in abundance, actually there is more support there for you than if you were childless and wanted to return to education, so this whole, "I have a career, I have dreams" nonsense is just a cop-out. Just for your information, my best friend had her first child last December having just finished her degree, she is a single mother, her child is turning one this December and she is starting her post-grad this week, no problem to her, no need to push out her studies by 3-4 years and her baby is by far the best thing that has ever happened her. In your case you have the support of a husband, but you sound like you just couldn't be arsed with the hassle of a baby. I'm sorry if I sound over judgemental but I simply cannot get over how you are considering having an abortion on the basis of what you have stated in your OP...

Khannie

Darragh29 wrote:

I'm sorry if I sound over judgemental but I simply cannot get over how you are considering having an abortion on the basis of what you have stated in your OP...

In fairness, as Beruthiel pointed out, it may be a cultural difference.

Darragh29

Jumpy wrote:

Wow, 7 whole posts before the right to lifers invade.

Why do you guys always start by insulting people, that sort of crap wont work.

Now before you post again, how about you rewrite your post into something that questions why the OP would go down what sounds like the eaiest route, but in fact may cause her to regret her decision for the rest of her life.
That lends more creedence to an argument than getting the OP's back up.

I'm not coming at this from what you might call a classical "pro-life" angle. If the OP came on here and said she was 18 and single and had a one night stand with a guy she doesn't know and just couldn't cope with having a child, I wouldn't say she is selfish coming on here and talk about having an abortion. I wouldn't even disagree with her wish to have an abortion. However this is the not the case with the OP or anywhere near it. The OP sounds like she just couldn't be arsed having a baby.

Darragh29

Khannie wrote:

In fairness, as Beruthiel pointed out, it may be a cultural difference.

Yeah I accept that although the jury is still out on that possibility, but if he is correct, it's a very good piece of detective work on Beruthiel's part. I have to point out all the same that the OP is in Ireland and not China and she should acquaint herself with the support that is available to her should she wish to have her child. I actually hope that it is a cultural difference that is at work here, because it is the only excuse or saving grace that I can come up with for the OP having the attitude that she has on the subject.

ferdi

well you can go back to school AND have the child but if you dont want to put yourself out...

Sam Vimes

i wish abortion had never been invented. at what point does it stop being ok to kill your baby because its inconvenient? can we try it out for six months and send it back to the manufacturer if we don't like it?


fair enough, you don't want to raise a child at the moment. you don't have to. my mother and father were both in college and weren't together. they couldn't look after a child so they gave me up for adoption. my parents (the people who raised me are my parents) couldn't have children but desperately wanted them.

because of my natural parents and another woman, my sister and i were raised by parents who are approved by the state. no one else can say the state made their parents pass rigourous tests before they were allowed to take them home.

you can take nine months out of your life, give a childless couple the greatest gift its possible to give and then get on with your plans for your life. the choices aren't raise the child or kill it

LundiMardi

infinita wrote:

I am 26 years old and married. As someone said here,to be pregnant is not the end of world.But it could bitter the difficulties.
This is my first pregnancy and everyone seems happy for it,especially my mum.However,I am planning to go back school for post-graduate study next year and to have a baby may prolong this project for up to 3 years.I don't know if i could possibly realise my own dreams when I am still young enough. I want to educate my child very well on my own,which requires a great deal of time to do so.Actually I have many dreams...and a bit ambitious in my career as well.
Besides,i have never been interested in having children.
but to do abortion will break my mum's heart. and i will feel extremely guilty for that.
what can i do???

Do you mind me asking....

What contraception were you using when you became pregnant? I ask this because in my own opinion, if you were having sex with your partner, with no contraception then it is rather unreasonable to have an abortion as you put yourself in this situation. I personally, can understand if a person wants an abortion had they taken EVERY other precaution available and still fallen pregnant. My issue is with people using abortion as a contraception, which it is not.

So yeah, that's my question:)

As others have said, why not give this child up for adoption, you can give a person life and give another couple the chance of having their own child and raising it as their own. Why kill something when really there is no need...

Both have their cons...

Abortion - You will feel guilty for your mother, and you will more than likely feel guilty for the abortion itself... so pain either way
Adoption - You will have to give up your child

Which pain would you rather feel?

Also, if your mother is so excited for you, why not explain to her your concerns, i am sure she would rather help you succeed with your education and help take care of the child, rather than just have her grand child destroyed just because it's not the 'right time'.

Sam Vimes

LundiMardi wrote:

Abortion - You will feel guilty for your mother, and you will more than likely feel guilty for the abortion itself... so pain either way
Adoption - You will have to give up your child

here's a slightly more accurate list:

Abortion - You will feel guilty for your mother, and you will more than likely feel guilty for the abortion itself. also you will have to give up your child

Adoption - You will have to give up your child to a state approved stable couple

both options result in you giving up your child but only one results in killing a baby.

LadyJ

Commander Vimes wrote:

both options result in you giving up your child but only one results in killing a baby.

Actually,neither results in killing a baby. Killing a foetus,yeah.

Btw OP,if you do have an abortion then there is no need to feel guilty about disappointing your mother,it is not her life or her choice. And maybe you will feel guilty in general,but then again,you may not.

Sam Vimes

LadyJ wrote:

Actually,neither results in killing a baby. Killing a foetus,yeah.

if i broke into the ford plant and destroyed a car that was still on the assembly line, i'm fairly sure they'd still say "you wrecked one of our cars", even though it wasn't technically a car at that point


there are certain cases where abortion is acceptable to me:

the mother's life is in danger: yes

the foetus is severely deformed and would spent its life hooked up to tubes: yes

the shame of the neighbours and the family finding out: no

the inconvenience of having a baby: no

the bizarre idea that its better to put your baby down than to give it to a family that desperately want it: absolutely not

Strokesfan

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Exactly

LadyJ

Commander Vimes wrote:

if i broke into the ford plant and destroyed a car that was still on the assembly line, i'm fairly sure they'd still say "you wrecked one of our cars", even though it wasn't technically a car at that point


there are certain cases where abortion is acceptable to me:

the mother's life is in danger: yes

the foetus is severely deformed and would spent its life hooked up to tubes: yes

the shame of the neighbours and the family finding out: no

the inconvenience of having a baby: no

the bizarre idea that its better to put your baby down than to give it to a family that desperately want it: absolutely not

Well,I disagree and I won't argue with you because,with this debate,I'm not foolish enough to think I can change your mind.

Personally,I don't think anyone has the right to decide when abortion is "acceptable" or not. It's a personal thing and I have no problem with it whatsoever,regardless of whether it's a 15 year old,single girl,or a 30 year old married woman.

Altheus

Treads softly.... Abortion is a route that is often fraught with problems far beyond perhaps the difficulty of going back to college with a child. It can lead to depression, suicide, latent guilt, as well as some medical risk.

Likewise I guess same can be said of having the child, post-natal depression etc.

Irish men tend to have a very conservative opinion on this subject in my experience, whereas women swing both ways.

As far as the baby or not debate goes, it's not yet a baby, but let's face it there's a big difference between a glint in someone's eye and the illegal practise of abortion. Perhaps a remnant of a bygone era, but not judging from posts here.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the fertilised egg belongs to both partners, even if you are the one that is carrying it, so involve your partner. If you are in the position of physically being capable of having the baby, I think you should do it. Whatever happened contraceptive wise, sex is a responsibility as much as a pastime, for the purposes of having children.

Abortion for the purposes of quality of life (especially when it's nothing to with health or bringing a child up in a bad home) is quite selfish. Abortion for the purposes of potentially making life a little easier, for me, is enormously selfish, and would change my opinion of a human being quite strongly.

I'm glad to see you've made the effort to talk about it, and personally I hope you decide to have the child. My sister did when she was 16, and now she is college educated, happily married, and pregnant again!

I think perhaps you'll be best off going to a Rape Crisis Centre, or a Wellwoman clinic. The people there are well trained and considerate people, they will give you both sides, and not judge you for it. I'd also pop into a govt office, as a single mother, returning to education, you would be entitled to quite good benefits of the social welfare system. (Back to education, children's allowance, college grant aswell as tax-free allowances and/or dole money)

-- OT --

To everyone merely commenting on abortion, shut up, this is not a discussion on abortion, it's a discussion to perhaps help a girl considering it using your personal experience. It's OT. Say something useful or vent your policital and moral opinions elsewhere.

Though this comment:

To succeed in life,sometimes we have to make "selfish" decisions. Doesn't make us bad people. Life is not so black and white.

Spoken like a true machiavellian. I'm yet to personally find what is considered to be the general rule of "success" in life. Financially sure, selfishness is key. However to maintain a good conscience, and perhaps feel proud of oneself, I think as a general rule of thumb, selfishness for one's own gain is probably not the ideal.

iguana

Commander Vimes wrote:

here's a slightly more accurate list:

Abortion - You will feel guilty for your mother, and you will more than likely feel guilty for the abortion itself. also you will have to give up your child

Adoption - You will have to give up your child to a state approved stable couple

both options result in you giving up your child but only one results in killing a baby.

And do you think she won't feel guilty for her mother if she has the child and puts it up for adoption. Do you honestly believe that you can give your baby to someone else and without grieving and feel guilt and doubt? That every christmas and birthday and mother's day forever aren't going to fill you with doubt and regret?

I know women who have had abortions and women who have given children up for adoption and of those women the ones who have given the child up for adoption suffer more. They bring a child to term, go through labour and give birth, they often see and hold they baby, and then they give it away. That pain and loss often never, ever goes away because their child is in the world and they don't know them. Those I've known who've had abortions grieve and doubt but they get over it better.

spurious

This is not a decision anyone else can make or justify for you.
YOUR body, YOUR decision.

Darragh29

Altheus wrote:

To everyone merely commenting on abortion, shut up, this is not a discussion on abortion, it's a discussion to perhaps help a girl considering it using your personal experience. It's OT. Say something useful or vent your policital and moral opinions elsewhere.

Don't see the where "Political Opinions" come into the discussion tbh. The current subject, by virtue of what the act of abortion involves, has moral considerations. It's impossible to talk about the OP's circumstances without looking at the morality of each choice that is open to her in terms of what is right and what is wrong taking into account her current circumstances. It's interesting that some people on here say she has the right to do what she wants regardless of the ramifications. It could be argued that this attitude is completely reckless. Personally, as someone who I think has a reasonably centred moral compass, I think that her circumstances as she has presented them in her OP come nowhere near justifying an abortion. I personally don't believe that abortion is right, but I would very reluctantly (have to) respect the OP's decision to choose an abortion as an option for her, if her circumstances were significantly different, but I choose not to respect her right to make the decision to go for an abortion given that it appears to be nothing more than a career option for her.

Just because you have the "legal right" to do something, it doesn't necessarily follow that its the right thing to do...

Aoide

My first pregnancy was not planned. I was young, newly married and still in college. Life got sidetracked for a short while, then I went back to school, got a great career and have wonderful children who I can't imagine life without.
As another poster pointed out, your life does not "go on hold" once you have a baby. It changes, yes, but changes can end up being more wonderful than your original plans.
There are also loads of loving people who would love to adopt your baby if you really don't want to keep it.
I'm not going to get into an abortion debate, just pass on what I have learned from the couple of women I know that have had abortions. They have all said they later regreted it. It seems like a quick solution, but I'm afraid too many people gloss over it and fail to recognize the emotional consequences down the road.
Think it through and talk it over with your husband.

Darragh29

iguana wrote:

And do you think she won't feel guilty for her mother if she has the child and puts it up for adoption. Do you honestly believe that you can give your baby to someone else and without grieving and feel guilt and doubt? That every christmas and birthday and mother's day forever aren't going to fill you with doubt and regret?

I know women who have had abortions and women who have given children up for adoption and of those women the ones who have given the child up for adoption suffer more. They bring a child to term, go through labour and give birth, they often see and hold they baby, and then they give it away. That pain and loss often never, ever goes away because their child is in the world and they don't know them. Those I've known who've had abortions grieve and doubt but they get over it better.

Well conversely I happen to know a few people who were adopted rather than aborted and they appear to be happier that their mother made that decision rather than having an abortion. You only have to read the last page to see that...

iguana

Altheus wrote:

I think perhaps you'll be best off going to a Rape Crisis Centre, or a Wellwoman clinic. The people there are well trained and considerate people, they will give you both sides, and not judge you for it. I'd also pop into a govt office, as a single mother, returning to education, you would be entitled to quite good benefits of the social welfare system. (Back to education, children's allowance, college grant aswell as tax-free allowances and/or dole money)

I'm sorry, am I missing something? The OP is a married 26 year old unsure about whether she wants to continue with the pregnancy of a foetus concieved, presumably, by her and her husband.

OP, I am of the opinion that one of the most selfish thing anyone can do is to bring a child into the world that they don't really want. If you go through with the pregnancy you will be bringing a helpless person into the world, one who depends on you to care for it, keep it healthy, feed it right and teach it how to be the best person it can be. If you are not ready for this commitment, now or ever, then you need to sit down with your husband and discuss it with him. This is you're decision not your mothers. Do what is right for you.

iguana

Darragh29 wrote:

Well conversely I happen to know a few people who were adopted rather than aborted and they appear to be happier that their mother made that decision rather than having an abortion. You only have to read the last page to see that...

Sure, but it isn't the cluster of cells that has come on here asking for advice, it's a pregnant woman who is examining her options. I was an unplanned pregnancy and as much as I'm glad my mum had me it was still her decision, not mine.

Darragh29

iguana wrote:

Sure, but it isn't the cluster of cells that has come on here asking for advice, it's a pregnant woman who is examining her options. I was an unplanned pregnancy and as much as I'm glad my mum had me it was still her decision, not mine.

I totally agree with you, it was her decision. But just because someone isn't here to express their opinion, does that mean we just deem their best interests as irrelevant??? Say for example you took a fictious scenario of ten miners trapped 2km underground in a coal mine. We can't communicate with them and they cannot rescue themselves. If we do not start making assumptions about their needs and how to resue them, they will die. So it falls to those of us above the mine to try to best cater for their interests and rescue them. We being humans, we would do our best to keep them alive in the short term and then rescue them. We don't wait for one of them to go it alone and come up to tell us that the other 9 are fu*ked if we don't help, do we???

Same happens in a road traffic accident. If you were driving down in Kerry somewhere at night in a remote location and came across a car upside down with a driver sticking out the window bleeding badly, limbs hanging off, unconcious but still alive, what would you do??? Would you wait for the person to retain conciousness before you go over to assist them and call the emergency services??? This need to protect human life is what sets us apart from the animals, it is what defines is as humans I think...

JC 2K3

Bah, fúck guilt. Fúck "moral consequences" of something which won't affect anyone's conscience but the one who decides to commit the act. So someone decides to kill a baby(if you can call it that) that no one has any emotional attachment to, so what? Who suffers? No one(well they wouldn't if society didn't make the mother feel guilty).

Of course it's an instinctivly humane reaction to be against abortion, but we have to supersede these instincts with logic sometimes. You only get one shot at life and if you don't want a baby then you shouldn't have to have one, no matter what your situation.

JC 2K3

Darragh29 wrote:

This need to protect human life is what sets us apart from the animals, it is what defines is as humans I think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Carcharodon

I think its disgusting that people try and force their opinions on somone else and give them a morale lecture on what is right or wrong in their own opinion.
The person did not ask on the morale justification on an abortion, so why be so judgemental....
She has an issue about her mother and how the abortion would affect her, so no need for people to comment on her values and how she can still have a life with a child.
She has her reasons for abortion and these should be respected

In my opinion OP you dont have to tell mother about abortion, you can lie about it, there is always a way to get around things....miscarriage...

Blush_01

I'm pro-choice, but pro-life. I couldn't imagine ever wanting an abortion, but I've never been in the circumstance where I've felt the need to consider it as an option. However, I would find the idea of not having a child for the sake of a bit of ease an utterly selfish and irresponsible thing to do. I've always firmly believed that if you do something, you face the consequences of your actions. OP, if you didn't want a child, you should really have been more careful. And the fact that you pay more respect to your mother's opinion here than to what your husband might feel is utterly incomprehensible. You're in a relationship. You're married. That implies more than a minor level of commitment to eachother. You're not alone, and you're 26. Sure, you didn't plan to get pregnant, but how many people can say they were strategically planned? I wasn't. I'm pretty happy though that my parents decided to keep me. They were newly married, they had plans. But I became an addition to the family, not just a burden that denied them of their dreams, as did both of my siblings.

Where does your husband figure in the equation? I know it's a hard thing to do, but put yourself in his shoes. Are you going to be open and honest about it with him, or are you going to do it and not tell him, if you do go ahead with the abortion? If so - how would you feel if he did something of similar magnitude and kept it from you? I personally couldn't stay with someone who I had made a commitment to if they cut me out of one of the most important decisions in our relationship and never gave me a chance to have my voice heard. I'd feel utterly betrayed. At this moment in time you may just be talking about a cluster of cells, but that cluster has the potential to be his son or daughter. I could never take something that huge from someone and look them in the face again.

Are you more concerned with keeping up appearances than with experiencing the opportunities you've been given, or is that just a cynical and over-simplified view of your situation?

I wish you the best of luck with your decision, whichever way you choose to go. It's not an easy one. I also hope whatever you decide to do works out.

spinandscribble

i wish this was just a troll

iguana

Darragh29 wrote:

Same happens in a road traffic accident. If you were driving down in Kerry somewhere at night in a remote location and came across a car upside down with a driver sticking out the window bleeding badly, limbs hanging off, unconcious but still alive, what would you do??? Would you wait for the person to retain conciousness before you go over to assist them and call the emergency services??? This need to protect human life is what sets us apart from the animals, it is what defines is as humans I think...

Lots of animals protect the lives of others, even at the cost even at the cost of their own. That's far from uniquely human, it's opposable thumbs that set us apart.

Look, you believe the foetus is a baby, and I believe it's a cluster of cells unless the person who is carrying it chooses to see it differently. This debate is not the purpose of this thread. I shouldn't have let myself get into this debate here and refuse to any further.

SingingCherry

Look, don't listen to all of these people who think that abortion has "moral implications" or that you're being "selfish". Abortion means neither of these things, and if you are thinking about an abortion, I think it's safe to say that you are okay with the idea of abortion and feel that it's not morally irreprehensible. Good for you.

I think you need to talk this over with your husband. Really tell him how you feel. Do whatever the two of you decide and do not concern yourself with the guilt of upsetting your mother -- she will get over it. That said, you don't even have to tell her. Miscarriages happen every day, and not uncommon in the early stages of pregnancy. While I don't recommend lying to your mum, this is an option.

I don't know if this will help you at all, but 3 years ago I had an abortion and I haven't regretted it for one day or thought about it at all (besides when a post or conversation like this comes up!). I don't long for a baby or even think about a child that could have been on christmas/mothers day/other holidays. I knew I had things in my life that I wanted to do and that would hinder me if I had a child. It wasn't a sacrifice I was willing to make and I made my choice. Choose what is best for you and your husband. Good luck.

mel123

As another poster said, you can still do a lot of things if you have a child. There is often creches in colleges now.
However, you need to make the decision yourself and not let a load of strangers give you advice on what you should do. We dont know you, we dont know your circumstances etc etc.
If you do go ahead with the abortion, you are not a bad person. However, its something you will have on your conscience for the rest of your life, I doubt if a day will go by where you dont think of it, and I am speaking from experince from a very close friend of mine who went through councelling and everything for a long time. This may be something else to take into consideration.
Good luck anyway, I am sure its not an easy decision to make.

Sam Vimes

LadyJ wrote:

Well,I disagree and I won't argue with you because,with this debate,I'm not foolish enough to think I can change your mind.

Personally,I don't think anyone has the right to decide when abortion is "acceptable" or not. It's a personal thing and I have no problem with it whatsoever,regardless of whether it's a 15 year old,single girl,or a 30 year old married woman.

disagreeing with me is basically telling me i should be medical waste instead of typing this right now. apparently it was my mother's "personal decision". i'm glad for my sake and the sake of my parents (the people who raised me) that she realised her decision effected more than herself

iguana wrote:

And do you think she won't feel guilty for her mother if she has the child and puts it up for adoption. Do you honestly believe that you can give your baby to someone else and without grieving and feel guilt and doubt? That every christmas and birthday and mother's day forever aren't going to fill you with doubt and regret?

yes, the woman will feel doubt and regret. she may feel horrible afterwards. i hate to be callous but i don't really give a sh*t. feeling crap doesn't give her the right to kill her potential child.

also, i don't know how reliable this site is but apparently a woman who's had an abortion in the last six months is ten times more likely to commit suicide. so much for getting over it
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/abortion_and_suicide.asp


basically she's going to feel crap either way. personally i'd prefer to feel crap because i don't know where my baby is* rather than knowing exactly where it is because its at the local dump.

*although i'd know it was with a loving family somewhere

spurious wrote:

This is not a decision anyone else can make or justify for you.
YOUR body, YOUR decision.

how about that jehovah's witness woman today? she would be dead right now if the high court hadn't forced her to have a blood transfusion and there would be no one to look after her baby. do you think she should have been allowed to die?

on a side note, should they have killed the baby if the woman had been allowed to die because there would have been no one to look after it other than thousands of families who would be more than happy to?

Darragh29 wrote:

Well conversely I happen to know a few people who were adopted rather than aborted and they appear to be happier that their mother made that decision rather than having an abortion. You only have to read the last page to see that...

well of course they're happier. the children of the parents that made the other decision are medical waste. they are neither happy nor sad.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Bah, fúck guilt. Fúck "moral consequences" of something which won't affect anyone's conscience but the one who decides to commit the act. So someone decides to kill a baby(if you can call it that) that no one has any emotional attachment to, so what? Who suffers? No one(well they wouldn't if society didn't make the mother feel guilty).

Of course it's an instinctivly humane reaction to be against abortion, but we have to supersede these instincts with logic sometimes. You only get one shot at life and if you don't want a baby then you shouldn't have to have one, no matter what your situation.

what about the baby that had had its one shot taken away? was its shot less important than it's mothers?

and all i'm saying is the woman should bring the baby to term and then give it to a family that will love and care for it in a way she can't. hardly "ruining her one shot at life". i would never advocate that a woman should raise a child for 18 years that she doesn't want. no body seems to realise that there are options besides vacuuming it out

edit: sometimes they put some kind of salt solution into the womb to burn the babies skin off instead of vacuuming it out. babies can and have survived this and other methods of attempted abortion, sometimes disfigured, sometimes perfectly fine


what about if you're 20 and both your parents are in a car wreck. what if they need 24 hour care but you want to go out with your mates? is it ok to kill them because they're "ruining your one chance at life"?

Darragh29

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I never said your moral code and mine were the same now, did I??? If you have read the OP and think that she is doing the right thing by having an abortion in all of the circumstances, more power to you.

Faith

This thread isn't a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, or when life begins. The OP is simply asking for impartial opinions.

Yes, to have an abortion is a selfish decision but ultimately every decision we make is selfish. My two cents is, OP, if you really feel like having a child right now would ruin your life, then have the abortion. If, however, you think you might be able to make it work, then I think you should try.

Like the others have said, adoption is another option that needs to be considered.

Sam Vimes

i'd like to point out that i'm an atheist so my opinion of abortion isn't based on any kind of religious belief

Sam Vimes

Faith wrote:

Yes, to have an abortion is a selfish decision but ultimately every decision we make is selfish.

ummm... i hate to be pedantic but if i make a decision to give you 1000 euro is that selfish?

Faith

Commander Vimes wrote:

ummm... i hate to be pedantic but if i make a decision to give you 1000 euro is that selfish?

That's not the issue here.

However, to answer briefly, it would depend on why you gave me €1000.

spurious

In answer to the usual stuff that has been raised here....YES in my opinion an adult woman's life is much more valuable than that of a clump of cells and I make absolutely no apology for believing that - everytime.

Again, NO ONE has the right to tell this woman what to do - it is her body, her life, her decision.