Court Summons

Blazer

Was caught last year for no tax and insurance on my car by a garda checkpoint. Was only just back in the country hence why i had no tax which I explained to the guard. For the insurance I was waiting on my disc from Quinn Direct but was fully insured at the time. Explained all this to guard who asked me to bring in docs the following day to police station to prove it. Did so and he said that was ok and the end of it. Recently I got a summons for the above offence which means I have to attend in court. Explained again to Guard who gave me summons and he was puzzled as well as to why it still went ahead. He advised me to talk to the guard who caught me and explain my case again.
My question is this, the summons has the wrong reg on it..if the guard still lets this get to court will it be thrown out because of the incorrect reg?

Sonnenblumen

Harsh treatment and Bad luck!

Do you not normally get 14 days to present your tax/insur in a garda station of your choice? Its compulsory to carry licence.

Suppose the wrong reg is technical and could be thrown out, but its the driver that is summoned not the vehicle. Unless the charging Garda tells you otherwise, I'd turn up if I were you.

Blazer

had my license with me...will talk to guard tomorrow anyway but definitely planned on turning up

Kinetic^

Listen, bring the documents which state that you were insured & taxed atc to the garda that pulled you in. He'll probably say to you that you still have to turn up though but it will be quashed in there. Happened to me twice before :rolleyes: I've borught my stuff down on time ever since.

Mojito

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Suppose the wrong reg is technical and could be thrown out, but its the driver that is summoned not the vehicle.

Yeah that'll get through out.

seamus

If it stills ends up in court, it'll get thrown out either for the wrong reg, or when you present your insurance and tax to the judge.

oleras

Mathew Reilly wrote:

Was caught last year for no tax and insurance on my car by a garda checkpoint. Was only just back in the country hence why i had no tax which I explained to the guard. For the insurance I was waiting on my disc from Quinn Direct but was fully insured at the time. Explained all this to guard who asked me to bring in docs the following day to police station to prove it. Did so and he said that was ok and the end of it. Recently I got a summons for the above offence which means I have to attend in court. Explained again to Guard who gave me summons and he was puzzled as well as to why it still went ahead. He advised me to talk to the guard who caught me and explain my case again.
My question is this, the summons has the wrong reg on it..if the guard still lets this get to court will it be thrown out because of the incorrect reg?

what were the summons for ? no tax ?, correct, failure to display tax ?, correct, failure to display insurance ?, correct. You broke the law, take the punishment.

cormie

There's grace periods for both non display of tax and insurance. It's not all black and white.:rolleyes:

oleras

cormie wrote:

There's grace periods for both non display of tax and insurance. It's not all black and white.:rolleyes:

you 100% sure about that ? kinda hungry this time of night, a hat might go down well.....:D

dgosul

Give the guy a break oleras

Spitfire666

you cant get done for non display of something you dont have! if youy apply for insurence and dont get a disc right away you get a note from the insurers to display with your policey number on it. you get 10 days to produce but thats if the guard demands that you produce as aposed to asking if you could produce.

Our man in Havana

seamus wrote:

If it stills ends up in court, it'll get thrown out either for the wrong reg, or when you present your insurance and tax to the judge.

The most important thing is not to alert them to their mistake till he has given his evidence in court. If the Garda discovers the mistake before giving his evidence the mistake can be fixed. Stay quiet until it's your turn to speak.

Padraig Mor

cormie wrote:

There's grace periods for both non display of tax and insurance. :

No there's not.

mlink73

Padraig Mor wrote:

No there's not.

Yes there is, at least for the insurance disc you have 10 days to present them to the Gardai. I asked the Gardai about that actually, so consider this as confirmed. I dunno about the tax disc though.

leeroybrown

Padraig Mor wrote:

No there's not.

Yes and no. Unless the law has been changed there is no requirement to have the insurance disc displayed during the first 10 days after the start date of the policy. Presumably to facilitate the policy documents being sent to the driver.

cormie

Padraig Mor wrote:

No there's not.

Sheesh, I knew I'd have to end up quoting the law for making such a wild statement:rolleyes:

1984 355
S.I. No. 355 of 1984.


ROAD TRAFFIC (INSURANCE DISC) REGULATIONS, 1984.


The Minister for the Environment in exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 5 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 (No. 24 of 1961), hereby makes the following Regulations:—

<snip>

5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

Can't find the bit on the tax disc but I'm 99% sure you have until the end of the month AFTER the month of expirey to make payment.

Padraig Mor

mlink73 wrote:

, so consider this as confirmed. .

eh....no. Presenting them to a station at the request of a Garda is a separate matter. THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD FOR DISPLAYING TAX AND INSURANCE DISCS. It really is a mystery to me why people think there is - that there's not is written quite clearly in black and white in the Rules of the Road book. However, Gardai will usually let you off with presenting them at a station if you're able to explain to them why you have no disc (i.e. the car isn't parked somewhere and you're not there). Lack of enforcement does not make it any more legal though.

edit: the ROTR pdf seems to be gone so the best I can do is a quote from lireland.com:

Before being taken onto a public place a motor vehicle must be taxed and insured. A current tax disc and a current insurance disc must be displayed on the vehicle. Failure to observe either of these requirements is a serious offence.
The official ROTR book says the same thing.

cormie

Padraig Mor wrote:

eh....no. Presenting them to a station at the request of a Garda is a separate matter. THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD FOR DISPLAYING TAX AND INSURANCE DISCS. It really is a mystery to me why people think there is - that there's not is written quite clearly in black and white in the Rules of the Road book. However, Gardai will usually let you off with presenting them at a station if you're able to explain to them why you have no disc (i.e. the car isn't parked somewhere and you're not there). Lack of enforcement does not make it any more legal though.

Did you read my post above this post I'm quoting?

Padraig Mor

cormie wrote:

Did you read my post above this post I'm quoting?

Not before I posted it! Not sure whether the law has been changed but I am 100% certain that the ROTR states quite categorically that you must be taxed and insured and displaying valid discs at all times. One of the questions in the Theory Test asks whether there is a grace period for displaying discs. If you tick the '10 days' option you will lose a score.

Padraig Mor

Just checked the draft version of the new ROTR on the DOT website :
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7604-0.pdf

It uses exactly the same wording as my edit above (p.9)

cormie

The 10 days applies to only insurance. There is also a section at the start of the rules of the road that says "this book is not an interpretation of the law and should only be taken as advice" or something along them lines.

The law is quoted above, 10 days for insurance and I'm 99% sure it's a month after expirey for tax. This is still the law today. Ring any insurance company and ask if you get insured with them today, can you drive today or do you have to wait for the disc to arrive. They will say you will be able to drive as you will be insured on their system.

cormie

Padraig Mor wrote:

Just checked the draft version of the new ROTR on the DOT website :
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7604-0.pdf

It uses exactly the same wording as my edit above (p.9)

That's a very brief summary on page 9, it goes into minor detail of the situation and leaves out the grace period details. The law is quoted in my post. That is the law.


Did you look at page 2?

"The booklet is not an interpretation of the law":p

seamus

cormie wrote:

I'm 99% sure it's a month after expirey for tax.

There's no official grace period for tax. You can renew your tax disc before your old one has expired, so there's no good reason not to have a valid tax disc on your car at all times. The Gardai however take account of reality and unofficially no Garda will do you for no tax if you're only a month out.

Padraig Mor

cormie wrote:

That's a very brief summary on page 9, it goes into minor detail of the situation and leaves out the grace period details. The law is quoted in my post. That is the law.


Did you look at page 2?

"The booklet is not an interpretation of the law":p

Presuming that the staute you quoted is still in effect, it would seem that there is a grace period. Given that the ROTR states that there isn't (and, as mentioned, there are questions in the Theory Test about it) it does seem that the ROTR book is wrong. Now, while they may have covered their asses by stating that's it's not the actual law, wouldn't it make sense for the two to agree?

mlink73

Padraig Mor wrote:

Presuming that the staute you quoted is still in effect, it would seem that there is a grace period. Given that the ROTR states that there isn't (and, as mentioned, there are questions in the Theory Test about it) it does seem that the ROTR book is wrong. Now, while they may have covered their asses by stating that's it's not the actual law, wouldn't it make sense for the two to agree?

Actually I bought a new car on friday and changed my insurance. I was told that I CAN drive immediately as I am insured and it takes a few days for the disc to arrive.
So I went to my local Gardai station and checked with them. They actually CONFIRMED that as soon as I am insured I can drive and in case I get stopped before the disc arrive I will get 10 days to present the disc.

There is a simple reason for it as they can check with my policy number when the insurance became effective. So as long as I was already covered the day I was stopped, I won't get fined.

And as I said before, actually confirmed by the Gardai, am I right in assuming that they should know the law?

cormie

Padraig Mor wrote:

Presuming that the staute you quoted is still in effect, it would seem that there is a grace period. Given that the ROTR states that there isn't (and, as mentioned, there are questions in the Theory Test about it) it does seem that the ROTR book is wrong. Now, while they may have covered their asses by stating that's it's not the actual law, wouldn't it make sense for the two to agree?

As I said, that ROTR is very brief and what they are probably doing is just trying to encourage people to never be without a disc just for conveniance sake instead of saying well you're not supposed to unless a b and c apply if you know what I mean?

As for the theory test question? Again, I'd have to see the question.

seamus

cormie wrote:

As I said, that ROTR is very brief and what they are probably doing is just trying to encourage people to never be without a disc just for conveniance sake instead of saying well you're not supposed to unless a b and c apply if you know what I mean?

Indeed. The ROTR tries to teach best practice. If it told people "Well, actually you don't have to have a disc on your car for ten days after you get your insurance", it would cause a few problems, namely:

1. People who don't read it properly, or recall it incorrectly will think that they can drive without insurance for up to ten days. I hear people "quoting" the rules of the road incorrectly all the time.

2. It gives the procrastinators an excuse to procrastinate. People will wait until the last minute to sort things, so you'll have thousands of people ringing their insurance companies on the 11th day wondering where their insurance disc is, instead of making sure they have it from day one.

I think the spirit of the legislation is to protect those who are legally insured, but whose discs are delayed by post or by clerical errors (like me this year), and not to give everybody a grace period.

mlink73

cormie wrote:

As I said, that ROTR is very brief and what they are probably doing is just trying to encourage people to never be without a disc just for conveniance sake instead of saying well you're not supposed to unless a b and c apply if you know what I mean?

As for the theory test question? Again, I'd have to see the question.

I have the official test CD at home so I will check later, but as far as I recall it the question was actually relating to the tax disc. I will post it here as soon as I found it.

oleras

regardless of having insurance or not, if your disk falls off the windscreen, you can be done for non display, park it on the street without a tax or insurance disk and just wait for the ticket, either from a traffic warden or the cops !

Blazer

Bond-007 wrote:

The most important thing is not to alert them to their mistake till he has given his evidence in court. If the Garda discovers the mistake before giving his evidence the mistake can be fixed. Stay quiet until it's your turn to speak.

That's Plan B if he doesn't let me off

leeroybrown

Padraig Mor wrote:

Not before I posted it! Not sure whether the law has been changed but I am 100% certain that the ROTR states quite categorically that you must be taxed and insured and displaying valid discs at all times. One of the questions in the Theory Test asks whether there is a grace period for displaying discs. If you tick the '10 days' option you will lose a score.

The driver theory test is a measure of your knowledge of the ROTR not of the law behind. While the ROTR gives the correct information for most situations ultimately it has no legal standing and is only intended as a guide for motorists. It would be impossible for the ROTR to cover every exception in minute detail.