That canadian guy who went on the killing spree in college

faceman

Just curious, was reading about this in detail today. Is romeo and juliet being banned as a result of this tragedy just like child's play 3 was?

projectmayhem

oh wait a minute they found games in his dorm or whatever, so the anti-games brigade is coming out en force...

Ruu_Old

projectmayhem wrote:

oh wait a minute they found games in his dorm or whatever, so the anti-games brigade is coming out en force...

Don't forget the anti goth and metal music brigade.

He wrote of his love of heavy metal music and violent computer games, including the controversial Super Columbine Massacre RPG, which he listed among his favourites.

projectmayhem

great, games and heavy music. i should shoot someone after plastering my room with britney posters and buy a christina aguilera cd. maybe i can fix the world for good

MrJoeSoap

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

There is a definite trend (not that heavy metal fans = these nutcases, but that these nutcases = heavy metal fans)

Nightwish

Ooh and he dressed all in black he must be weird

MrJoeSoap

Nightwish wrote:

Ooh and he dressed all in black he must be weird

Was fairly weird, he shot 12 people.

projectmayhem

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

There is a definite trend (not that heavy metal fans = these nutcases, but that these nutcases = heavy metal fans)

what about every other shooting that happens in the world? they're not plastered on the front of the sun with "slayer fan kills orphan children" or whatever. they might like dance or pop, but it's not quite as headline-grabbing to say "dj knacker fan shoots old man in store".

fact is a shooting in school/college is going to be by a young person, and i think these days if you do a straw poll of school and college kids you'll get a high percentage of them being metal fans, because it's cool... maaannnn.

also the fact is these "people" (sub-humans, all of them) are a bit mentally unstable so hearing trent reznor (nine inch nails for those who aren't "with it") screaming into the mic might stimulate them more then britney's dance moves do. they just might take something out of the songs that i, or any normal human being, might do.

/rant

MrJoeSoap

projectmayhem wrote:

what about every other shooting that happens in the world?

Take it easy there, I'm only talking about these school/college shootings. All I said was that there is a definite trend in these social misfits with interests in heavy metal music carrying out the shootings.

mike65

Clearly no-one was reading his blog with much care and attention.

Kimveer Gill was 25 years old and was from Quebec, according to the details he put on his profile on the website.

He introduced himself by saying: "His name is Trench. You will come to know him as the Angel of Death."

The site carried numerous pictures showing the future killer dressed in a trenchcoat, brandishing a gun and a hunting knife, and in a red and white mask.

The pictures appeared to have been taken in a bedroom, which was adorned with gangster and horror film posters.

Some bore slogans expressing his anger.

One was a mocked-up gravestone with the epitaph: "Kimveer. Lived fast died young. Left a mangled corpse."

Another slogan proclaimed: "Life is like a video game, you gotta die sometime."

Whatever happened to just slamming your bedroom door and playing Iron Maiden turned up to 11?

Mike.

last_orders

these school shooters are jus plain ****ed up an the heavy metal click accept anyone as opposed to any other click so they fall into that group when everyone else tells em to go feack themselves, any rockers (as i like to call em) iv known are properly disturbed, either be it from intence bullying or death of a close loved one so i feel sorry for them but most rockers jus flirt with the idea of it an move on.

shane86

Nightwish wrote:

Ooh and he dressed all in black he must be weird

He was weird, as are most of the goths and rockers on the planet.

Black Swan

I really doubt that Goths or heavy metal fans have a higher incidence of violent shootings, when compared to the general population. In reading back on incidents that have occurred in the USA, most of them have been school shootings by emotionally disturbed teens, who, if you met them on the street, would not look much different than the other kids at their school. That was the really scarely aspect about these kids. Although often loners, on the outside they looked normal, but on the inside or behind closed doors they were out to lunch.

Oh, when it gets cooler at night in So Cal, you just might find me decked out in black, form fitting leathers and Raybans, so look out! Ha!

Dooom

shane86 wrote:

He was weird, as are most of the goths and rockers on the planet

Uh...because he wore black?

OT - maybe he just didn't like the college? Although there are easier ways to transfer...

godtabh

Every thing you experince in life has some bearing on how you act.

Listening to heavy metal doesnt make you a killer. Listening to hard house trance doenst make you a drug user.

In order for that kid to do something like that would mean that he had something wrong inside of him.

MrJoeSoap

Spike wrote:

Uh...because he wore black?

Or because he shot 12 random people... take your pick.

Fighting Irish

Ruu wrote:

Don't forget the anti goth and metal music brigade.

That nearly always seems to be the case though, you never hear of someone who likes elton john or shane ward going on a shooting spree

Ruu_Old

Yep poor old Marilyn Manson and Metallica a right bollocking over it when these things happen.

lodgepole

projectmayhem wrote:

what about every other shooting that happens in the world? they're not plastered on the front of the sun with "slayer fan kills orphan children" or whatever. they might like dance or pop, but it's not quite as headline-grabbing to say "dj knacker fan shoots old man in store".

But there's no examples of similar trends in other mass murder cases. If the majority of people shooting people in stores shared something such as dress or interests, of course it would be noted.

fact is a shooting in school/college is going to be by a young person, and i think these days if you do a straw poll of school and college kids you'll get a high percentage of them being metal fans, because it's cool... maaannnn.

Actually no you won't. Why do you think that's the case?

also the fact is these "people" (sub-humans, all of them) are a bit mentally unstable so hearing trent reznor (nine inch nails for those who aren't "with it") screaming into the mic might stimulate them more then britney's dance moves do. they just might take something out of the songs that i, or any normal human being, might do.

Are you suggesting that in between Trent Reznor and Britney Spears there is no other mentally stimulating music? I won't for a second suggest that the music or other mental stimulants in his life were to blaim for his actions, but you can't ignore the fact that in the case of American high school massacres, a particular type of person has always been involved.


Fact is, a valid point was made by MrJoeSoap...

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

There is a definite trend (not that heavy metal fans = these nutcases, but that these nutcases = heavy metal fans)

Anyone care to address it without getting upset because they think it's generalising people who listen to their favourite music?

BlitzKrieg

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

There is a definite trend (not that heavy metal fans = these nutcases, but that these nutcases = heavy metal fans)

The answer is simple.

Its because heavy music failed for them.

If the notion that the vast majority of these would be mass murderers are young males who have extreme difficulty adapting and intergrating into a social system like high school or college. Then the appeal of Heavy Metal should be obvious.

Heavy Metal has always branded itself as being outside the normal conformist (god i cant believe I used that word) social hierachy.

So now one must assume mass murder is a gradual decision and not a swtich in one's brain. The would be killer, to tackle his difficulty of *fitting in* would turn to the musical form that presents itself as the voice of these outcasts. Which is for the most part Heavy Metal.

Buuuut, after a number of years our would be killer finds that the heavy metal music is not comforting him, is not being the protective blanket, or basis for social network he had hoped for and he begins to look for a new release.

This release is to strike out at his oppressors and express himself violently.

Voila Mass Murder ala college.


Soo if Heavy Metal musicians would spend more time being uncomformist and fighting the system and creating their utopia for outcasts rather then buying mini jets and sueing music downloaders...we wouldnt have mass murderers in colleges etc.


So to simplify.

If goth or emo = 0

To be a mass murderer you need a -

To be a well adjusted member of society you need a +

then Heavy Metal is = +5

would be killer outcasts = - 6

would not be killers outcasts = - 5

Guys looking for mosh pit nonsense = +15

YeatsCounty

It wasn't 12 people that were shot, it was 20 (one fatally). He had a blog at http://www.vampirefreaks.com but it has since been taken down.

I've been reading and hearing a lot from people here that the website was to blame for allowing him to air his views or heavy metal was to blame for angering him blah blah blah. The truth is that there are a lot of angry young people here in Montreal and it's suburbs. They come from all kinds of backgrounds but they are angry for different reasons: school, society, money.....you name it. Gill was one of them. He was obviously severely mentally disturbed (one girl, a neighbour of his, on CBC news told of a time when he chased her home from school for absolutely no reason). He was fascinated with death and guns. The forum wasn't to blame, his taste in music wasn't to blame. Nothing suggests that his musical tastes had anything to do his choice.

As for guns, he brought his three legally held guns to Dawson College on the day of the shooting. He had another gun on reserve, he still had to pick it up. Canada has a gun registry which was introduced after the 1989 Ecole Polytechnique massacre in Montreal in which 14 women were shot dead by a man who hated feminists. There are calls to strengthen the registry laws following Wednesday's attack.

I live 10 minutes away from Dawson College by bus. I've been around the college many times in the last 12 months. I know the area like the back of my hand........this has really hit home for me.

juliuspret

What type of guns did he own.....shotguns or rifles and please dont tell me M16's/AR15's are as freely available in Canada as they are in the US.

challengemaster

oh yes, blame teh pc games and music... thats it..

lostexpectation

the guy wasn't simply a trench/goth... he was a sociopath... you read his profile, where he describes how he hates people, they are all liers and backstabbers and disgusting he doesn't like people, he doesn't like himself...., shoots people = soicopath.

Baraboo

Might it be a bit simplistic to say that Heavy Metal appeals to the anger already in people and in most cases helps them release tension - Head banging, turning it up to 11 etc.. It is not that the music fails them it is simply not enough of a safety valve for people whose anger goes way up above 11.

I would find it hard to imagine most of these random/school shootings are commited by kids who are balanced and have a normal amount of anger/stupidity/frustration/death wish.

Sam Vimes

Fighting Irish wrote:

That nearly always seems to be the case though, you never hear of someone who likes elton john or shane ward going on a shooting spree

sure you do, but they only mention the killers musical tastes when they're into metal. charlie manson was probably big into the beatles but it wasn't considered newsworthy

Sam Vimes

last_orders wrote:

these school shooters are jus plain ****ed up an the heavy metal click accept anyone as opposed to any other click so they fall into that group when everyone else tells em to go feack themselves, any rockers (as i like to call em) iv known are properly disturbed, either be it from intence bullying or death of a close loved one so i feel sorry for them but most rockers jus flirt with the idea of it an move on.

i know a good few rockers and they tend to be very good people. i think they're a lot more "healthy" as individuals than the people who felt the need to bully them growing up

SpAcEd OuT

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

Because people who listen to heavy metal are generally losers and outcasts and losers and outcasts are usually the people that feel the need to lash out at others

abetarrush

Haha

He was wearin a trench coat and had a mohawk!

could he not wear jeans and a t-shirt like a SANE murderer?

18AD

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Why is it these shooting spree guys almost without fail have an interest in heavy metal music?

There is a definite trend (not that heavy metal fans = these nutcases, but that these nutcases = heavy metal fans)

It's a marketing stunt for metal music. That's why other music types are never mentioned because it doesn't fit in with their atmosphere. Whereas metal can sometimes be about violence etc... So when something like this happens the music gets 10 times more hardcore!

Or the people reporting these stories really don't like metal.

Fighting Irish

Commander Vimes wrote:

sure you do, but they only mention the killers musical tastes when they're into metal. charlie manson was probably big into the beatles but it wasn't considered newsworthy

he is a little different to these people


the people i am talking about are the people who off themselves or go on shooting sprees

lodgepole

Commander Vimes wrote:

sure you do, but they only mention the killers musical tastes when they're into metal. charlie manson was probably big into the beatles but it wasn't considered newsworthy

Charles Manson was a fan of The Beatles, that's quite well documented. Regardless he was a different kettle of fish to this guy and his acts took place in a different era.

Commander Vimes wrote:

i know a good few rockers and they tend to be very good people. i think they're a lot more "healthy" as individuals than the people who felt the need to bully them growing up

Shockingly not all fans of rock music were bullied while growing up

Sam Vimes

Lodgepole wrote:

Charles Manson was a fan of The Beatles, that's quite well documented. Regardless he was a different kettle of fish to this guy and his acts took place in a different era.

[sarcasm]still, he liked the beatles so the beatles must have encouraged him to kill people[/sarcasm]

Lodgepole wrote:

Shockingly not all fans of rock music were bullied while growing up

the guy i was quoting said all the rockers he knows are disturbed. i was saying its the people who bully rockers that are disturbed. that doesn't mean all rockers were bullied

cournioni

Fighting Irish wrote:

That nearly always seems to be the case though, you never hear of someone who likes elton john or shane ward going on a shooting spree

Clearly because it is the "norm" to listen to such "musicians". Maybe there have been people who killed while listening to Elton John or Shane Ward, but they just haven't been mentioned.

Blaming heavy metal for these shootings is just some bull**** cop out to avoid the blame for not giving these people the attention that they obviously need.

I have been listening to heavy metal for most of my life and I have never been an angsty little so and so. I listen to it because *shock! horror!* I like it.

Dragan

lostexpectation wrote:

the guy wasn't simply a trench/goth... he was a sociopath... you read his profile, where he describes how he hates people, they are all liers and backstabbers and disgusting he doesn't like people, he doesn't like himself...., shoots people = soicopath.

Actually, i would beg to differ. I would not term him a sociopath at all.....at a very basic level a sociopath has trouble getting in touch with there emotions.....the normal emotional state or other people has very little effect on them ( i.e, if you saw a young girl crying in the street you would feel something....they would find it very hard if not impossible to empathise with the person ).

The morals that we, as individuals live our lives by are a very subconcious thing, and it is thought that one of the traits of a sociopath is that the subconcious moral thought processes cannot rise, or are restricted somehow, in rising to the conciousness or ego.

There is a certain emotional void to sociopaths, or so it is believed.

Now then, the person in question seemed to be very much in touch with him emotions. It's just that his one key emotion seemed to be rage....that was his drive. There is a very important step from a point of anger, to a point of rage.

As such, i would term him more of a psychopath. Still with that emtional detachment from his fellow man and society, but driven by his own key emotion.

But thats just me.

boy_wonder

18AD wrote:

It's a marketing stunt for metal music. That's why other music types are never mentioned because it doesn't fit in with their atmosphere. Whereas metal can sometimes be about violence etc... So when something like this happens the music gets 10 times more hardcore!

A marketing stunt?? So is this guy viewed as a hero within the metal world now? Is this supposed to boost Marilyn Manson's record sales? Did Marilyn Manson hire him?? Was he a marytr? Get real will ya!!

The reason his musical taste comes to the fore is that with heavy metal music there is a larger majority of the group that are ...well...lets just say weird!! I agree with Joesoap and who can disagree - its a fact. All these highschool shootings have been linked to each other through the music & metal scene.

When i was 17/18 i mixed in the whole rocker scene purely because i liked the music. I was into the cure, nirvana, pearl jam, smashing pumpkins etc and used to go to fibber magees every friday with a mate. Used to love a few drinks and listening to music i liked instead of the dance ****tttt everywhere else. Cut a long story short - over my 1yr or so in Fibbers i met some ordinary, decent people but was deffo a minority. 90% of that place was filled with death worshippers, vampire worshippers & weirdo's etc who thought the rest of society was against them. They felt the urge to rebel. It turned me off rockers and the whole scene for good

EWheelChair

People like this make me so angry, ending other peoples lives because they hate their own. I could kill someone like him with out a second thought.

Dragan

EWheelChair wrote:

People like this make me so angry, ending other peoples lives because they hate their own. I could kill someone like him with out a second thought.

Odd though, that you could kill someone because you hate THEM and think that is okay.

I reckon that is how he felt, no?

abetarrush

EWheelChair wrote:

People like this make me so angry, ending other peoples lives because they hate their own. I could kill someone like him with out a second thought.

did you not just contradict urself?????

Tar.Aldarion

/me slips on black trousers.

*Urge to kill, rising*

Dragan

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

/me slips on black trousers.

*Urge to kill, rising*

Here you go dude, just for you.

http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/Dragan/calmdowntar.jpg

Tar.Aldarion

Dragan wrote:

Here you go dude, just for you.

http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/Dragan/calmdowntar.jpg

Lmao.
I need a boards card along those lines.

lodgepole

Commander Vimes wrote:

[sarcasm]still, he liked the beatles so the beatles must have encouraged him to kill people[/sarcasm]

That isn't what was being implied by [i've forgotten which poster]. He simply wondered aloud why there was a common thread of metal gans/goths* in North American high school massacres. No implication was made that the music or lifestyle was the cause, just that it was worth noting.

* for want of a better expression

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Clearly because it is the "norm" to listen to such "musicians". Maybe there have been people who killed while listening to Elton John or Shane Ward, but they just haven't been mentioned.

Elton John is a musician. Is your opinion on this issue based on your musical tastes?