Are Fiat's still a no go?

JackKelly

Well, I'm on the lookout for something to call my first car and i was thinking (only a side-thought) of looking at a 00/01 punto as they go so cheap second hand.

Now, my mum had a brava a few years ago which gave her nothing but problems electrically and mechanically so i'd be very skeptical buying a fiat tbh.
So should I still be warey around fiats or have the improved in the 00's?
Other wise it'll probably have to be a fiesta!
[edit]or a Colt.mmm[/edit]

JHMEG

You're fortunate in that you can learn from someone else's mistakes.

fletch

My mam has had Fiats for the past 6 years without one single issue. In saying that she bought them both from new (Seicento and Panda) and does about 5,000miles a year, and gets them serviced on schedule etc...
I would go for the Colt if you can afford one though, you can be lucky or unlucky with Fiats. My sister has a '99 Punto and nearly every week there is something different wrong with it. In saying that, it has over 100,000 miles on the clock and she does 25,000+ miles a year! :eek:

techie

I've had 5 older Fiat's, 2 x Punto's, a bravo and brava and also a Marea, now my fiancee has a Stilo and never had any problems with any of them, the newer model punto is fine once its looked after and serviced regularly, the Brava you spoke about probably had the old 1.4 engine and that is a no go area.

Blue850

My sister has a 00 Punto Sporting, with 100k on it and no problems, however having worked in a Fiat dealership they have their share of problems, head gaskets, ignition coils failing causing misfires, some used to come off the transporter brand new running on 2 cylinders!! Simple things like changing a headlamp bulb can be a nightmare due to poor access. If your buying a 6 year old Punto, buy one with lots of NCT left with the intention of running it into the ground, buy a Sporting or ELX for good spec, Sporting very economical with 6 speed box.

Kashkai

Are you mad - you want to buy a FIAT? Don't you know what FIAT stands for i.e.

Fix It Again Tomorrow!!!!!!

I bought a FIAT BRAVO brand new in 1996 when it had just won European Car of the Year. I had it back to the garage 12 times in 6 months for electrical problems, door dropped on their hinges, misfiring engine and a broken seat belt anchorage. After all this, I got rid of the worst piece of junk I've ever had the misfortune of owning. I've had 13 cars and this was the only one that ever gave me any trouble. I've also heard horror stories from mates and colleagues who have had FIATS in the past. I've never met anyone who ever had a good thing to say about them.

Do you know that the sales of FIAT have slumped across Europe. Their sales figures in Ireland (which are abysmal) are boosted by the fact that they sell approximately 40% of their cars to car hire companies.

You say that the price of a 00/01 Punto is cheap - ever wondered why? Because they're crap and no one wants them. Look at the choices you have - Peugeot 206, Renault Clio, Toyota Yaris, Citreon Saxo, VW Polo etc. You'd pick up one of them for under €5k.

If you can't afford that, I'd rather walk than buy a Fiat.

Do yourself a favour and stay away from Fiats or you'll regret it.

Owen

Fix It Again Tomorrow, and if that doesn't work F*ck It AlTogether

Punto's and Seicento's are grand, they're little workhorses. The electrics are terrible quality, but with the advent of cars like the Stilo, FIAT are determined to resolve the issues they'd been having.

They're not the worst, and the 4 year guarantee is peace of mind should you buy new!

tred

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Are you mad - you want to buy a FIAT? Don't you know what FIAT stands for i.e.

Fix It Again Tomorrow!!!!!!

I bought a FIAT BRAVO brand new in 1996 when it had just won European Car of the Year. I had it back to the garage 12 times in 6 months for electrical problems, door dropped on their hinges, misfiring engine and a broken seat belt anchorage. After all this, I got rid of the worst piece of junk I've ever had the misfortune of owning. I've had 13 cars and this was the only one that ever gave me any trouble. I've also heard horror stories from mates and colleagues who have had FIATS in the past. I've never met anyone who ever had a good thing to say about them.

Do you know that the sales of FIAT have slumped across Europe. Their sales figures in Ireland (which are abysmal) are boosted by the fact that they sell approximately 40% of their cars to car hire companies.

You say that the price of a 00/01 Punto is cheap - ever wondered why? Because they're crap and no one wants them. Look at the choices you have - Peugeot 206, Renault Clio, Toyota Yaris, Citreon Saxo, VW Polo etc. You'd pick up one of them for under €5k.

If you can't afford that, I'd rather walk than buy a Fiat.

Do yourself a favour and stay away from Fiats or you'll regret it.

I believe the newer models have improved in reliability. They have a bad rep. if you got a Punto for small money, and have it in ur head that when ur fninshed wiht this, u might get nothing for it, then maybe its a financially better deal.

alias no.9

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Are you mad - you want to buy a FIAT?

For a man so quick to spring to the defence of another much maligned marque, i.e. renault, you're quick to tar and feather fiat. I'm not criticising renault, though many will, but I do know some people who've had terrible experiences with renaults, but many who've had no trouble. I'd just like to bring some balance to this conversation. There's been a lot of fiats in my family over the years and here's the low down

1982 panda (bought new) - no trouble except the when a kind lady driving a fiesta decided to pull out of a side road in front of it. It was repaired but was got rid of soon after.

1984 uno (bought 3 months old) - obviously suffered from some rust, particularly on the doors, sorted under warranty. Had covered intergalactic mileage for a 1.1 ~350k by 1992 when it was traded in. Was spotted still driving in 1994. Just the usual wear and tear items required over its life.

1990 uno (bought 2 years old) - no rust on this one 'cos it was galvanised. Similarly reliable. Didn't do the same ammount of mileage but still far more than you'd expect, ~250k when we got rid. Had at least two subsequent owners, eventually written off in a pretty bad smash after the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

1997 bravo (bought 5 years old) - the much maligned 1.4 12v covered about 45k in 2 years, the only non scheduled service item was a clutch when there was about 82k on the clock, hardly unusual

1998 punto (bought new) - the troublesome one, had a headgasket blow, wasn't fixed right and blew again about 6 weeks later, fixed properly and no further problems. Had over 130k on the clock when it was traded in

1999 bravo (bought 5 years old) - the sweet (for it's size) 1.2 16v. No trouble apart from a run in with a ditch, still going strong approaching 100k

2001 punto (bought new) - no trouble, traded in after 2 years with 45k

2003 punto (bought new) pushing on for 60k, no trouble

2004 stilo (bought new) pushing on for 40k, no trouble. A match for the mkIV golf in terms of build, fit and finish and uninspired boring drive but without constantly blowing rear bulbs. No trouble.

9 fiats in 14 years, probably close on 1 million miles between them, that's hardly a poor reliability record. It's certainly no worse than you'd expect from most other marques. Even toyotas and mercedes need fixing from time to time. All cars were bought from main dealers and maintained for the most part by main dealers except during a brief period in the 1980's where there was no local fiat dealer.

hmmm

FIAT because of their reputation have put a massive amount of effort into building reliable cars in recent years. If you can get a modern Fiat, you tend to get a lot of car for your money in comparison to rival marques. Looking into getting a Stilo myself. They depreciate very fast, so if you pick up a 2/3 year old FIAT you can get a real bargain.

Lex Luthor

Blue850 wrote:

Simple things like changing a headlamp bulb can be a nightmare due to poor access. .

you have just brought back some memories of blood & knuckles when the wife had a Punto and I was changing the bulbs...absolute nightmare...Alfa is the same. Her Punto was a 97 and had 2 coil packs replaced in 4yrs and the exhaust fell off after 40kmiles. It was a well spec'd car for its price in the day, but the build quality on them wasn't up to the Starlet at the time.

Wife bought her Punto new the same week her sister bought a Starlet and the Punto is long gone, but her sister still has the Starlet, almost 10yrs old, one owner still running perfect and not one single mechanical or electrical fault with it.

Hotwheels

I had a 99 from new and ran it for 3 years no problems, bought a new ELX in 2002 and had it two years no problems...They are as cheap as chips to run imo, and great crack to drive...
Had a new 156 in 04 and no problems, excellent machine..Have a 159 JTDm now and its excellent excellent excellent...:D

Any car can give trouble if its thrashed or not serviced properly, get a Mech who knows his stuff and get them to look at the car/s..A well minded Punto with history is what you'll be looking for, like an ELX ....:)
Good luck with your hunt....

fletch

Hotwheels wrote:

They are as cheap as chips to run imo, and great crack to drive...

Not sure about great crack to drive. The Seicento my mam had was very lively but show it a corner and thats where things started to go horribly wrong. The Panda is better but both cars feel very unstable and top heavy....my mates 8year old Ka feels a lot safer on a back road

Kashkai

alias no.9 wrote:

"For a man so quick to spring to the defence of another much maligned marque, i.e. renault, you're quick to tar and feather fiat. I'm not criticising renault, though many will, but I do know some people who've had terrible experiences with renaults, but many who've had no trouble. I'd just like to bring some balance to this conversation"

Fair play to your memory - yes I've had 7 Renaults over the years and they are the best cars I've owned, and that includes, Toyotas, VW's, Peugeots and Kia Sportage.

I was just informing the OP that in my experience, FIAT cars are crap, the dealers are crap and the residuals are crap. When I got rid of the Bravo after only six months, I lost £4,500 on what I paid for it.

When you take a look at the new cars on the roads nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find a 06 FIAT. No one wants them anymore. I'd agree that the Cinquacento, Seicento and Punto were first choices amongst many when the scrappage deal was on in the mid nineties but their popularity has long since waned as people found out how awful these cars are. My Bravo (brand new when I bought it) was the worst built car I've ever owned even compared to a 14 year old Renault 5 that I traded in against it under the scrappage scheme. How I wished I HAD kept that Renault 5 as I sat on the hard shoulder following one of the numerous breakdowns in that bloody FIAT.

Noelie

My girlfriend has a 05 Punto, and the electronics are strange to say the least. If she doesn't leave a CD in the player the radio will turn itself on at strange times. we were talking to the sales man and he said that happens to his mom's punot also.

She's currently having an issue with the Speedo, well she has been told it's the speedo, all the electrics in the car will just short out and she has to stop the car and restart it for thinks like power steering to work. apparently she has a friend who also has a 05 punto and the same thing happened to that car.

Mechanically it seems fine, but the electrics are awfull.

Trotter

I've a 98 Fiat for the past 2 years. Its had a few knocks and rattles but nothing at all major. Its the ELX 16v and goes like the clappers. I've no complaints and Im gonna keep driving it until it gives in because it doesnt owe me a cent.

fletch

Noelie wrote:

My girlfriend has a 05 Punto, and the electronics are strange to say the least. If she doesn't leave a CD in the player the radio will turn itself on at strange times. we were talking to the sales man and he said that happens to his mom's punot also.

Same thing happened my mams Panda....some mornings she would go out and the radio would be playing away....twice all the doors opened too :eek: Brought it back to the dealer who said it was some issue with the radio and sent it back to the supplier. But other than that, it has been faultless.

alias no.9

Prosperous Dave wrote:

I was just informing the OP that in my experience, FIAT cars are crap, the dealers are crap and the residuals are crap. When I got rid of the Bravo after only six months, I lost £4,500 on what I paid for it.

to be honest, when you drive any new car off the forecourt, you loose a big wad of cash. Try trading in the scenic and see how much you're offered for it.

Prosperous Dave wrote:

When you take a look at the new cars on the roads nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find a 06 FIAT.

I see lots of grande puntos and pandas, granted the stilo ain't exactly selling like hot cakes, it never did despite being a very competant car, light years ahead of the bravo/a

Prosperous Dave wrote:

No one wants them anymore. I'd agree that the Cinquacento, Seicento and Punto were first choices amongst many when the scrappage deal was on in the mid nineties but their popularity has long since waned as people found out how awful these cars are. My Bravo (brand new when I bought it) was the worst built car I've ever owned even compared to a 14 year old Renault 5 that I traded in against it under the scrappage scheme. How I wished I HAD kept that Renault 5 as I sat on the hard shoulder following one of the numerous breakdowns in that bloody FIAT.

Look through these boards and you'll find loads of instances where the exact same sentiment has been expressed with renault in place of fiat. You're living proof that that isn't exactly true, do you not see the double standards?

sullivk

My mam drives a 02 punto bought from new. The head gasket went at 40k miles and numerous holes in the exhaust.
They're so cheap because they're so crap in my opinion.
I recently bought a 94 toyota starlet from my sister and in the 5 years she has owned it there has never been a problem.

I think you'd be better off going with a toyota or a ford. They hold their value better because they're more reliable.

colm_mcm

When you're looking at cars in this price range, you can either go for a car like the Punto, with good crash rating, lots of room, and a fair whack of style, or you can get other 99/00 cars like the 106, Saxo, or Ka. there are a good few low mileage Punto's going for small money, and for the price level - you'd only be looking at 96/97 Starlets etc.

I'd take the gamble and go for a Punto. (make sure it's at least an Elegance or ELX model) and get it checked out by a mechanic,
Punto's aren't as bad as some people will have you believe, I don't think they're any worse than a 206 or Clio.

JHMEG

Does the new Punto still suffer from the "christmas tree lights".. ie where the brake lights flash instead of the indictors, indicators come on at night instead of parking lights etc? And this is just the back lights, the front lights seem ok. They seem to have been doing that since the mid 90s.

And what's with the headlights, changing colour... blue, brown etc depending on the angle you're looking at them from. Can be blinding to oncoming traffic. Have cursed them more than once meself.

Trotter

Why are the ELX punto models considered a better bet? My mechanic told me they're built in a different factory.

gibbon75

Every electrical stuff fails in italian cars is made by Bosch...

sandyg

I have owned a panda from new and couldnt find a fault with it especially for the price of it. Learnt how to drive in it. Great car for around the town. Traded it in recently for the new punto grande. Fab car. Got so much extras in it as standard. Theres four years hassle free driving with their new warranty and breakdown cover. Not many other garages were offering that when i went looking. Its great on petrol. Cant fault with it yet!!!:D At the end of the day no matter what car you have (ie fiat) you are going to loose money when trading it in with garages other than a fiat dealer. Wouldnt the roads be boring if we all drove the same car!!!! each to their own!!:D

prospect

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Fair play to your memory - yes I've had 7 Renaults over the years and they are the best cars I've owned, and that includes, Toyotas, VW's, Peugeots and Kia Sportage.

I was just informing the OP that in my experience, FIAT cars are crap, the dealers are crap and the residuals are crap. When I got rid of the Bravo after only six months, I lost £4,500 on what I paid for it.

When you take a look at the new cars on the roads nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to find a 06 FIAT. No one wants them anymore. I'd agree that the Cinquacento, Seicento and Punto were first choices amongst many when the scrappage deal was on in the mid nineties but their popularity has long since waned as people found out how awful these cars are. My Bravo (brand new when I bought it) was the worst built car I've ever owned even compared to a 14 year old Renault 5 that I traded in against it under the scrappage scheme. How I wished I HAD kept that Renault 5 as I sat on the hard shoulder following one of the numerous breakdowns in that bloody FIAT.

Prosperous Dave, I have always agreed with your sentiments regarding renault, but I have to say you are being so hypocritical now it is unbelievable.

I can't stand people who talk down any brand based on a handful of cars they have had experience of. You name ANY mass manufacture brand sold in Ireland an I can tell you of someone who has had a major problem with one of their cars in the past. But I don't come on here every time a cars is mentioned saying, i know of such and such a car that was crap, so don't buy from them.

Regarding residual values. I bought a megane in 2004 for €24K. I would be lucky now to get €12000 for that car. That is 50% of its value in two years.

Lex Luthor

I'd have to agree with Colm and take the gamble on the Punto if you can get one that has a service history and was well looked after and a good deal. Just because it has its faults, if you know what they are and are prepared to take the odd hit here & there, then it could still work out better for you. The wifes Punto was the 1.25 ELX model and that engine was a great revver. At the time, we looked at 1l Polo's, 1.3 litre Fiestas, Starlets and for the money & spec, the Punto was by far the best package. I always kept a spare coil in the boot for emergency and the exhaust issue was a bit unexpected but not the end of the world.

yellow012

Trotter wrote:

Why are the ELX punto models considered a better bet? My mechanic told me they're built in a different factory.

The ELX's usually have the 16v 80bhp engine which doesn't suffer the same headgasket problems as the Punto 60's.

Kashkai

prospect wrote:

Prosperous Dave, I have always agreed with your sentiments regarding renault, but I have to say you are being so hypocritical now it is unbelievable.

I can't stand people who talk down any brand based on a handful of cars they have had experience of. You name ANY mass manufacture brand sold in Ireland an I can tell you of someone who has had a major problem with one of their cars in the past. But I don't come on here every time a cars is mentioned saying, i know of such and such a car that was crap, so don't buy from them.

Regarding residual values. I bought a megane in 2004 for €24K. I would be lucky now to get €12000 for that car. That is 50% of its value in two years.

Prospect,

The OP's original question was "Are Fiats still a no no?"

I've only had the misfortune of owning one Fiat, so I gave my tuppence worth. However, as with a lot of questions I see on these boards, I threw the net out at tea break and asked opinions from people I work with and the general consensus was that Fiats are crap. Of the 25 car drivers in my office, not one drives a Fiat, and of those who have owned one in the past, not one had a good word to say about the Fiat they'd previously owned. That has to say something about the brand.

I take your point that each brand will have rogue cars, but in the main, the majority of cars are well built nowadays. Perhaps Fiat have had a miraculous turnaround in the quality of their cars since I and my colleagues owned one but I don't think I'd put my own hard earned cash into one just to find out. That Bravo I owned put me off them for life. It was the first brand new car I'd ever bought - up to then I'd owned cars ranging from 8 to 14 years old (pre celtic tiger days for those too young to remember). However, that Fiat gave me more bother than the previous 7 cars put together. Therefore, I don't believe that I'm being hypocritical when I slag them off.

As for residual values on cars, it pays to shop around when trading in. I brought my dear old mother around recently to trade in her 03 Clio for a new model. The difference between the lowest and highest trade in price was €1,600, i.e. the first garage we tried offered her €9,000 on her Clio and by the end of the day I'd managed to get €10,600 for her car with a set of mats, full tank of petrol and first service free.

Yes I'm a fan of Renaults as they're safe cars, comfortable, and none of the 7 I've owned has ever let me down (and I'm including the 14 year old Renault 5 I had for 2 years)

3ps

I had a FIAT and had problems (especially with the dealer). My brother in law had a Bravo and it was a wreck. My brother had a Punto and everything on it broke.

You work hard for your money and it's not worth wasting!

gstonesmx5

i have a 02 punto 35k mls and not a bother its sitting in the drive now as i have replaced it but its hard to sell them becaus ethe choice is so massive.
they are easy to complain about even if you have never owned one just like alfa, people say they are great drivers cars but suffer from elec problems. i have yet to drive an alfa and enjoy it and i a used to drive them alot in my last job.
best to go with personal experience on this one.

projectmayhem

when the punto came out it was a new era for fiat, apparently. a few years later and you don't really see them on the road as much. and remember this is the car that was on nearly every street in ireland. i'm going to assume they didn't all get snapped up and put on display, instead they're all broke or fecked in some way.

colm_mcm

yellow012 wrote:

The ELX's usually have the 16v 80bhp engine which doesn't suffer the same headgasket problems as the Punto 60's.

In Ireland the ELX had the same 60bhp 8 valve engine as the base. (it was available with a 16v in the UK) To get the 1242cc 16V you need to get a Sporting (3dr only) or a HLX (5dr only)

The reason I said to go for an ELX is that they come with essentials like central locking, electric windows, rear headrests, colour coded bumpers etc. With such choice out there it'd be foolish to go for a black-bumper base model.

Trotter

colm_mcm wrote:

In Ireland the ELX had the same 60bhp 8 valve engine as the base. (it was available with a 16v in the UK) To get the 1242cc 16V you need to get a Sporting (3dr only) or a HLX (5dr only)

The reason I said to go for an ELX is that they come with essentials like central locking, electric windows, rear headrests, colour coded bumpers etc. With such choice out there it'd be foolish to go for a black-bumper base model.

Mines an ELX 85bhp 16v.. The mechanic told me he hadnt seen many around..

Lex Luthor

wife had a 75bhp 8 valve 1.25 ELX model. She went for the ELX primarily because of the extras that were on it, albeit she picked that salmolny pinky colour...:eek:

colm_mcm

8 valve is only 60bhp not 75. (I had one, and a Sporting)

tried to order a 16v ELX in 2000, but they weren't available even as special order.

alias no.9

The small petrol engines and trim originally available on the mk I punto were

1108cc 8v 55bhp in S, SX trim and the ultra rare EL trim with a 6 speed gearbox
1242cc 8v 75bhp in elx trim

The engines and trims were revised around 1997 to

1242cc 8v 60bhp in S SX and a few 'special editions'
1242cc 16v 85bhp in 3dr sporting and 5dr ELX

The Mk II punto changed the specs slightly
The 8v S just became the 60, I don't think it had any designation
The 8v SX became the ELX
The 16v ELX became the HLX and the engine was detuned from 85 to 80 bhp but low end torque was improved
The 16v sporting was detuned similarly but kept it's name

yellow012

alias no.9 wrote:

The small petrol engines and trim originally available on the mk I punto were

1108cc 8v 55bhp in S, SX trim and the ultra rare EL trim with a 6 speed gearbox
1242cc 8v 75bhp in elx trim

The engines and trims were revised around 1997 to

1242cc 8v 60bhp in S SX and a few 'special editions'
1242cc 16v 85bhp in 3dr sporting and 5dr ELX

The Mk II punto changed the specs slightly
The 8v S just became the 60, I don't think it had any designation
The 8v SX became the ELX
The 16v ELX became the HLX and the engine was detuned from 85 to 80 bhp but low end torque was improved
The 16v sporting was detuned similarly but kept it's name

Good info.. but you forgot to add the Mk1 1.4 turbo:D

Blue850

yellow012 wrote:

Good info.. but you forgot to add the Mk1 1.4 turbo:D

and the 1.8 HGT, and the diesels....

egan007

It's simple as this

FIAT's are very easy to love.

So...they can be a handfull, A toyota is like the girl next door, a FIAT is the rock chick that you can't bring home to your mam. She's plenty of fun but she is going to F*** you up at some stage.

I bought a 96 bravo and had a few problems with it but it was so much fun to drive that i bought another. I have had the second one now for 3 years (01) and Have not had a days trouble apart form the normal servicing requirements.
Would I buy another. Yup - I would but a Fiat Coupe now.
But i think I'll go for an Alfa 147 (FIAT)
then an Alfa Spider (FIAT)
then a ferrari F430 (FIAT)

eamon234

pardon the pun, but steer well clear of the Fiat - your best option for a small car of that year would be a Skoda Fabia - it's basically a VW Polo and they are extremely reliable and economical they are also starting to rise in value

alias no.9

I did say the small petrol engines, there was indeed the 1.4GT turbo in the mkI and 1.8HGT in the mkII, 1.7diesels and none of you spotted that the original 1.6sporting (90bhp) was missing from the list.

egan007

eamon234 wrote:

pardon the pun, but steer well clear of the Fiat - your best option for a small car of that year would be a Skoda Fabia - it's basically a VW Polo and they are extremely reliable and economical they are also starting to rise in value

Refer my previous post....:)

prospect

eamon234 wrote:

it's basically a VW Polo and they are extremely reliable and economical they are also starting to rise in value

I know a guy with a fresh & very clean polo and the trade in offers he is getting from VW dealers are just insulting. So don't bank on the VWs holl there value brilliantly crap.

Agreed on the Fabia thoug. A decent little car.