martial arts clubs...

digweed

i'm interested in getting back into martial arts (after a gap of about 10 years!!!). the thing is that i used to study shotokan karate for about 6-7 years but i'm not sure if i want to go back to that, i feel like trying something different. i've seen sites for krav maga and i'm wondering if there are any clubs in the west of ireland (clare/galway area). failing that does anyone know of any good clubs in this area, aikido, ju-jitsu, basically the grappling arts???

thanks.
D.

Nothingcompares

Judo in galway if you fancy it, it's a grappling art, olympic sport, japanese in origin.

Morse

Nothingcompares wrote:

Judo in galway if you fancy it, it's a grappling art, olympic sport, japanese in origin.

Here ya go...

http://www.irishjudoassociation.ie/clubs.asp?County=Galway

Colm_OReilly

Point Blank Submissions - Sub wrestling, MMA, like.

Just opened or opening soon. Mark Leonard (who posts here) is it's daddy.

Giant_Killer

http://www.kravmagaireland.com

Krav Maga training in Dublin city centre, run by Patrick cumiskey, sound bloke and great trainer.

mark.leonard

As Colm mentioned I run a Martial Arts gym in Galway. Log on to http://www.pointblankgym.com for more information about our classes or give me a call on 087-2037926. We started classes at this new facility this week and the beginners classes are running well if you decide to jump in.

Jimkel

Hi I too study Shotokan. If you want to try something a little different I would recommend Wing Tsun also spelled Wing Chun. I don't know about any clubs in the west but It's worth looking into.

paddyc

If your looking for WT you should try any one of the 3 Muay Thai gyms in Galway...... according to some people on this forumn they are the same thing :rolleyes:


sorry couldnt help myself

Lung Ying Acdmy

The Irish Chiu Chung Lung Ying Academy based in Navan run Tai Chi and Kung Fu classes in Dublin, Meath and Louth for all age groups. Excellent classes, am attending both at moment have been for some time. Check out www.kungfu.ie I know there are other teachers from the club teaching in different locations in Ireland. Contact Sifu Nick Costello (details on website). Really worth doing. Also run meditation 1 day and 2 day sessions. Powerful stuff

-neal

Digweed, have a look at www.kravmagawest.com

Its KM classes based in the West of Ireland.

Informative web site with plenty of links to other sites.

henryb

Digweed!

i at the minute am studying Krav Maga in castlebar Co, Mayo..
I also have studied Shotokan karate but i have to say Krav Maga certainly does it for me.

In Eamonn O Shaughnesy we have a top class instructor and every class is different and very enjoyable . you can check out the website on kravmagawest.com
good luck with the search !
henryb

digweed wrote:

i'm interested in getting back into martial arts (after a gap of about 10 years!!!). the thing is that i used to study shotokan karate for about 6-7 years but i'm not sure if i want to go back to that, i feel like trying something different. i've seen sites for krav maga and i'm wondering if there are any clubs in the west of ireland (clare/galway area). failing that does anyone know of any good clubs in this area, aikido, ju-jitsu, basically the grappling arts???

thanks.
D.

digweed

yeah, i've been in contatc via email with him alright. the only problem i have with castlebar is that i'd be travelling from Ennis. still i'm willing to give it a go.

thanks again.

D.

john kavanagh

Basic Premises of Krav Maga

1. Do not get hurt.
2. Be Modest.
3. Act correctly.
4. Become Proficient so that you do not have to kill! Ie: respond with an appropriate degree of strength.

yes it is good when you don't have to kill lol

henryb

hi john.
im new to the forum, but have seen your name pop up a few times.
would i be right in saying ive read about you in "irish fighter"???
Also would you mind giving some of your views on krav maga please!

john kavanagh wrote:

yes it is good when you don't have to kill lol

john kavanagh

henryb wrote:

would i be right in saying ive read about you in "irish fighter"???
Also would you mind giving some of your views on krav maga please!

you may recognise me from such threads as 'street v sport' and 'its about how you train, not what you train'

as for my opinion on Krav Maga, well it comes down to how you train it. read posts by millionaire (gerry) who has experience of this style. he'll tell you there's places where they train it with practically zero 'resistance work' right up to places where its trained like MMA with weapons training. so, as always, it boils down to how they train.

check out my other thread MACP - a couple of minutes in the instructor talks about the 'Why' they train the way they do (training methods) over the 'What' they train. for me thats the REAL essence of self defence training

henryb

Thanks john.
will take that on board!

john kavanagh wrote:

you may recognise me from such threads as 'street v sport' and 'its about how you train, not what you train'

as for my opinion on Krav Maga, well it comes down to how you train it. read posts by millionaire (gerry) who has experience of this style. he'll tell you there's places where they train it with practically zero 'resistance work' right up to places where its trained like MMA with weapons training. so, as always, it boils down to how they train.

check out my other thread MACP - a couple of minutes in the instructor talks about the 'Why' they train the way they do (training methods) over the 'What' they train. for me thats the REAL essence of self defence training

Michael O Leary

Become proficient, so that you will not have to kill.

I am not really sure what is so funny about this. This is a basic premise of Krav Maga and is listed in a book called, "How to defend yourself against armed assault". To put it in an unedited context it then says,

"The skilled Krav Maga practitioner does not need to inflict unnecessary harm upon his (or her) opponent, and is capable of concluding the confrontation briefly and efficiently. Cultivate consideration for your fellow men, even during a dangerous encounter."

Nothing funny so far.

"On the other hand, heed the ancient expression: "If someone comes to kill you, kill him first," referring to specific situations in which you have no choice, because "it is either him or you.""It is also essential to sharpen one's ability to discern levels of severity of a possible attack. This is especially important for young people, who must be taught the values of self-control and avoiding violence, but who must also acquire the ability to defend themselves effectively."

Don't know about anyone else but this seems very responsible and should be commended.

"This approach means: first, try to avoid the confrontation, but if you are attacked, respond with an appropriate degree of strength, sufficient to neutralize the threat and remove yourself from danger."

Again I don't know where the LOL is coming from. It is easy to quote something out of context and make fun of it. It takes a special skill to put yourself in another person's shoes and see what motivates them.

Suppose I had better brace myself for the personal attacks.:rolleyes:

Michael O'Leary
www.iewto.org

john kavanagh

Michael O Leary wrote:

I am not really sure what is so funny about this.

have you been on the website this comes from? its one of the first things you read on it explaining what KM is. why i find it funny is that they speak about 'killing someone' like its so easy to do.

almost like saying "after a couple of lessons you'll be able to 'just kill someone', just snap your fingers and its done. however when you become proficient you won't have to 'kill them'". it's a fantasy. you think the average person after a KM course has to worry about killing somebody should they be forced to defend themselves against a serious physical assault?

i'm sure you remember matt thornton's speech at this seminar you attended where he spoke about the only ways a fight can end

1. someone runs away
2. its broken up

then the physical ways

1. you cause enough head trauma so the opponent can no longer move
2. you cause enough bodily trauma (break a major limb, blind them etc) so they can no longer be a threat
3. choke them

out of the 3 its number 3 thats the most humane responce. and when you become proficient at BJJ you can actually do this, not just type it. this is something that can be shown, repeatedly - you dont have to put together a fake video, cheorographed 'dance' or just take someones word - you can have it proven for yourself.

Michael O Leary wrote:

it is easy to quote out of context

its not out of context, its all that written on that site. are you assuming the average person that comes across that website and reads that will also go off and buy the book so as to get the entire meaning behind it?

on a deeper level do you really think a martial arts instructor should have to tell their students not to kill people? do you not think thats something they should know already?

Michael O Leary wrote:

Suppose I had better brace myself for the personal attacks.:rolleyes:

no need to be so melodramatic or assume the 'victim' stance.

Millionaire

john kavanagh wrote:

there's places where they train it with practically zero 'resistance work' right up to places where its trained like MMA with weapons training. so, as always, it boils down to how they train.

The guys who train it like KM, like MMA, would be well able to choke out an attacker. of course they still do alot of the more "static" type work too when learning the moves, but once your devoting time to training it properly (alive) then its good.

Here is some very basic info on KM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_maga

For example when I went to train with them, I had to show my defence from a choke, and instead of a nice no resistance situation like I experienced in ireland in KM, they picked a massive polish military brute to do it for real on me, and i found I could not use my moves as effective as I was training before. (I had to be tested upon all I new at end of the instructors course). so that showed what a load of bollox the low resistance work did for me.

Now, I was not in a position to move to Israel to continue this training! LOL!

So for unarmed work, my own "KM" is Muay Thai, with some combative strikes, which to me is MT 80% only you employ things like the fence, turn your punches into open hand strikes, and knees and elbow remain the same as MT. and add in.... my project for Q1 2007 (learning ground work).

So that for me brings it into who is essentially MMA, with some RBSD awarness, and more of a strike focus to stay on your feet for SD, as opposed to ground focus, though you must at least know the basics inside out on the ground.

So basically my training, in the quest to be better, and being sicked to the point of replusion by the "static no resistence never sparred once, learn to be a special forces killer in 24 hours KM crew", has evolved me into a quasi MMA person (without the training for the cage focus, and of course given I have minimial knowledge from greco take down to ground, which I will learn for 2007 God willing).

Just for the note, the KM I learned in Israel has a full grappling and ground syllabus, and beginners learn basic judo and wrestling from day one, as well as the strikes etc.

Also more important to note, when I told the guys in Israel of the anitcs this kravmagaireland.com crew, with the be Fight Like a Commando Special Forces in 24 hours and showed them the web site, they were practically rolling around the ground lauging with tears in their eyes, and how ridiclous and stupid it was.

If you persue the belt system in the Israeli KM Assoc, it take approx 10 years to reach black belt level, and is very difficult to reach. The knowledge and skill I gained at the instructors course would put me at between green and blue belt level. however I never graded the belts.

For me if you leave the weapons out the picture, your better off learning Muay Thai, add in some geoffthompson.com and RBSD from urbancombatives.com and get excellent at basic ground work, as a back up. you will do much better.

In fact I would almost put my money on it, if you trained hard in Muay Thai and learned to spar within 6 -9 months, you would hammer people who has been in kravmagaireland.vom for 2 or 3 years....with seconds...BANG KO! LOL!!!!

If I ever decided to get invoved again in KM ( I have kept the door open on this one), and teach it over here in Thailand, I would ensure it is taught properly.

P.S. Just re the DO NOT HAVE TO KILL....which is, well...take it what way you want, but IMO, that probably harks back to when KM was developed as system for the Israeli Army back maybe over 40 years ago, when soldiers had nothing more that a rifle and baynoet, re Israel fighitng infantry wars with arab countries. so when thet carried KM over to civilian training, they probably stuck this in, in case people got the wrond idea...maybe!!!

paxo

Ahh fair go, how am I ever going to become a you beaut unarmed combat expert if you blokes keep busting my bubble. I reckoned that if I bought the DVD and went to a week end course I 'd be sorted. I hadn't planned on stuff like sparring, resistance training, grappling, sweating etc.

Paxo

kravist

john kavanagh wrote:

have you been on the website this comes from? its one of the first things you read on it explaining what KM is. why i find it funny is that they speak about 'killing someone' like its so easy to do.

almost like saying "after a couple of lessons you'll be able to 'just kill someone',



hi guys
Having heard about this thread from henryb who trains with me i felt obliged to sign up and reply.
In john kavanagh's replies he writes "Have to kill." with the word "have" in italics. At no time did it ever appear on www.kravmagawest.com written in this manner.
I teach my students that the techniques used can indeed be very dangerous. Although they may not kill directly, they may do in an indirect manner, eg. A person falling in fornt of an oncoming car having been struck.
Proficiency in the Krav Maga sense, ensures that one be aware of surroundings as well as capable in technique. As such, we should strive to become proficient to prevent such happenings from occuring.
For someone who appears as experienced in the Martial arts world as you do, i have to admit im disappointed with your attitude on this matter John. When you assume that i was saying that after a few lessons you'd be able to kill someone, the reality is, that thats exactly what might happen accidentally or otherwise. Indeed, it may be more likely to happen if you haven't trained!
People lacking proficiency in BJJ may attempt a choke as you mention and go too far potentially causing brain damage or death! Therefore, shouldn't one always strive towards proficiency whatever the system?
I must also point out as indeed did Michael O'Leary, that i was in fact quoting form the book, mentioned in his post! Thank you Michael for your common sense response.
You have taken it out of context John, but thats your perogative! I do kinda see where you're coming from in the sense that mentioning the word "Kill" is off putting to say the least.
So, at the moment, i have removed it from the site. I am open to opinions on the matter and eagerly await your comments.

kravist

john kavanagh wrote:

have you been on the website this comes from? its one of the first things you read on it explaining what KM is. why i find it funny is that they speak about 'killing someone' like its so easy to do.

almost like saying "after a couple of lessons you'll be able to 'just kill someone',



hi guys
Having heard about this thread from henryb who trains with me i felt obliged to sign up and reply.
In john kavanagh's replies he writes "Have to kill." with the word "have" in italics. At no time did it ever appear on www.kravmagawest.com written in this manner.
I teach my students that the techniques used can indeed be very dangerous. Although they may not kill directly, they may do in an indirect manner, eg. A person falling in fornt of an oncoming car having been struck.
Proficiency in the Krav Maga sense, ensures that one be aware of surroundings as well as capable in technique. As such, we should strive to become proficient to prevent such happenings from occuring.
For someone who appears as experienced in the Martial arts world as you do, i have to admit im disappointed with your attitude on this matter John. When you assume that i was saying that after a few lessons you'd be able to kill someone, the reality is, that thats exactly what might happen accidentally or otherwise. Indeed, it may be more likely to happen if you haven't trained!
People lacking proficiency in BJJ may attempt a choke as you mention and go too far potentially causing brain damage or death! Therefore, shouldn't one always strive towards proficiency whatever the system?
I must also point out as indeed did Michael O'Leary, that i was in fact quoting form the book, mentioned in his post! Thank you Michael for your common sense response.
You have taken it out of context John, but thats your perogative!
In the sense that mentioning the word "Kill" is off putting to say the least, at the moment, i have removed it from the site. I am open to opinions on the matter and eagerly await your comments.

Millionaire

I think it might be good to get it off the site. as I said (a few times on here) when I was doing instructors course in Israel there was none of the craic about killing, commandos, special forces, learn it all in a weeked 24 hour killer stuff, like the short fat fella in dublin km teaches .... with was just KM, an israeli MA that was taught for self defence, no different than any other MA school.

kravist

Millionaire wrote:

I think it might be good to get it off the site. as I said (a few times on here) when I was doing instructors course in Israel there was none of the craic about killing, commandos, special forces, learn it all in a weeked 24 hour killer stuff, like the short fat fella in dublin km teaches .... with was just KM, an israeli MA that was taught for self defence, no different than any other MA school.

If you looked at www.kravmagawest.com there's no mention of learning it all in 24 hours! In fact you'd have seen that Krav Maga West is being run as a proper club, with training twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
The word "Kill" is mentioned in one of the basic premises of Krav Maga, which i myself did not write! Eyal Yanilow, grand master of the IKMF wrote the book and i can only assume he was quoting Imi Sde Or, founding father of Krav Maga. So, as i see it, to insult that, is not to make fun of me or my website, but more to make fun of the system.
Mind you, the more i think about it, insult away!! I'm happy doing what i'm doing and as far as i know so are my students!

john kavanagh

In john kavanagh's replies he writes "Have to kill." with the word "have" in italics. At no time did it ever appear on www.kravmagawest.com written in this manner

i was highlighting that point because i think writing

"..so you don't have to kill'

just sounds silly imo. physical altercations happen all the time (mostly on a sat night outside nightclub) and very very few end in death. most killings (shootings etc) are gang land related.

When you assume that i was saying that after a few lessons you'd be able to kill someone, the reality is, that thats exactly what might happen accidentally or otherwise. Indeed, it may be more likely to happen if you haven't trained!

it really is not that likely. i've yet to read story 'KM student kills attacker'. how many millions have done KM courses and not a death yet. it really is very very hard to kill another person.

People lacking proficiency in BJJ may attempt a choke as you mention and go too far potentially causing brain damage or death! Therefore, shouldn't one always strive towards proficiency whatever the system?

yes they should

You have taken it out of context John, but thats your perogative!

well i can only answer this the same way i did micheal

"its not out of context, its all that written on that site. are you assuming the average person that comes across that website and reads that will also go off and buy the book so as to get the entire meaning behind it?

on a deeper level do you really think a martial arts instructor should have to tell their students not to kill people? do you not think thats something they should know already?"

In the sense that mentioning the word "Kill" is off putting to say the least, at the moment, i have removed it from the site.

well that was my only point. anytime i see something like 'kill' in the opening lines of a website front page alarm bells go off for me. just sounds a little strange for lack of a better word. it was in no means a comment on your training, i've never seen it so have no idea what you do.

oh and welcome to the forum, always nice to have a new poster

bella1

Jk I Run A Martial Arts Club In Dublin We Train To Kill.ive Run Out Of Students(all Dead)would You Have Any Spare?

Michael O Leary

kravist wrote:

So, at the moment, i have removed it from the site. I am open to opinions on the matter and eagerly await your comments.

Hi Kravist,

I don't think you need to alter your website just because of comments on this forum. One thing that I have learned in martial arts as in life is that no matter what you do, you will always have people critisize you. If its not the quotes by the founder of Krav Maga then it will be the fact that you practise self-defence and if not that then something else.

To paraphrase Jean-Luc Picard, "we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We might as well be damned for what we believe in".

Every organisation has its own culture and common values. Establish what you believe in, use your website to reflect this and don't be affected by what other posters on this forum think. (Including me )

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.iewto.org

Millionaire

kravist wrote:

If you looked at www.kravmagawest.com there's no mention of learning it all in 24 hours! In fact you'd have seen that Krav Maga West is being run as a proper club, with training twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
The word "Kill" is mentioned in one of the basic premises of Krav Maga, which i myself did not write! Eyal Yanilow, grand master of the IKMF wrote the book and i can only assume he was quoting Imi Sde Or, founding father of Krav Maga. So, as i see it, to insult that, is not to make fun of me or my website, but more to make fun of the system.
Mind you, the more i think about it, insult away!! I'm happy doing what i'm doing and as far as i know so are my students!

Hello Eammon:

we trained together quite a few times! yes I noticed your running like a proper club with regular training , and thats great!!!... thats the way it should be done!

I did not say YOU ran" be Rambo in 24 hours KM courses"... I said the other fella we used to train a bad hodge podge version of KM under does that.

KM started off as a military system with a focus on defence against weapons just as assault rifle, pistol and knife, which would be what a light infantry soldier fighting in israeli arab wars might come across in close battle back when the system was started. in fact most photo of IMI show him defending against Weapons. and not doing unarmed stuff.

If you all note this...the very first book written on KM my Eyal and Imi, addressed Defences against Armed attack.... there is very little mention in the book of unarmed defences. So maybe as this was aimed at soldiers, this is where all the "Kill" stuff came in. And to learn KILL is fine in training if your a soldier, as that is your job. Thats what are own Irish soldiers and Gardai ERU are trained to do...shoot a gun to injure, or even kill if the need arises.

As I always said KM is a good system if trained properly, and includes sparring and contact.

I like as I call it "proper' KM.... I dislike KM that just focus on technique with a willing partner, with constant pad bashnig, without one gloving up and giving it a go for real, and seeing what its like to get a bang in the mouth and to give one back.

I probably will start to teach KM in Thailand here later in 2007. put it will not be the sissy version.


KM is good for the regular punter who wants to learn basic SD and who does not have the fortitude for the harder contact systems.
sometime it is not great fun getting a full blast push kick in the gut at 8am in the morning, like happened me today, but thats the training path I am dedicated to, and it comes with the job.

However I will still be training 5 or 6 days Muay Thai as my main stay, even if I do go back to teaching KM.

As I said beofore, Krav Maga got off to a bad start in Ireland, due to one individual marketing it as this Special Forces Kill, BS Hype. which is very unfair to real KM people who train hard and regular.

As I said...go to train KM in Israel, and there is not a word about all the Special Forces, Kill, SWAT team stuff. Sure they train Military and Law Enforce Techniques...and indeed my instructors where current or ex special forces, but there was not a word about it, and it was not used as a marketing ploy to sell seminar tickets.

kravist

hey Gerry
How's life? I was wondering how long it would take for you to cop on to who i was! Hope Thailand is going well!
Just a quick point regarding training.. I believe it's important that people get a good basis in one particular system, whatever that system be. Learn the mechanics and logic. It's something they will always have and be able to fall back on at any time. Thereafter the intensity can increase ie: sparring etc.
I wont get into the whole KMIreland debate! Im just not in the mood!.lol BUT..you gotta admire the marketing, i know i'm jealous!!
By the way, fair play to your dedication, training at 8am etc 6 days a week!perhaps your fit NOW?..lol

Millionaire

Fit Eamonn! Not a chance... I am still huffing and puffing... but God willing I ll still be huffing and puffin away at MA when I am 80!

Thailand is going great. Great training, and highly complments KM work.

I saw some great KM in Israel and also trained with people from France, who had years KM, all the techniques to sharp...when you let them do them. look a million times better than me, but when it some to sparring, in seconds they were moaning and whinging...thats what I mean by sissy KM. Poland got great KM.... I trained with them....brilliant standard. They do it right.

Yes...it all boils down to basics. and do the basics few millions times, and then a few million more.

Avi frm IKMF is doing Seminar in India in Apr 2007 and I probably will go, as I need a refresher.

henryb

bella1 wrote:

Jk I Run A Martial Arts Club In Dublin We Train To Kill.ive Run Out Of Students(all Dead)would You Have Any Spare?

thats the city boys for ya. no staying power.
You could always set up a club down in
the west mate.............tougher breed of men!!!!