Is Chivalry Dead ?

Mexicola

One for the lads I guess... how many of you make the effort to open doors, buy flowers etc for the ladies these days. Or is it a case of 'girl power - I'll open the door myself' kind of thing. I still try to make the effort but sometimes I find that its almost like women expect it to happen. For example, a number of times, I've opened a door for a girl and they brush past without giving you some sort of thanks! You are left standing there holding a door thinking 'the wagon...'

Note: This is not a woman-bashing thread.

Sangre

I certainly hope its dead, its sexism pure and simple.
Of course, non-gender related manners are another matter, I'd hold the door open for anyone.

Darragh29

Mexicola wrote:

One for the lads I guess... how many of you make the effort to open doors, buy flowers etc for the ladies these days. Or is it a case of 'girl power - I'll open the door myself' kind of thing. I still try to make the effort but sometimes I find that its almost like women expect it to happen. For example, a number of times, I've opened a door for a girl and they brush past without giving you some sort of thanks! You are left standing there holding a door thinking 'the wagon...'

Note: This is not a woman-bashing thread.

See where you are coming from here! I always make a point of holding a door open for someone (whether they are male or female), but the vast majority of the time, you don't even get a small smile or a thank you and I think women are worse for it than men. I think its a general manners thing more than anything to do with chiverly...

Setun

Sangre wrote:

I certainly hope its dead, its sexism pure and simple.
Of course, non-gender related manners are another matter, I'd hold the door open for anyone.

Buying flowers for a girlfriend is sexism? Even if they actually enjoy flowers?

Yes, like the above, I'd just hold a door open for anyone who doesn't look like they're going to try to kill me.

LadyJ

Mexicola wrote:

For example, a number of times, I've opened a door for a girl and they brush past without giving you some sort of thanks! You are left standing there holding a door thinking 'the wagon...'

Well,as Sangre said,I'd hold the door open for anyone. It's just manners. However,while it would be nice if people said thanks more often,maybe some people don't feel like they have to because you're just doing what you should be doing anyway.

I mean,for example,when a person I don't know too well says hello to me on the street,I don't thank them,I just say hello back. So when you hold a door for someone,they just walk through it....Get me?

Smellyirishman

Sangre wrote:

I certainly hope its dead, its sexism pure and simple.

Perhaps you mis-understand it's teachings then, because chivalry is about taking care of m'lady, showing her respect etc... It's not about you doing things because you think she is inferior.

Sangre

Daddio wrote:

Buying flowers for a girlfriend is sexism? Even if they actually enjoy flowers?

Yes, like the above, I'd just hold a door open for anyone who doesn't look like they're going to try to kill me.

Well I'd buy it for anyone person I was going out with because its a nice thing to do. Has nothing to do with them being a girl.

I'm talking about the chivalry of doing everything for a woman, never letting them pay, throwing your coat on a puddle, doing all the chasing, seeing them as fragile little beings etc.,

Sangre

Smellyirishman wrote:

Perhaps you mis-understand it's teachings then, because chivalry is about taking care of m'lady, showing her respect etc... It's not about you doing things because you think she is inferior.

Yeah, they all treated women equally back in the Middle-Ages.

Flukey

Mexicola wrote:

One for the lads I guess... how many of you make the effort to open doors, buy flowers etc for the ladies these days. Or is it a case of 'girl power - I'll open the door myself' kind of thing. I still try to make the effort but sometimes I find that its almost like women expect it to happen. For example, a number of times, I've opened a door for a girl and they brush past without giving you some sort of thanks! You are left standing there holding a door thinking 'the wagon...'

Note: This is not a woman-bashing thread.

I'd usually hold the door for someone if they are on their way in or out as I am, whatever their gender. There is that girl power point too, in that they want to be independent and will tell us they can do things for themselves, but still expect us to do some things for them. You don't let the door close in their face obviously, but as I said, if someone is coming in or out as you are doing, the normal thing to do is to hold the door for them.

Dave!

I'd hold the door open for anyone, they don't have to have a pair of tits (although it helps!)

Sangre

Was trying to think of chivalry example but I ignore...

If there are some people sitting down and a girl comes along, I won't offer mine to her if she is able-bodied. Usually some girl will remark 'what has happen to chivalry?'. I always reply 'welcome to the world of equal rights'.

I then proceed to stretch on the chair/couch and make myself as comfortable as possible.

arseagon

Mexicola wrote:

One for the lads I guess... how many of you make the effort to open doors, buy flowers etc for the ladies these days. Or is it a case of 'girl power - I'll open the door myself' kind of thing. I still try to make the effort but sometimes I find that its almost like women expect it to happen. For example, a number of times, I've opened a door for a girl and they brush past without giving you some sort of thanks! You are left standing there holding a door thinking 'the wagon...'

Note: This is not a woman-bashing thread.

I would generally hold the door for anyone coming up to it behind me. It's just the polite thing to do IMHO. But yeah I've experienced ingratitude from both men and women that makes you just want to *accidentally* let the door swing shut as they're half way through it.

Donegal Lass

i dont think its completely dead- went out for a 'date' of sorts with a guy recently and, even though he portrays himself as a lads' lad (but not a complete dickhead), he was very polite and sweet! This 'sweetness' ranged from simple things like paying for everything to opening doors and pouring my drinks for me. I have to say its definately not something im used to and dont know how long it'l last but I think its quite nice in the beginning. If it went on, im certainly not comfortable with the idea of a lad paying for everything or doing everything for me, but i wouldnt consider it at all sexist if he did.I think that some girls get too hyped up on the term 'girl power' and should chill out a little and enjoy the fact that, even though its rare, some lads still have manners!:)

Setun

Sangre wrote:

Well I'd buy it for anyone person I was going out with because its a nice thing to do. Has nothing to do with them being a girl.

I'm talking about the chivalry of doing everything for a woman, never letting them pay, throwing your coat on a puddle, doing all the chasing, seeing them as fragile little beings etc.,

Ah yes. Well I'm not throwing my coat in any puddles. I only got it in Guiney's last week ffs.

Is the "bloke pays" "tradition" is still around btw?

punky

I think it's very sad that some people think chivalry towards a woman is sexist. It's not like that at all and, let's be honest, men and women are different. Why shouldn't a man have certain polite ways of interacting with ladies that he doesn't have with other men.

It's probably because of my upbringing but I usually act in certain ways when in the company of women, whether they be friends or whatever. For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

Anyone else with me or am I a relic of the past?

arseagon

Daddio wrote:

Ah yes. Well I'm not throwing my coat in any puddles. I only got it in Guiney's last week ffs.

Is the "bloke pays" "tradition" is still around btw?

God I hope not! Women paying their share in rounds ftw.

Smellyirishman

punky wrote:

I think it's very sad that some people think chivalry towards a woman is sexist. It's not like that at all and, let's be honest, men and women are different. Why shouldn't a man have certain polite ways of interacting with ladies that he doesn't have with other men.

It's probably because of my upbringing but I usually act in certain ways when in the company of women, whether they be friends or whatever. For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

Anyone else with me or am I a relic of the past?

With you on all points, even the footpath one.

Sangre wrote:

If there are some people sitting down and a girl comes along, I won't offer mine to her if she is able-bodied. Usually some girl will remark 'what has happen to chivalry?'. I always reply 'welcome to the world of equal rights'.

I then proceed to stretch on the chair/couch and make myself as comfortable as possible

If I was in a packed pub and a girl and a guy came back from the bar I would give up my seat to the girl. If it was just the guy, I might offer after a while to give him a break. If we both arrived back at the same time, I would offer it to him but any "ah, no thanks" and I would plonk on down.

Mexicola

punky wrote:

....It's probably because of my upbringing but I usually act in certain ways when in the company of women, whether they be friends or whatever. For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

Anyone else with me or am I a relic of the past?

Thats exactly what I am talking about... looking after the woman, but in a way that you would do it without thinking. I guess that kind of thing might be more noticeable in people with a protective nature.

Da Bounca

There aren't many ladies left worth being chivalrous to.
We can always try though.
Sometimes I hear women say chivalry is dead. This may be true, but only because women have killed it.
There isn't any need for knights anymore.

monkey tennis

punky wrote:

I usually act in certain ways when in the company of women, whether they be friends or whatever. For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

This is an example of sexism. One of the worst kinds, in fact, as you don't even think it's sexism. You 'allow the lady the safety of the inside of the path' as you think of her as inferior or weak, needing extra protection. If you would do this for a girl but not for one of your male friends, you are a sexist.

Darragh29

Da Bounca wrote:

There aren't many ladies left worth being chivalrous to.
We can always try though.
Sometimes I hear women say chivalry is dead. This may be true, but only because women have killed it.
There isn't any need for knights anymore.

Call me old fashioned for saying this, but I think you can tell a lot about how a man was brought up by how he treats a woman, especially in public. When you see a guy giving up a seat to a woman (not a pregnant or elderly woman as we'd all do this), or something like you're going through a door and a woman might be coming out through the same door that you're going in through and you step back and let her pass first, small things like this say a lot about how you were brought up I think...

Donegal Lass

Da Bounca wrote:

There aren't many ladies left worth being chivalrous to.
We can always try though.
Sometimes I hear women say chivalry is dead. This may be true, but only because women have killed it.
There isn't any need for knights anymore.

i dont think women are looking for knights tbh!! Not many want to be 'protected' as such- chivalry is more about being curtious and respectful rather than providing a protective barrier from the 'big bad world' :rolleyes:

LadyJ

punky wrote:

For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

I always carry my bag over my left shoulder (my bag side) so the guy always has to walk on my right side as I find it more comfortable and it's better for hand holding purposes etc. So never try that with me unless the road is to the right of us!

Ruu_Old

DaveMcG wrote:

I'd hold the door open for anyone, they don't have to have a pair of tits (although it helps!)

Ah I find it funnier with the springloaded door, open it and then bang in the face of the other party, causes all sorts of laughter* for everyone.





by laughter I mean, you getting a beating.

monkey tennis

Darragh29 wrote:

I think you can tell a lot about how a man was brought up by how he treats a woman, especially in public. When you see a guy giving up a seat to a woman (not a pregnant or elderly woman as we'd all do this), or something like you're going through a door and a woman might be coming out through the same door that you're going in through and you step back and let her pass first, small things like this say a lot about how you were brought up I think...

How would you feel if another man gave up his seat for you, stepped back to let you pass first, etc - just you (and women), not other men? Would you feel comfortable about that? Or would you feel condescended upon?

bonkey

punky wrote:

I think it's very sad that some people think chivalry towards a woman is sexist.

Chivalry towards a woman is sexist.

Why shouldn't a man have certain polite ways of interacting with ladies that he doesn't have with other men.

Because it involves implictly saying that you are making a distinction purely because of gender.

Donegal Lass

bonkey wrote:

Chivalry towards a woman is sexist.


Because it involves implictly saying that you are making a distinction purely because of gender.

well would you treat a man and a woman the same if you were in bed with them?? surely thats a distinction based purely on gender?:rolleyes:

Darragh29

monkey tennis wrote:

How would you feel if another man gave up his seat for you, stepped back to let you pass first, etc - just you (and women), not other men? Would you feel comfortable about that? Or would you feel condescended upon?

Well I wouldn't feel contrasended upon in any event. I can't really answer your question because it doesn't fit into the social framework that I accept and agree with, which is that there is nothing wrong with being a bit courteous towards the opposite sex. But me as a person in general, if I was walking through a door and another guy was coming through the same door in the opposite direction, I'd generally step back and let him pass, as the alternative would be to barge through the door which is not me.

ferdi

Donegal Lass wrote:

This 'sweetness' ranged from simple things like paying for everything to opening doors and pouring my drinks for me.

nothing to do with sweetness dear, he was trying to get in yer pants.

Lust4Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkey tennis
How would you feel if another man gave up his seat for you, stepped back to let you pass first, etc - just you (and women), not other men? Would you feel comfortable about that? Or would you feel condescended upon?

I think Chivalry is quite sexy!
A man who cares enough to make that effort would only cause women to make more of an effort to please them as well, don't you agree?

No condescention here. Just because I can change a tire or the oil in my car doesn't mean I don't enjoy being a girly- girl as well.

Darragh29

monkey tennis wrote:

This is an example of sexism. One of the worst kinds, in fact, as you don't even think it's sexism. You 'allow the lady the safety of the inside of the path' as you think of her as inferior or weak, needing extra protection. If you would do this for a girl but not for one of your male friends, you are a sexist.

I don't agree that it is sexist. It could be something as considerate as simply recognising that if you're out with a girl for a night, she may be wearing high heels or something and is more likely to trip or fall on that basis if she's half walking on the grass and half on the path, than a guy with flat shoes! There is usually a practical reason for these things I think as well as some some of usually minor ideological reason that most people tend to get caught up with. How many times has a girl handed you a jam jar or a bottle of lucozade and asked you to open it for her and how many times has a male friend asked you to do the same thing??? How can this happen if the world works like you have described above???

Sangre

Darragh, everytime you have had one of your examples called sexist you have clarified it and tried to back away from it, saying its not to to do with gender, when it most certainly. By defition chivalry is to do with protecting the 'fairer sex'.

You hold the door open for men and women? What has this got to do with chivalry then?

You let women in heels walk off the grass? Surely you'd do it for a guy in crutches aswell, no? Why do you only make this distinction based on sex? Sure women are more likely to have heels but that doesn't means manners should extend exclusively to them.

Why can't you be mannerly and politely to those regardless of their supposed weakness.
As a rule I won't hit a women, in the same regard I won't punch a man in a wheelchair? Why? Because they're generally at a large physical disadvantage (which you can tell by looking at them), not because she is a she. (Although I never punch people full stop)

Girls, if a guy is being really, really nice to you and being real 'chivalarous', he is trying to get into your pants, he is only doing to it to you because you are a woman and he is courting you.
Want to see who are the genuinely nice guys? Look to see how they interact with everyone else, especially your waiter and not just how they act to you and you're feminine ways.

Tar.Aldarion

What Sangre said, short and sweet.

Donegal Lass

ferdi wrote:

nothing to do with sweetness dear, he was trying to get in yer pants.

clearly a true romantic!!:rolleyes:

Agree totally with L4L

youcancallmeal

Girl Power killed Chivalry imo. It all just politcal corectness gone mad, I'm not sure what to do anymore?

ferdi

Donegal Lass wrote:

clearly a true romantic!!:rolleyes:

sorry but its the truth.
wimmin seem to like extremes (warning: wild generalisation imminent) on the one hand you have the Chivalrous Gent who holds doors, pulls out chairs, pays for dinner, flowers etc etc...and on the other hand you have the fun and irreverent Bad Boy who treats you like sh1t and will forget you in a heartbeat....both seem to hold about an equal amount of appeal to women.

Dilly1

punky wrote:

I think it's very sad that some people think chivalry towards a woman is sexist. It's not like that at all and, let's be honest, men and women are different. Why shouldn't a man have certain polite ways of interacting with ladies that he doesn't have with other men.

It's probably because of my upbringing but I usually act in certain ways when in the company of women, whether they be friends or whatever. For example, I think it's polite for the man to walk on outside of the footpath, allowing the lady the safety of the inside of the path.

Anyone else with me or am I a relic of the past?

Awe so sweet, If only Women were polite and nice in return, of course
in the real world they are far from it. Now before you jump down my throat
most girls agree with me. One Australian girl who stayed in Ireland for two years said, she thought Irish girls were the rudest she had ever met on her travels. She thought Irish guys were the nicest (but She said they need to wash more haha ) and they get a raw deal by being stuck rude Irish girls.
(thank god for the foreign invasion )

I think there are far too many rude people anyway (both men and women), they are starting to take over and outnumber nice people, we need some sort of a cull. :cool:

jellie

Ive been seeing a guy recently, & ive noticed he makes the effort to do things like walking on the outside of the path, letting me go through doors first, etc.

Maybe he IS "trying to get into my pants", but so what? He's being nice to me, & making an effort with me. I think its sweet, & i like it.

Donegal Lass

ferdi wrote:

sorry but its the truth.
wimmin seem to like extremes (warning: wild generalisation imminent) on the one hand you have the Chivalrous Gent who holds doors, pulls out chairs, pays for dinner, flowers etc etc...and on the other hand you have the fun and irreverent Bad Boy who treats you like sh1t and will forget you in a heartbeat....both seem to hold about an equal amount of appeal to women.

the thread was asking was chivalry dead, not 'what type of men do women want'?? yes or no? i was only stating that i didnt think that it was completely dead and i stand by that?! im not going to change my mind about it because you have stated that he only wants in my pants! And I agree with Sar84-at least hes making an effort to get in my pants as opposed to the usual, to quote Tommy Teirnan, "givus a go of yer knockers!"
im sure at some stage that you will learn that it isnt all about the physical aspect of things when it comes to women.

punky

monkey tennis wrote:

This is an example of sexism. One of the worst kinds, in fact, as you don't even think it's sexism. You 'allow the lady the safety of the inside of the path' as you think of her as inferior or weak, needing extra protection. If you would do this for a girl but not for one of your male friends, you are a sexist.

Well, I guess by your definition I am a sexist. But I think you're sorely mistaken. If, for example, I believed that women should stay at home and wash dishes all day, I would be a sexist. If I believed that men should get better jobs or higher pay, I would be a sexist. But I don't believe in any of these things.

The truth is that men and women ARE DIFFERENT. Look at them. They're different. We have different ways of interacting with the opposite sex. This goes for both women and men.

For the life of me I cannot see what is so wrong with a man acting like a man (i.e. being masculine) and making small gestures of protection or politeness towards someone of the fairer sex (yes, women are fairer, i.e. more beautiful than men). I think some feminists have taken this way too far and expect men and women and threat each other exactly the same. This is not natural and it's not realistic. Yes, women should have equal opportunities, equal rights etc. but let men act like men and women act like women.
What's so wrong with that?

Zulu

monkey tennis wrote:

This is an example of sexism. One of the worst kinds, in fact, as you don't even think it's sexism. You 'allow the lady the safety of the inside of the path' as you think of her as inferior or weak, needing extra protection. If you would do this for a girl but not for one of your male friends, you are a sexist.

Well it's actually so that a passing carrage may splash muck on you as opposed to m'lady, seen as you'd tend to be wearing boots and a cloak. ...but seen as your on a rant there away with you :rolleyes:

ferdi

Donegal Lass wrote:

the thread was asking was chivalry dead, not 'what type of men do women want'?? yes or no? i was only stating that i didnt think that it was completely dead and i stand by that?! im not going to change my mind about it because you have stated that he only wants in my pants! And I agree with Sar84-at least hes making an effort to get in my pants as opposed to the usual, to quote Tommy Teirnan, "givus a go of yer knockers!"
im sure at some stage that you will learn that it isnt all about the physical aspect of things when it comes to women.

ah relax, i'm not trying to get in your pants.

Black Swan

Ever see the film, "Scent of a Woman?" The lead character tells his young understudy that you should open the car door for a woman, but the real test to see if she cares about you (and worth chasing) is if she then opens your door from the inside.

daiixi

Sangre wrote:

If there are some people sitting down and a girl comes along, I won't offer mine to her if she is able-bodied. Usually some girl will remark 'what has happen to chivalry?'. I always reply 'welcome to the world of equal rights'.

Can we get some sort of badge which distinguishes those who want "equal rights" to those who want romance and doors to be opened for us and not to have to work? Seriously, bring back the days of women luncheoning and playing tennis with the girls and I'd be happy!! Women still aren't equal to men no matter what anyone says.

BTW I'll open the door for anyone who is close enough to not have to run and I don't expect a man to give up his seat for me or buy me flowers but hey, got to admit it's nice!

JC 2K3

As long as it isn't consumeristic or extremely sacrificial then I don't see why I wouldn't be nice to a girl - although I'd have to like them. It'd be more on the basis of my attraction to a specific girl rather than a general being nice to females thing. I'd expect the same back from them though tbh.

shane86

Darragh29 wrote:

See where you are coming from here! I always make a point of holding a door open for someone (whether they are male or female), but the vast majority of the time, you don't even get a small smile or a thank you and I think women are worse for it than men. I think its a general manners thing more than anything to do with chiverly...

I hold doors open generally too, but tbh i find a vast majority of people say thanks.

Only people i show no courtesy towards are rockers. If you are fat, have purple hair and black lipstick ill deliberately skip the bus queue on you.

As for the whole men bending over backwards for birds thing, its suprising how greatful women are and how they show appreciation when you buy them a crap plastic rose off a Romanian when you are both fcuked

But generally, whilsit ill hold open a door for anyone, kind "nice guy" favours are purely for the pretty girls, for the sole reason of getting in their pants, of course In all honesty though, i think ever man is more likely to, say, do a favour in work for a cute yoke than a fat one.

I remember one day sitting on the bench at a bus stop, this one of about 58 came over and litreally parked her arse infront of me until i offered the seat. ffs if she was an old woman i wouldve gladly, but late 50s? I shouldve pulled her back up the fukin chancer.

Sangre

punky wrote:

Well, I guess by your definition I am a sexist. But I think you're sorely mistaken. If, for example, I believed that women should stay at home and wash dishes all day, I would be a sexist. If I believed that men should get better jobs or higher pay, I would be a sexist. But I don't believe in any of these things.

The truth is that men and women ARE DIFFERENT. Look at them. They're different. We have different ways of interacting with the opposite sex. This goes for both women and men.

For the life of me I cannot see what is so wrong with a man acting like a man (i.e. being masculine) and making small gestures of protection or politeness towards someone of the fairer sex (yes, women are fairer, i.e. more beautiful than men). I think some feminists have taken this way too far and expect men and women and threat each other exactly the same. This is not natural and it's not realistic. Yes, women should have equal opportunities, equal rights etc. but let men act like men and women act like women.
What's so wrong with that?

Sure, you think whats the problem? Why are women getting annoyed about chivalary. Its men getting the raw!
Well the problem is the foundation chivalry lies on, while they may get the benefit in the immediate present e.g. they have their dinner paid for or chair pulled out, they ultimately suffer in the long run. Why? Because chivalry is based on the fundamental assumption that women need this protection and safety net in the real world, what kind of man would you be if a woman had to walk on the outside of the path? Sure, she only does 10 times a day.

So you're raised as a chivalarous man, always offering chairs to women, you've been bred with an innate feeling that women need this done. How can you possibly see women on an equal footing if you think they need to be protected. In a job review will you promote the man or the woman? Surely the woman is too emotional, weak and sensitive for this real world business malarky?

Sure, there are inherent biological differences between and women resulting in differing physical attributes and personalities (also socially engineered) but to see one or the other as 'weaker/fairier' is where the problem lies.

Can't we should be polite for the sake of manners and not because we feel women can't stand on their feet for more than 20 minutes.

monkey tennis

punky wrote:

Well, I guess by your definition I am a sexist.

It's not my definition - pick up a dictionary:

sexism
n.

1. Discrimination based on gender
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

punky wrote:

But I think you're sorely mistaken. If, for example, I believed that women should stay at home and wash dishes all day, I would be a sexist. If I believed that men should get better jobs or higher pay, I would be a sexist. But I don't believe in any of these things.

Holy cow :rolleyes: So you're not a full-blown sexist, you're just a casual sexist. What progress! You still can't accept the fact that you're discriminating based on gender. People like you remind me of those people who used to give black kids all the awards in school competitions to 'prove' that they weren't racist.

You clearly have no idea how irritating it is to have someone look down on you because of something completely irrelevant such as your gender (or race?).

Zulu wrote:

but seen as your on a rant there away with you

Jaysus, yeah, must be my time of the month, wha :rolleyes:

Donegal Lass wrote:

well would you treat a man and a woman the same if you were in bed with them?? surely thats a distinction based purely on gender?:rolleyes:

Is that really the best argument you could come up with?? No wonder your bloke has to run around doing everything for you.

Kintarō Hattori

I buy flowers, bring her shopping, cook dinner, go meet her from work, always give up my seat. So for me it's certainly not dead. Though if I'm out and about I won't give up my seat for a young lady unless she's either pregnant, not so young or obviously needs it. I used too, but after getting an earful from a young lady on the bus into town one day many years back about being a sexist pig I knocked that on the head.

il gatto

Sexism is a recent term of abuse. Chivalry has been around much longer. Equal rights means just that. It means you get what you deserve. You're not withholding anything from a woman by being nice to her. The cry of sexism is just as much a result of social engineering as chivalry. It's nothing to do with equal rights. It's about not discriminating between genders. Discrimination is not a bad word by the way. It just means making a choice, not being a sexist, racist or bigot. If we don't discriminate between genders, does that mean you'd punch a girl for the same things you might punch a guy for? Does it mean you'd become bi-sexual? Does it mean you wouldn't intervene if you saw a guy beating a woman? It's easy to say you'd never hit anyone, or sexual preference is a stupid argument, or that you'd intervene where anyone is being beaten. But these are situations where the majority of men discrimate between the sexes. It's a fact that women are different from men and conditioning ourselves to ignore that fact is unnatural and fighting that in an attempt to "not be sexist" is a pointless exercise in political correctness. Political correctness is just a matter of finding a position that seems good on paper and is easy to argue.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

monkey tennis wrote:

This is an example of sexism. One of the worst kinds, in fact, as you don't even think it's sexism. You 'allow the lady the safety of the inside of the path' as you think of her as inferior or weak, needing extra protection. If you would do this for a girl but not for one of your male friends, you are a sexist.

its not men that is killing chivalry, its attitudes like this.