Citroen C5 - should I buy it?

unkel

With the expanding unkel family, we need to upgrade our second car, a '99 Fiesta, to something bigger: a hatchback with a decent boot. Was thinking a Skoda Octavia would fit the bill perfectly, but I've been offered a good deal from a dealer on a '02 Citroen C5 1.8 petrol (€5.5k plus the Fiesta - this is at the high end of our budget). The car will do very limited mileage, probably no more than 3-5k miles per year. We'll probably keep the car for at least 3 years

So should I buy it? What other cars should I consider? Any comments welcome

Owen

The C5 is the ugliest car on the road, bar none. It looks like it was designed by Stevie Wonder with help from Ray Charles. The dash is the most boring I've ever seen on a car, an expanse of black, cheap, nasty plastic, and wasted space seems to be the defacto rule in place when the 'designers' (And I hesitate to use that word) penned this abomination.

The only time you'll get a decent trade in for it will be against another Citroen, and you'll find it easier to get rid of AIDS. That, and people will laugh at you when you're at traffic lights!

Anan1

ned78 wrote:

The C5 is the ugliest car on the road, bar none. It looks like it was designed by Stevie Wonder with help from Ray Charles. The dash is the most boring I've ever seen on a car, an expanse of black, cheap, nasty plastic, and wasted space seems to be the defacto rule in place when the 'designers' (And I hesitate to use that word) penned this abomination.

The only time you'll get a decent trade in for it will be against another Citroen, and you'll find it easier to get rid of AIDS. That, and people will laugh at you when you're at traffic lights!

OP - Are you buying to impress other road users, or do you just need a bigger car? The C5 did get 5 stars in the NCAP, which would be a big draw for me.

Owen

It's not about impressing anyone. The depreciation on a C5 is mindblowing. I'm in the trade, and we simply won't value a C5 if it comes in the door, because we know our trade buyers won't want it.

unkel

ned78 wrote:

The only time you'll get a decent trade in for it will be against another Citroen, and you'll find it easier to get rid of AIDS

LOL

I should have been a bit more specific. I don't care about residuals, the car will probably be driven into the ground. I don't care about fuel consumption as that is mostly irrelevant when one does very low mileage. I don't care what it looks like. I don't care if it is not a great driver's car.

I do care about space, reliability, safety and total cost of ownership

@anan1, the '01 model has 4 stars, which was normal for new cars around that time. Only the Laguna II had 5 stars back then. The facelift '04 model indeed had 5 stars, but even with Citroen depreciation, an '04 is well outside budget

gyppo

ned78 wrote:

The depreciation on a C5 is mindblowing.

All the more reason to look at this car as an attractive used buy financially.
By the time the OP has it 3 years, its going to be a 7 year old car, and it, along with other cars that fall into the class D segment, will be worthless anyway.

@OP - have a look at an 01/02 Mondeo 1.8lx, a good roomy car that should be within the money you are talking about.

maidhc

I'll second the mondeo!

No one likes the 1.8 LX model. (except people who dont care about the spec, the slightly less powerful engine, and want a cheap car!)

Moanin

C5 maybe ugly and unreliable but it is very comfortable and if you intend driving it into the ground then maybe it's the ome foe you?

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

I do care about space, reliability, safety and total cost of ownership

If you really care about reliability and TCO, you wouldn't even be considering a Citroen.

ned78 wrote:

The C5 is the ugliest car on the road

That accolade surely goes to the Peugeot 607. Referred to as the most economical car on the road because it's too embarrassing to actually drive! C5 takes 2nd place.

Gatster

If you really care about reliability and TCO, you wouldn't even be considering a Citroen.

I never had any problems on Citroens, and somes of the one I've had/drove lived a hard life. Not sure about the C5's reliability but it sounds like it suits your needs Unkel...

Anan1

JHMEG wrote:

That accolade surely goes to the Peugeot 607. Referred to as the most economical car on the road because it's too embarrassing to actually drive! C5 takes 2nd place.

It's amazing how much opinions can differ on how a car looks. I think the 607 is one of the best-looking big cars out there.

JHMEG

"Build quality and customer care apparently remain major problems for the French PSA group, with Citroens and Peugeots scoring abysmally in just about every category but handling."

C5 comes #133 out of 156 cars in the survey. It's one of the highest scoring Citroens!

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/1.html

Other surveys more or less show the same.

EDIT: Skoda Octavia scores a very respectable #5

Gatster

To quote the irrepressible Homer:

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that."

It's the dreaded Alfa debate again !!!

Fey!

Personally, I'd prefer the Octavia, especially if you intend to drive it into the ground.

With the low mileage you intend, why don't you look at a high mileage car; if you're only going to do about 15k in it over 3 years, then it could balance out the average annual mileage and make it more saleable down the road.

ie: 2002 with 84k = 21k per annum average in 2006
2002 with 99k = 14.14k per annum average in 2009

Also, look at the number of Octavias on taxi ranks - shows a good degree of reliability, IMHO.

Anan1

To give you an idea of price, I just bought a 99 Octavia 1.6 GLXi with 50,000 miles and FSH for €4,500.

alias no.9

ned78 wrote:

It's not about impressing anyone. The depreciation on a C5 is mindblowing. I'm in the trade, and we simply won't value a C5 if it comes in the door, because we know our trade buyers won't want it.

The depreciation is the thing that makes the C5 attractive in this case, someone else has suffered the pain. €5.5k and a 1999 fiesta (~€2k trade) to put you behind the wheel of a 4 year old car that probably cost the bones of €30k new depending on the spec. What would you recommend for that budget?

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote:

It's amazing how much opinions can differ on how a car looks. I think the 607 is one of the best-looking big cars out there.

I'd have to second that. Also really like the c5.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote:

"Build quality and customer care apparently remain major problems for the French PSA group, with Citroens and Peugeots scoring abysmally in just about every category but handling."

C5 comes #133 out of 156 cars in the survey. It's one of the highest scoring Citroens!

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/1.html

Other surveys more or less show the same.

EDIT: Skoda Octavia scores a very respectable #5

I'm goign to bet a lot of problems are niggly ones liek electrics, but it all goes down as "fault", lumped in with say a toyota that may have had total engine failure, but sure an electric window regulator failing on the citroen is still down as 1 fault, as is a total failure on the toyota.

Is there nearly as much gadgetry in the octavia? The fact that skoda are 2nd and VW 21st would suggest that the extras you get in the vw's are what the issues are with. Or that certain drivers are willing to put up with faults. ie 50 toyota drivers having a fault will probably all put it down to bad luck, whereas 50 merc driver shaving faults will probably be up in arms and beating down the dealers doors.

maidhc

Stekelly wrote:

Is there nearly as much gadgetry in the octavia? The fact that skoda are 2nd and VW 21st would suggest that the extras you get in the vw's are what the issues are with.

Won't go down the road of arguing whether or not Citroens are or are not reliable, but Skodas generally have better kit than the equivalent VW.

(Incidentally our Postman blew the engine in his Berlingo, but after three or four years of his driving i'm not all that surprised!)

colm_mcm

n fairness, an 02 C5 isn't really worth that much, and you won't get anything nearly as modern for the money. Do it, but know why they're cheap.

Do-more

Unkel - get yourself out to Merlin Car Auctions in Ashbourne, here are a selection of auction results from the past month...

’01 C5 1.8 41,000 mls Silver €3,700
’01 C5 2.0 HDI 86,000 mls Silver €4,150
’01 C5 2.0 HDI 80,500 mls Silver €4,350
’02 Mondeo 1.8i LX 5 Door 82,000 mls Silver €5,500
’03 Primera 1.6i Visia 37,000 mls Silver €6,600
’03 Laguna 1.9D Sport 5 Door 105,000 mls Silver €5,800
’01 Octavia 1.4 Ambiente 88,000 mls Red €4,400
’01 Passat 1.6 68,500 mls Silver €6,500

if your not confident to buy at auction yourself, hire a mechanic to come with you, even if your giving him a genorous €200 you will still save yourself a packet. I've bought all my cars at auction for the last 10 years.;)

Wilsons on the Naas rd. probably have similar.

Hope you like Silver!

JHMEG

Maybe the depreciation on the C5 is so brutal cos they're sh!t?

cancan

C5 is a grand car - buyers are such badge snobs these days that if it's not german they won't look at it - not the cars fault!

The c5 is probably one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven - the ride is top notch, and the car eats long journeys.

I'd say go for it, and never mind the snobs here who have never driven one, and think because they watch top gear, they can review any car they want through some sort of osmosis from the tv.......

bazz26

How about a few outsiders like the Opel Omega estate? They are picked up very cheap these days.

Or one of these:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=415475

It even looks like a BMW Unkel from some angels.

Panda Moanium

I tested a new one of these recently and in my opinion the C5 is a much underrated car. Very very comfortable, and the version I had (1.6 HDi Exclusive) was very well specced. Ultimate handling might not be the very best in class but there is not much wrong with it. In fact I'd rate it at least on a par with the handling of a Peugeot 407 which tends to get pretty favourable reviews.

Don't know if the 1.6 HDi diesel was available going back 3 or 4 years but this is a great engine - able to push along the C5 along nicely and well frugal into the bargain - I got 5.0 l/100lm over 800 km of motorway, city and country driving.

I'd certainly choose one over an equivalent 407 or Laguna...or Octavia...

JHMEG

Skoda = badge snobbery?

The C5 is a grand car if you ignore reliability and build quality.

colm_mcm

JHMEG wrote:

Skoda = badge snobbery?

The C5 is a grand car if you ignore reliability and build quality.

and resale value and desirability and that voice in the back of your head tellling you that it's gonna be trouble!

cancan

JHMEG wrote:

The C5 is a grand car if you ignore reliability and build quality.

Have you ever owned a citroen or did top gear tell you that?
And I wouldn't credit that top gear survey with much - How come Skoda is 2nd and Volkswagen is 21st even though they use the same parts?

The JD Power survey says as much about owners perception of their car than than what actually happens it and reliability makes up a small fraction of the overall score.

Cosmo K

C5 is not a bad car, not very sporty, but very spacious, a good family car. And Colm, talking about reliability, what car would you suggest? 01 Avensis vvti, thats burning more oil then petrol, or how about a new model Avensis? You know the one with the faulty power steering, and the rubbish headlights that simply melt?

JHMEG

Going on my opinion of them, it's not likely I would ever own a Citroen (unless I won one).

I've seen first hand the way Citroen don't paint the underside of the bonnet (to save money), and I've broken off bits off the interior trim on many Citroens just to confirm to myself that it's flimsy.

Cosmo K

JHMEG wrote:

and I've broken off bits off the interior trim on many Citroens just to confirm to myself that it's flimsy.

Well, thats certainly an interesting approach :eek:

unkel

Thanks folks for all your comments

Apparently the better half does not like the looks of stationwagons or most Japanese cars. We must have something in common so

colm_mcm wrote:

that voice in the back of your head tellling you that it's gonna be trouble!

Yeah I hear that voice alright. It doesn't seem like that good a deal altogether, so it ain't gonna be a C5

See my new thread...

Dilbert75

Anan1 wrote:

To give you an idea of price, I just bought a 99 Octavia 1.6 GLXi with 50,000 miles and FSH for €4,500.

And in May I got a 00 Octavia 1.6 GLXi with 68k miles and FSH for €4250 (no NCT but passed first time + 1 dent in front sill which doesn't bother me).

Also have a Citroen Picasso and, despite the conventional "wisdom" peddled on many forums, its been faultless and reliable. Spares for servicing have been cheap - oil and filter cheaper from Citroen dealer than from motor factors - and readily available. Picasso is the most comfortable car I've owned, or driven, bar none. I've also been watching the C5 prices from Merlin and have to wonder why people allow them to lose so much value. But, as with the Skoda, other people's badge snobbery is my good value.