Truth in Scripture

MeditationMom

Post here statements of your favorite scriptures that you think all other faiths may agree with.
Either follow your gut, your own meditation experience or quote your chosen statement and add the different versions of the same thought from the various other scriptures.
Or, if a statement strikes you as so true that you think it would have to be somewhere in other scripture ask for confirmation here from people of other faiths than yours.

Sapien

Can the works of, say, Friedrich Nietzsche or John Stuart Mill count as scripture?

Dades

MeditationMom wrote:

Post here statements of your favorite scriptures that you think all other faiths may agree with.

Love thy neighbour - unless he's different to you.

MeditationMom

by Sapien- Can the works of, say, Friedrich Nietzsche or John Stuart Mill count as scripture?

I don't know whether philosophy can be equal to scripture. Philosophy is, in general, very logical.
Scripture is more poetry, hinting at the unknown, mystical, wise but not neccessarily smart or logical, therefore so often misunderstood. We don't recognize the same statement a Buddhist may make with the one a Christian may make. That's why I thought this could be interesting. Also, Nietzsche and John Stuart Mill, would you say their thoughts resulted in a faith that people have?

Still, I am curious and we can try. Most threads end up with something a bit different from the original intention. Which statements did you have in mind?
It would be intersting to find out if any philosopher has ever, with pure logic, ended up at the same place that a statement in scripture would represent.

by Atheist- Love thy neighbour - unless he's different to you.

In other words, if he hates you , hate him back? Or just be indifferent? What other faiths teach that? Remember Atheism is a unique "faith" without scripture. Would other Atheists agree with this statement?

If you like, let's start a whole new thread on your statement's wisdom, in comparrison to "Love thy neighbour, as thyself". I think your attitude is smarter, but the "christian" one is wiser. See, now I would like a Muslim to give me the equivalent qoute from the Qu'ran, a Jew from the Torah, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Hindu etc from theirs. They all represent the same spiritual "exercise or practise" but there are differences in how they are worded, which I find interesting. I think this particular one we would find across the board, so it is a good one to start with.

Asiaprod

MeditationMom wrote:

I think this particular one we would find across the board, so it is a good one to start with.

Hum, 'Love' in Buddhism refers to something quite different from the ordinary term of love which is usually about attachment, more or less successful relationships and sex; all of which are rarely without self-interest. Instead, in Buddhism it refers to de-tachment and the unselfish interest in others' welfare.
Two phrases spring to mind
1. "If there is love, there is hope that one may have real families, real brotherhood, real equanimity, real peace. If the love within your mind is lost and you see other beings as enemies, then no matter how much knowledge or education or material comfort you have, only suffering and confusion will ensue"?His Holiness the Dalai Lama
2. "Love your enemy." the Buddha.
This is probably a universal saying, but in Buddhism it does not mean love the person you hate; You can't do that. It means Love those who hate you.

Dades

MeditationMom wrote:

In other words, if he hates you , hate him back? Or just be indifferent? What other faiths teach that? Remember Atheism is a unique "faith" without scripture. Would other Atheists agree with this statement?

Most would agree it's not a faith. It's simply the definition of someone who actively rejects faith in gods/religions. But yes, I guess atheists live by conscience, rather than scripture.

What I meant by my statement was that many faiths share the idea that would should love and respect our brother/neighbour etc, but that all contain somewhere within their writings caveats to the rule regarding certain groups. Be they those of a different, gender, religious (or non-religious) persuasion, sexual orientation etc.

Asiaprod wrote:

"Love your enemy." the Buddha. This is probably a universal saying, but in Buddhism it does not mean love the person you hate; You can't do that. It means Love those who hate you.

That's a tough call. I could possibly respect an enemy, but love them? That said I like my next door neighbour, but I'm not sure I love him.

mountainyman

The Atheist wrote:

That's a tough call. I could possibly respect an enemy, but love them? That said I like my next door neighbour, but I'm not sure I love him.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


This is not my favourite verse of the bible I just like the complete OTT ness of it I think it psalm 50.

Break the teeth in their mouths o LORD
Pull out the fangs of the young lions
O LORD let them be cut into small pieces
Let them pass from the world as when young mothers miscarry
O LORD let them never see the sun
The righteous man shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked
The righteous man shall say truly the LORD judges all the earth

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

That's a tough call. I could possibly respect an enemy, but love them? That said I like my next door neighbour, but I'm not sure I love him.

Yep, thats the challenge, I could not say I have done it yet:(

maitri

Here are some more:

From Islam:

41:34
Good deeds and evil deeds can never be equal.
Repel evil with good,
then you will see
that even one with whom you had enmity
will become as though he were an intimate friend.


17:36
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.



39:18
They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.


5:87
"O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not deprive yourselves of the good things of life which God has made lawful to you, but do not transgress the bounds of what is right"...


2:256
There shall be no compulsion in religion:



From Christianity:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I give over my body in order to boast,1 but do not have love, I receive no benefit. Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
(1. Corinthians 13:1-13)


I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.
(Matt, 25:40)

When you welcome even a child because of me, you welcome me.
(Luke 9:48)



From Buddhism:

Putting down all barriers, let your mind be full of love. Let it pervade all the quarters of the world, so that the whole wide world, above, below and around, is pervaded with love. Let it be sublime and beyond measure so that it abounds everywhere.
- Digha Nikaya


Of all the ways you can think of, none has a sixteenth part of the value of loving-kindness. Loving-kindness is a freedom of the heart which takes in all the ways. It is luminous, shining, blazing forth.
Just as the stars have not a sixteenth part of the moon’s brilliance, which absorbs them all in its shining light, so loving-kindness absorbs all the other ways with its lustrous splendour.
Just as when the rainy season ends and the sun rises up into the clear and cloudless sky, banishing all the dark in its radiant light, and just as at the end of a black night the morning star shines out in glory, so none of the ways you can use to further your spiritual progress has a sixteenth part of the value of loving-kindness. For it absorbs them all, its luminosity shining forth.
- Itivuttaka Sutta

This itself is the whole of the journey, opening your heart to that which is lovely. Because of their feeling for the lovely, beings who are afraid of birth and death, aging and decaying, are freed from their fear. This is the way you must train yourself: I will become a friend and an intimate of the lovely. To do this I must closely observe and embrace all states of mind that are good.
- Samyutta Nikaya


“Believe nothing.
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it,
Even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.”
- The Dhammapada


“So all religious teachers do not teach the same goal or the same discipline, nor do they aspire to the same thing.
But if you find truth in any religion or philosophy, then accept that truth without prejudice.”
- Digha Nikaya


“Never think that I should set out a ”system of teachings” to help people understand the way. Never cherish such a thought. What I proclaim is the truth as I have discovered it and ”a system of teaching” has no meaning because the truth can’t be cut up into pieces and arranged in a system.”
- The Diamond Sutra



From Taoism:

The tao (way) that can be described
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken
is not the eternal Name.

Yechidah

From Gnosticism:

"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

- Gospel of Thomas: 70

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

mountainyman

HOLY SONNETS.

XIV.


Batter my heart, three-person'd God ; for you
As yet but knock ; breathe, shine, and seek to mend ;
That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force, to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town, to another due,
Labour to admit you, but O, to no end.
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captived, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be loved fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy ;
Divorce me, untie, or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

robindch

Omar Khayyam:

Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.

Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust Descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer and--sans End!

And much as Wine has play'd the Infidel,
And robb'd me of my Robe of Honour--well,
I often wonder what the Vintners buy
One half so precious as the Goods they sell.

Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse--and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness--
And Wilderness is Paradise enow.

ISAW

The Bible is very like the poor: we have it always with us but we know very little about it. -Samuel Butler

Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upwards. Job 5:7

Hell has three gates : Lust anger and greed - Bhagavadgita

maitri

The Atheist wrote:

That's a tough call. I could possibly respect an enemy, but love them?

Speaking of enemies, from the Kegon sutra:

If you want to get rid of your enemy, the true way is to realize that your enemy is delusion.