When boardsters clash

Bandana boy

So i am playing a really well known and respected boardster
boardster is especially well known for good reads and aggresive play (if you read this say nothing for a while)

so game is 2-4 and i am ss at 187 boardster well covers
I am on BB with KK
UTG rockish dude makes it 17 boardster calls i make it 65 to go
Rock folds boardster calls
pot 157
I have 118 behind
Flop
As 2c jc
I check boardster leads for 100
So fold or call all in ?

Comments on how played so far welcome

staringelf

i'd fold.

you should have pushed the flop if you wanted to go all the way. unless you have a good read the villain is capable of bluffing this without an A i'd fold this all day. if you can't lay down KK when an A hits when you're not pot commited (and you're not) you're prime fillet.

i'm guessing you folded and he showed KJ or something?

cardshark202

staringelf wrote:

i'd fold.

you should have pushed the flop if you wanted to go all the way. unless you have a good read the villain is capable of bluffing this without an A i'd fold this all day. if you can't lay down KK when an A hits when you're not pot commited (and you're not) you're prime fillet.

i'm guessing you folded and he showed KJ or something?

If he shows 'KJ or something' he's pretty terrible.

Ste05

Did he know who you were?? What was his image of you like. I presume he can safely put you on AA or KK??

It looks like he has a flush draw here IMO, probably hopes you have KK as opposed to AA and therefore increases his chances of winning the pot here and now and even if you have AA he has outs.

I'd be suprised if he has an A here. 22 is unlikely and JJ is just unlucky, but I'd say he'd let you bluff your KK on the turn if he had it so I'd call.

Who was it though??

P.S. Pedantics, but, to lead is to bet when first to act, this is just a standard bet.

Ste05

cardshark202 wrote:

If he shows 'KJ or something' he's absolutely terrible.

FYP

staringelf

cardshark202 wrote:

If he shows 'KJ or something' he's pretty terrible.

not if he knew OP didn't have an A. then its simply just a good read. OP's check either looked

1. really weak and scared of the A
2. really strong where pretty much the only hand he'd check here given the board is AA

Bandana boy

Ste05 wrote:

Did he know who you were??

What was his image of you like

Yup knows who i am we have played before but not much maybe 250 hands
Prob puts me down as passive fish calling station

probably knows i am not reraising oop with air though not sure what he thinks my range is

cardshark202

staringelf wrote:

not if he knew OP didn't have an A. then its simply just a good read. OP's check either looked

1. really weak and scared of the A
2. really strong where pretty much the only hand he'd check here given the board is AA

Think again about the preflop action

staringelf

cardshark202 wrote:

Think again about the preflop action

ok, maybe KJ was a bad example of a hand. it doesn't really matter, i'm guessing the OP was bluffed out of it and villain didn't just boringly have AK or something. the correct play is still to fold imo

QQ, TT take your pick, they're all valid hands he may have called with pre flop

Shortstack

Looking at stacks now on said table I would say you moved all in and were good.

ArmaniJeanss

Bandana boy wrote:

So i am playing a really well known and respected boardster

Amaru or G-Knome ???

NickyOD

If you think you're ahead, pushing is pretty bad. I would fold here since the only hand I can beat is QQ which would appear to be unlikely.

Hitman Actual

Strange hand. 'Villains' implied odds preflop are poor (3-1 or so), so surely he has to have some sort of a hand. NickyOD 's analysis seems fairly spot on, but still... maybe we'll lose a lot of respect for this boardster when you reveal all!

Imposter

Sounds like Hector to me, in which case i push.

Hectorjelly

Imposter wrote:

Sounds like Hector to me, in which case i push.

im quite insulted by that! The only hands im flat calling 1/4 of someones stack preflop are AA and KK, maybe QQ, unless im on tilt

edit, it wasnt me!

Imposter

sorry I should have used a smiley! I'll use it now

gerry87

He cant really have you on suited cards here, has to be a pair. And if he has an A, the only real pair he's afraid of here is AA. Otherwise he should know his AK or JJ is probably good, so why is he betting 100 into a ~130 pot? Would he not want KK to come for the ride with him?

This bet seems more like representing an A . I'd say call.

Ste05

I'm looking forward to hearing what the Villain had here, I've a feeling whoever it is won't appreciate this hand being highlighted, because I can't think of any hands that could be played like this. It's very oddly played by him indeed and in fact I think my reasoning in my previous post is wrong the more I think about the PF action. God knows what he has...

ntlbell

Gholi...enlighten us...

Hectorjelly

here are my predictions

if it was fuzzbox he had AAA
Gholi QQ
Roundtower 22
Ste AK
cardshark JTs
robinlacey 27o
de vore A5o
shortstack kk

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

here are my predictions

if it was fuzzbox he had AAA
Gholi QQ
Roundtower 22
Ste AK
cardshark JTs
robinlacey 27o
de vore A5o
shortstack kk

I'm most insulted by this. At least give me K9s or something. Plus Bandana boy said villian a well respected boardster, ruling out most of the above.

EDIT: It wasn't me and there are no hands I would possibly play like this because I'm not an idiot.

Ste05

Hectorjelly wrote:

here are my predictions
Ste AK

That hurts HJ... :eek: :eek: at least give me something like a madly played 78s

I think the only hand I might possibly play like this PF would be AA. [EDIT: obviously referring to the Re-raise call] But Post Flop I'd probably check behind and put them in on the turn.

P.S. I can confirm it wasn't me...

Shortstack

It certainly wasn't me. If I am in that pot then it gets in preflop and I am either 4:1 ahead or the same behind.

ianmc38

I'm leaning towards Gholimoli who held a bag o shíte

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

here are my predictions

if it was fuzzbox he had AAA
Gholi QQ
Roundtower 22
Ste AK
cardshark JTs
robinlacey 27o
de vore A5o
shortstack kk

Thats pretty funny ... what about you?

PS - I voted for call.

DeVore

A5s at least!!

Still, when the money is going in, I'd have been ahead

Not me, dunno who... I think I'd fold.

DeV.

Gholimoli

as some have guessed the villain in question is I.
the hand was played horribly by me but i think the call was even worse.
now i am on semi-tilt and the first person who open raied was not rock at all .
infact he was quit active .
he opens for a raise and im next to act with 99 so i call.
then hero reraises and having played with hero before i know his range is wide here.
hie likes making moves(not unlike my self) and so i decided to call his raise.
then flop comes what it did and he checks.
now from my point of view theres is 120 or 130 in the pot and my only way on taking this pot is by bluffing at it .also from my point of view hero either has AA here or does not have the A and infact hates the A cuz thats the only way the check would make sense.o i move in.
hero calls instantly and i think it was a very bad call.
i call a raise and then a reraise and flop is A J x and i move in ,honestly what does hero think my range is?
this was the type of call that was bad and turned out ok and was justified by "oh i know villain ,he makes moves " but was really i cant let KK go on A high flop when the action strongly suggests im beat.
anyway thats just my openion.

Ste05

Gholimoli wrote:

this was the type of call that was bad and turned out ok and was justified by "oh i know villain ,he makes moves " but was really i cant let KK go on A high flop when the action strongly suggests im beat.
anyway thats just my openion.

Gholi, you played this hand 100 times worse then the OP, although you did admit you were on tilt. IMO the action didn't strongly suggest he was beaten. Also I think if you re-read your post you seem to be justifying your PF call with this exact same reasoning that you're giving out to the OP about, only difference is it didn't work out for you this time

Gholimoli wrote:

he likes making moves(not unlike my self) and so i decided to call his raise.

Honestly how often will you have an A here?? I'd say about 3% of the time. His call was fine.

Gholimoli

Ste05 wrote:

Gholi, you played this hand 100 times worse then the OP, although you did admit you were on tilt. IMO the action didn't strongly suggest he was beaten. Also I think if you re-read your post you seem to be justifying your PF call with this exact same reasoning that you're giving out to the OP about, only difference is it didn't work out for you this time

Honestly how often will you have an A here?? I'd say about 3% of the time. His call was fine.

my preflop play was horrible Ste and no excuse for it.
however i disagree about not having an A there becuase its quit possible.
the times that i dont have the A i have JJ .my point is hero is often beat here and thats what makes the call bad.

Hectorjelly

Gholi, once someone commits 1/4 of their stack preflop they should never fold AA or KK on the flop heads up without a very solid read. Against someone on Tilt you can never fold no matter what the flop or the action. That ace means its unlikely there is any value to KK betting out of position, the only way to make money in this spot is to check to induce a bluff. The OP played this hand perfectly

Doc Farrell

I thought you were banned HJ? Can you do me a favour and keep your non-poker related opinions off this poker site. My life is too short to try to decipher whether you are joking or not.

in fact i'm probably too old to be reading any of this stuff in the first place.

how on earth did you not get banned? did Michael McDowell intervene again?

staringelf

i agree with gholimoli in this hand. there is no way the OP can think villain doesn't have an ace. what could he possibly have called a re-raise pre flop with? OP has only put 1/4 of his stack in. an Ace flops and he can't let go of his KK. in this instance he got away with it but in my experience you're way behind to something like AK/AQ/AT here at least 75% of the time.

you can't possibly have a read that he doesn't have an Ace here. the way the hand played out it looks most likely that he has AK/AQ.

sorry, but that's exactly the type of call i see online from complete fish. if you can't let KK go when an A hits on the flop and you CALL an all in bet with no real reason to (he wasn't anywhere near pot commited) its just bad play.

Lafortezza

Doc Farrell wrote:

I thought you were banned HJ? Can you do me a favour and keep your non-poker related opinions off this poker site. My life is too short to try to decipher whether you are joking or not.

in fact i'm probably too old to be reading any of this stuff in the first place.

how on earth did you not get banned? did Michael McDowell intervene again?

What should he be banned for?

Hectorjelly

fuzzbox wrote:

Thats pretty funny ... what about you?

PS - I voted for call.

52s obv!

Bandana boy

So it is actually slightly more than a 1/3 of my stack in the pot pre flo
And villain has a range that while including and a also includes more than 1 hand that doesnt
Leading is silly as it has next to no postive return
While check calling gives me calling 118 to into 265 which i think here is at least about evens given villains range

raising 1/3 rd pre with KK and getting heads up is pretty close to pot commited in my book (especially against a villain like gholi)if second player came along i think i lay down and against many villains on PPP i lay down here as if i feel they dont bet behind my K here

Hectorjelly

Doc Farrell wrote:

I thought you were banned HJ? Can you do me a favour and keep your non-poker related opinions off this poker site. My life is too short to try to decipher whether you are joking or not.

in fact i'm probably too old to be reading any of this stuff in the first place.

how on earth did you not get banned? did Michael McDowell intervene again?

Wrong thread man. If you have any comments to make you should make them in the other thread, this one is mainly about poker.

staringelf

lafortezza wrote:

What should he be banned for?

From the poker forum charter sticky:


3. Outbursts of personal abuse/racism/hissy fits/sarcastic jibes/newbie bashing etc. will not be tolerated. These posts will be deleted. Punishment Type - A or B at the Moderator's discretion depending on the severity of the post.

Punishment Types

A - Instant Ban for minimum of one week (length of ban at the discretion of the Moderator).
B - Anything from a warning to a banning at the discretion of the Moderator.

ntlbell

Type B was issued....

Strange did you ever get a chips outfit for xmas?

ntlbell

lol I just noticed them two look a lot like gholi and culchie...


Scary

Lafortezza

OK, lets keep this thread on topic. Could anyone with a problem pm with details of the complaint and quote whatever needs to be addressed.

BACK ON TOPIC PLZ!!

staringelf

ntlbell wrote:

Type B was issued....

Strange did you ever get a chips outfit for xmas?

so at the discretion of the moderator the comments weren't bad enough to merit a banning? lovely. what exactly do you have to say to get banned around here?

seems like preferential treatment for anyone with a post count of over a thousand. oh by the way ntlbell - hilarious picture. i presume that was intended for me. you're a wanker. great, add me to the ban list now too. i don't care, i don't particularly want to contribute to a forum that allows scumbag comments like those of HJ to get away without punishment

Lafortezza

staringelf wrote:

you're a wanker. great, add me to the ban list now too.

banned for a week.
I've re-read the thread in question and looked at HJ's comments. Please pm me with exact quotes of HJ's comments that you think are ban-worthy. I couldn't see them.

ollyk1

lafortezza wrote:

banned for a week.
I've re-read the thread in question and looked at HJ's comments. Please pm me with exact quotes of HJ's comments that you think are ban-worthy. I couldn't see them.

I read HJs original comments last night and I was about to ask could I borrow it for my sig because I thought it was that funny.

I saw where HJ was coming from and the sarcasm in the statement and felt it was intended more as a poker put down then anything else which there is nothing wrong with imho. Thats what the game is about in part and expressing that on a board to discuss poker seems fine to me. If he really wanted to get into the politics of thing then he's have posted it on the politics forum for serious discussion.

Of course Rooney Dives and a few others seem to have their own agenda and seem to be looking for chances to jump down HJs throat on certain issues. I thought his conduct was reasonable in the thread and all this looking to get people banned reminds of the spoilt kids playing soccer these days looking to get people sent off.

If you want to engage in a debate then articulate your point of view don't go running for people to be banned.

Poker attracts a lot of intelligent and opinionated people which is great and stimulating, it can also be infuriating and painful to listen too. You guys do know you can ignore peoples comments on the interweb thingy though right??


P.S. From what I saw of what Marq said I thought you were a bit harsh banning him Laf but maybe you wanted to be seen to be impartial and coming down hard on this sort of thing, plus he was on a warning I guess. Still harsh though...

Edit: Dev while it must be tempting to go in and add your bit on locked threads I think you are only promoting and encouraging people to pull other topics of track and not letting these storm in a tea cup threads die. But heh its your board I guess

DeVore

I didnt realise it was locked. I almost never post on locked threads because it looks bad as people cannot answer me.

DeV.

DeVore

This has now derailed at least 3 threads. I'm going to ban the fnck out of the next people to derail a thread with it. Start a thread in Humanities for it if you want to talk about that sort of thing. Now back on topic.

DeV.

ollyk1

DeVore wrote:

I didnt realise it was locked. I almost never post on locked threads because it looks bad as people cannot answer me.

DeV.

Makes sense now. No biggy in any event. It could have been an interesting debate and I was going to post on it before it entered the mudslide. Now its handbags at dawn lol!!

ollyk1

Back on topic:

I think I might I have called you Gholi but maybe thats why you get so much action when you have an ace too which has to be a long run good thing!! I'm very unsure on the call or fold here, I can see arguments for both.

Gholimoli

Hectorjelly wrote:

Gholi, once someone commits 1/4 of their stack preflop they should never fold AA or KK on the flop heads up without a very solid read. Against someone on Tilt you can never fold no matter what the flop or the action. That ace means its unlikely there is any value to KK betting out of position, the only way to make money in this spot is to check to induce a bluff. The OP played this hand perfectly

i disagree with this.you mau have a point with AA if you commit 1/4 of your stack pre-flop then HU commiting the rest of it is mostly fine but KK deffo is not there.
to suggest that you should get it all in with KK once you have 1/4 of your stack in pre-flop on any flop is a losing strategy IMO.
my range of hands here was AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK and thats pretty much it .
on the flop he only beats QQ of that range really.

cardshark202

Gholimoli wrote:

i disagree with this.you mau have a point with AA if you commit 1/4 of your stack pre-flop then HU commiting the rest of it is mostly fine but KK deffo is not there.
to suggest that you should get it all in with KK once you have 1/4 of your stack in pre-flop on any flop is a losing strategy IMO.
my range of hands here was AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK and thats pretty much it .
on the flop he only beats QQ of that range really.

You had none of those hands!

Gholimoli

cardshark202 wrote:

You had none of those hands!

i take it your just trying to be funny and failing at it so i will not comment on this.

Shortstack

Gholimoli wrote:

my range of hands here was AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK and thats pretty much it .
.

Erm, lol.

That's what a non tilting TAG might have not a steaming gholi.