Bedding a Toilet on Tiles?

azzeretti

I had to take out the toilet to put down tiles recently. Just before I went to put it back in I got talking to a tiler who reckons he just beds the toilet with silicon on the tiles and doesn't bother fixing it in.
Does anyone know how realistic this sounds? It would be much easier than drilling/screwing.

Anyone any suggestions?

wyndham

Sounds like a cowboy. Would be alright for a while but would move eventually. Screw it down.

Viking House

I've come across plenty of toilets that were held down with silicone only when I was doing bathroom refurbs and they were generally difficult to remove but a job looks unfinished without the screws.
Now where's my horse?

Endymion

The real reason they use silicon, is because they don't want to run the risk of cracking the tile by drilling through it. Silicon should be applied anyway. If the seal breaks and you don't have screw, you could be letting yourself in for major problems, 10 minutes work, and if you use a tile drill bit, theres very little risk of cracking.

wyndham

If you do decide to go ahead with Johnny-Silo, be sure to fill in the holes taht would have taken the screws on the sanitary ware with silo to prevent the flow of fluid (bodily and other) in under the pan. You won't be able to get under here to clean it afterwards. If there are any portly people who will be using it, it's really best to screw it.

Xennon

get a marking device that will fit thru the screw holes of the pan, mark the area in the tile that each screw will hit (watch the angle of attack).Using a pencil mark the outline of the base. Also at this point check the alignment of all pipework. Remove the Pan, tape down the tiles with some masking tape (try not to pass the outer pencil mark, the light stuff is good, you can see your marks thru it, wide cellotape works too. using a masonary bit say a 10mm min. drill out the tiles at those points, do not drill into the wooden flooring.

run a good bead of silicone inside the line of yer pencil mark. Sit the pan in place, and fit pipes. Dump some silo into the screw holes aswell. Now your screws have a clear shot at the wood, and will be nicely sealed aswell.

works fer me anyway, the pro lads might have some more salt circle magic for this kinda thing.

CJhaughey

I would recommend Gripfill over silicone for a toilet, Gripfill doesn't flex as much as silicone when weight is applied.
Screw as usual and you could even grout around the toilet/tile junction to get a nice hygenic finish.
Silicone doesn't have any great holding strength, it seals well but doesn't stick things together well, some of the newer products fix,n,seal are mush better for bonding and sealing than silicone.

ircoha

Xennon wrote:

get a marking device that will fit thru the screw holes of the pan, mark the area in the tile that each screw will hit (watch the angle of attack).Using a pencil mark the outline of the base. Also at this point check the alignment of all pipework. Remove the Pan, tape down the tiles with some masking tape (try not to pass the outer pencil mark, the light stuff is good, you can see your marks thru it, wide cellotape works too. using a masonary bit say a 10mm min. drill out the tiles at those points, do not drill into the wooden flooring.

run a good bead of silicone inside the line of yer pencil mark. Sit the pan in place, and fit pipes. Dump some silo into the screw holes aswell. Now your screws have a clear shot at the wood, and will be nicely sealed aswell.

works fer me anyway, the pro lads might have some more salt circle magic for this kinda thing.

Masonary bit on some tiles will either not work or crack the tile. IMHO: use a proper tile bit

beldin

One trick I have tried is to put a small bead of the silicon on the base of the toilet a day or so in advance. This will provide a nice cushion when putting down the toilet. If you put silicon on the floor and then have to adjust the toilet or make a mistake then it gets quite messy.
Also don't use hammer action on the surface of the tiles when drilling. If you cannot get a tile bit I used to use a metal drill bit to start things off and then an ordinary masonry bit when the surface was breached.

Xennon

Tile bit...There ye go...never new that existed....thanks fer info..

Endymion

Xennon wrote:

Tile bit...There ye go...never new that existed....thanks fer info..

They do. They look like small arrows. You'll understand when you see one.

ctrl-alt-delete

Xennon wrote:

Tile bit...There ye go...never new that existed....thanks fer info..

The way you described is exactly how i would do it, the angle is important to avoid cracking the pan when screwing the screws in. In my opinion a normal masonary bit will go through 99% of ceramic tiles, no need to fork out on a tile bit.

GreeBo

Xennon wrote:

drill out the tiles at those points, do not drill into the wooden flooring.

Why on earth not?
Obviously you will need a smaller bit but why would you not drill through the floor that you are trying to fix through?

Endymion

ctrl-alt-delete wrote:

In my opinion a normal masonary bit will go through 99% of ceramic tiles, no need to fork out on a tile bit.

How can you say something like that? In my opinion, 65.25% of 72.68% non ceramic tiles crack at a drill deepth of 25.9%*. such figures depend totally on the tile. Some tiles will crack pretty much everytime, which other will almost never crack. Surface plays a large part in deciding it a tile will crack. A tile bit greatly reduced the chances of a tile cracking, which when you think about it, its allot less hassle to use a tile bit, then it is to replace a cracked tile.


*bull****

GreeBo you wouldn't drill a pilot hole through the floor your fixing too, unless there was a serious chance of the timber spliting.

CJhaughey

Forget tile bits I have been there worn my wallet and my patience out and finally found the light.
Diamond Core bits are the absolute best way of drilling holes in Porcelain Tiles.
with a carbide tip tile drill you are physically grinding all the material from the hole, with a Diamond core drill all you are removing is the material on the perimeter of the hole, much easier.
They are available from ebay for about 10 euro delivered for a pack of 7 from 3-12mm diameter from Hong Kong.
thats actually less then the price of one carbide tipped tile/glass drill here.
Seriously go and buy some now and forget the job with the tile drill, I spent the guts of 40 euro on bits just to hang a few pieces of bathroom furniture and a toilet.

Endymion

Allot of people burn out tile bits because they don't realise that you need to use them at a low RPM. But, yea Biamond Core bits look liek they would do the job.

CJhaughey

Not alone do tile bits need to be driven slow but they also need to be kept cool I have found when working alone a sponge filled with water and placed above the drill will slowly leak a dribble of water on to the work area, this helps but regardless tile bits only have a limited life when drilling porcelain tiles.
The problem is the trailing edge eventually chips and renders the bit useless.

ctrl-alt-delete

Carnivore wrote:

How can you say something like that? In my opinion, 65.25% of 72.68% non ceramic tiles crack at a drill deepth of 25.9%*. such figures depend totally on the tile. Some tiles will crack pretty much everytime, which other will almost never crack. Surface plays a large part in deciding it a tile will crack. A tile bit greatly reduced the chances of a tile cracking, which when you think about it, its allot less hassle to use a tile bit, then it is to replace a cracked tile.


*bull****

GreeBo you wouldn't drill a pilot hole through the floor your fixing too, unless there was a serious chance of the timber spliting.

Because in my experience i have never had a problem. I did highlight the term ceramic tiles. Once a decent bed of adhesive (i.e. there are no hollow areas under the tile) has been applied, drilling through the tile should be no problem. Thats how i can say something like that.

Corkey123

azzeretti

Getting back to your original question.

I had a unit that sat flush (forgive the pun) to the wall and I did exactly what you tiler friend said and it does work as the unit hasn't budged. That said yours is sitting on the floor and would be different but give it a go and if it doesn't work out then revert to other methods of fixing it. No harm done.

On the subject of fixing it to the floor, I fixed a downstairs loo to the floor by using tile floor adhesive, couldn't be arse in attempted to drill through tiles at the exact angle and still risking wreaking the pan. It is the most frequently used loo in the house and hasn't budged either.

rooferPete

Hi,

If using silicone make sure it is designed for kitchens and bathrooms or it will look very dirty in no time and impossible to clean.

If using screws make sure they are real Brass Screws, brass coloured screws will rust, also use an old time screw driver it will mean you are in control of the angle and will "feel" any obstructions that might crack the pan.

A pilot hole is very helpful because brass screws can twist out of shape when under pressure, soap on the threads will help "grease" the timber and allow a neat finish flush with the pan.

.

GreeBo

Carnivore wrote:

GreeBo you wouldn't drill a pilot hole through the floor your fixing too, unless there was a serious chance of the timber spliting.

I never screw anything into any type of wood unless I have a pilot hole.
Why risk it? The few minutes it takes to drill the pilot hole is far less time than having to take the WC back up and find a new position for it because you split te floor board under the pan.

As with anything there is the correct way and the quick way.