AA on button - Fitz Holdem hand

biteme

Just looking for how people think I played this.

Editted for reads on players

Table is 6 handed
Villian 1 - SB - (1000ish) -
Loose player hasn't won this stack but bought in with it.
Called an allin earlier with Q2o on AAQ board. He's a bit nuts.

Villian 2 - CO - (185)
Good solid player for the most part but a bit fond of bluffing.

Hero - Button - (500ish)

Dealt - AsAc

CO limps for 2

Hero raises to 10

SB Calls
BB Folds
CO Calls

Flop - (30) - 6d 3d 3h

SB Checks
CO bets 25
Hero Calls
SB Calls

Turn - (105) - 8d

SB Checks
CO Bets 25
Hero Calls
SB Calls

River - (180) - 4c

SB Checks
CO pushs for 125
Hero - Action??

valor

How can you play live and not have any reads?

biteme

Edited to add basic reads on players

Goodluck2me

i raise the flop, it should get rid of lower flush draws. it gies you abtter idea whereyou stand and also gives you the opportunity to win the pot. i dont think all worse hands fold here and you may get a call fromm 99+imo, as i have seen done in there often enough.
not sure what my line would be on the turn.

The Sheriff 101

I expect its Pot Limit so nothing u can do about pre-flop raise
personally id like to make the raise a bit bigger if as u say the 2 villains are a bit loose but again i imagine it is Pot limit.

I dont like the flat call on the flop as their is the possibility of a flush i understand that u want them to catch a card but i would still raise.

i am a bit suspicious of the 25 bet on the turn smells like he made the flush or A3 but also as he may feel u have ak kq and will fold not so sure though when the sb is still in so maybe another attempt at a poor bluff (u did say he make far too many poor attemps at bluffs)

river i think u have to call with the pot laying u odds of 2-1 and it being so likely that he is weak/bluffing

overall i think u made your mistake on the flop.
i believe a raise would have given u all the information that you needed

Gholimoli

raise the flop bet.
by doing this :
you are making it expensive for any player behind you to be chasing anything so if they a raise and reraise you can significantly narrow their range.
also you will be able to get a better feel to whether or not CO has a made hand or is drawing. when you reraise his raise he will more than likely try to protect his hand against draws if he has a made hand or will just call your raise which will indicate a drawing hand perhaps.
another advantage is that CO will often check the turn if he is drawing and sometimes even if trapping with a 3 he may check the turn in which case you can check behind to keep the pot manageable and see a cheap show down.

cardshark202

I prefer flat-calling to raising the flop. Though in a game where the players are this bad, raising isn't the worst option.

Gholimoli

cardshark202 wrote:

I prefer flat-calling to raising the flop. Though in a game where the players are this bad, raising isn't the worst option.

why ?

ianmc38

River's a fold for me and it isn't particularly close. The cutoff would want to be way too fond of bluffing for me to call here.

eggie

not a great flop for aces, i'm folding here - too many draws that could have hit and a paired board that looks that someone has hit on.

Marq

eggie wrote:

not a great flop for aces, i'm folding here

In a raised pot, this is a fantastic flop for aces. Unfortunately in this game, the fact that it's a raised pot doesn't really cut down the ranges of the other two players by much at all. But this is still a fúcking great flop for aces.

eggie wrote:

- too many draws that could have hit and a paired board that looks that someone has hit on.

the only draws that have hit by the river are the diamonds and a very unlikely middlepin straight. So we're worried about a flush, some hand with a three in it, or a house that has been made on the turn or river.

Call. The players in this game are awful.

biteme

Gholimoli wrote:

raise the flop bet.
by doing this :
you are making it expensive for any player behind you to be chasing anything so if they a raise and reraise you can significantly narrow their range.
also you will be able to get a better feel to whether or not CO has a made hand or is drawing. when you reraise his raise he will more than likely try to protect his hand against draws if he has a made hand or will just call your raise which will indicate a drawing hand perhaps.
another advantage is that CO will often check the turn if he is drawing and sometimes even if trapping with a 3 he may check the turn in which case you can check behind to keep the pot manageable and see a cheap show down.

I understand why you and others want to raise this flop. But your reasoning that I'll see a cheap river doesn't make sense. If I raise to say 75 on the flop I think I scream out what my hand is and make it very easy for the other too players to play against me. Also if the CO calls he'll only have about 100 behind. I think there is a lot of cards he can push on the turn or river to which I would have to fold.

The reasoning behind my flat call was that I didn't wanna scream out to the other players I have a big over pair. My raise preflop to them means I could have anything. The SB earlier has seen me raise in the CO with 52s and flop a flush.

By just calling behind I think I let a lot of worse hands bet into me. Any 6, any over pair. The only thing in the hand I was confused about was the SB because I couldn't figure out what he was calling with. But when the diamond comes on the turn I'm pretty sure neither of them have made their flush from the action.

Anyway I called the 125 and the SB folded. My hand was good and the CO told me he had the 6 later but mucked his cards. TBH I don't know if he had the 6 or was just bluffing with air.

cardshark202

Gholimoli wrote:

why ?

Because you have an opponent who is prone to bluffing. Raising isn't terrible, but I like to keep him betting into me on further streets with nothing, rather than let him get away from most of the hands we beat and are drawing to a couple of outs. When it gets to the river, I would probably have to call here, the players in this game are so bad that, they will never put you on aces from the way it was played and will be value betting any pair. Its not an easy call though, considering the number hands that beat you. If you raise the flop in this spot you probably make less money.

ianmc38

biteme wrote:

I understand why you and others want to raise this flop. But your reasoning that I'll see a cheap river doesn't make sense. If I raise to say 75 on the flop I think I scream out what my hand is and make it very easy for the other too players to play against me. Also if the CO calls he'll only have about 100 behind. I think there is a lot of cards he can push on the turn or river to which I would have to fold.

Eh raising here doesnt telegraph your hand at all unelss you repeatedly play overpairs, draws, trips and houses (or other hands) in the exact same manner. Realistically, if you vary your play, you could have any of these holdings.

The Sheriff 101

Correct me if i am wrong but the reason u didnt raise the flop was that u wanted them to continue betting into u right?

well if so u have decided to call them no matter what comes ? unless of course runner runner diamond or something disasterous like 4 to a str8.

if u are scared of a diamond comming then bet.

The Sheriff 101

biteme wrote:

I think there is a lot of cards he can push on the turn or river to which I would have to fold.

well if that is the case u bet the flop.

biteme

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

well if that is the case u bet the flop.

Read in context

The Sheriff 101

biteme wrote:

Read in context

Sorry if i came across as arrogant it was not my intention

but if u are gonna give him cheap cards knowing he is "fond of bluffing" then i believe your intention is to call him no matter what comes?

i understand ur dilema but if u are going to fold if a diamond comes why not bet?

biteme

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

Sorry if i came across as arrogant it was not my intention

but if u are gonna give him cheap cards knowing he is "fond of bluffing" then i believe your intention is to call him no matter what comes?

i understand ur dilema but if u are going to fold if a diamond comes why not bet?

By read in context I meant that I was responding to someone telling me to raise the flop. If I raise the pot I bloat it without getting much information. I think I get a lot worse hands than me to fold and if either just flat call I make it much easier for them to play the hand against me as I don't know what they have other than the flush draw or a possibly a 3. I don't think a 3 is gonna re-raise me here and let me know where I am. I think by calling I get more information on the turn and can re-evaluate then. As it comes the flush hits on the turn and the CO leads for less than a 1/4 of the pot. It looks like he is either continuing a bluff or still betting his 6 or over pair. I think he bets more if he's hit his flush.

eggie

Marq wrote:

In a raised pot, this is a fantastic flop for aces. Unfortunately in this game, the fact that it's a raised pot doesn't really cut down the ranges of the other two players by much at all. But this is still a fúcking great flop for aces.

the only draws that have hit by the river are the diamonds and a very unlikely middlepin straight. So we're worried about a flush, some hand with a three in it, or a house that has been made on the turn or river.

Call. The players in this game are awful.

I was refering to the board rather than just the flop, didnt explain that to well. However, do awful players not chase middle pin straights and flush draws? call raises with rags and go to show down with trips?

So all we have to worry about is a flush, trips, and a house. Thats a lot of worrying with only an overpair to the board. Of course there is a chance its a bluff, but its probably being there that makes the decision a lot easier than writing about it.

The Sheriff 101

Well if u are called you can be sure some1 is drawing against u right (how bad are these guys) and if he bets again on the turn i feel it is easier to get away from the hand as opposed to calling him down hoping he does not have a 3 flush str8.

i know i was not involved in the hand and dont have any reads on the players but i am not talking about this specific hand just the circumstances if you raise him on the flop he calls and checks the turn u can get a free river card or raise it and get him off his draw

The Sheriff 101

Personally i dont think AA strong enough in this position to be giving cheap cards with that board
although if i am wrong i would like to be corrected

Marq

eggie wrote:

So all we have to worry about is a flush, trips, and a house. Thats a lot of worrying with only an overpair to the board. Of course there is a chance its a bluff, but its probably being there that makes the decision a lot easier than writing about it.

If there were the only hands that the villian bet in this way then yes, we have a lot to worry about, and we fold. As it is, the OP doesn't read him for a flush (reasonable assumption given the action I think) so we lose to the unlikely straight and any house/three. But the point is that the villian in this game will bet many more hands that we do have beat, such as 55,77,99-KK, 67-A6, 86, 64, 84, and mathematically he is more likely to have one of these hands than a hand that has us beat.

I sometimes raise the turn here.