Next-Gen overhyped?

CiaranC

I got my 360 a few weeks back. Primarily because im into poking around in consumer electronics and seeing how they work, and you wont get a cheaper, more advanced machine to do so than a games console. It was cheap enough, so thats grand.

Lately, Ive started playing a couple of games on it, and tbh, im underwhelmed.

Despite the marketing guff, as far as i can see the main step forward in next-gen is GPU and CPU power. (Oh yeah, you can download demos and videos from live - wow. And 360 is a far, far less media-capable machine than a modded xbox 1.) Except the graphics arent all that more advanced. Compare Riddick on Xbox 1 to Prey on 360. Even with HD; the improvements are fairly blase. LOTR BFME2 runs like a dog, Ive gotten better RTS performance on my Commodore 64. The HD trailer for Saints Row looks laughable also.

Admittedly, I played the first minute or two of Oblivion which looked a little more promising, but one game in a year? Come on. Am I missing something here?

Ciaran500

Prey, BFME and a trailer isn't exactly a good show of a console.

CiaranC

You said it.

I also have Burnout: Revenge (meh) and Fight Night 3 (same as xbox1 with nice texture mapping).

Is there some killer app out there that ive missed?

GrumPy

CiaranC wrote:

Is there some killer app out there that ive missed?

No yet, no. (I like oblivion, and graw that's all for me tbh)

MS's plan all along was to get the console on the market, get as many units sold asap, and then BOMBARD the market with "killer apps" on ps3's debut.

(gears of war, mass effect, forza 2, etc...)

Julez

Think back to the launch of any consoles, lets say ps2, think of how the first games looked... now think of a recent game on the ps2, I guarantee you the recent one looks far better!

Smoggy

There is no doubt that games get better with time, But are the new consoles next gen is doubtful in my eyes. All that we have so far from the 360 is better graphics with more advanced physics.

A generation to me has to be defined by a change, such as from the says of the snes which was 99% 2D to the world of PSX which was 3D. Of the 3 new consoles that are coming out I think they only one that can be might beable to be classed as Next Gen is the Wii. But we will have to wait and see how it pans out.

mcgovern

This always amazes me. What were you people expecting?
Fully immersive VR?
Your change from 2D to 3D is the change from SD to HD. And what was the big change from PSX to PS2?

How many consoles have had killer apps right at the start? The fact remains that the 360 has the likes of Gears of War, Forza 2, Mass Effect.... all coming out soon.
Its always the 2nd generation games that finally start to show the potential of the console, and from the first looks at the above and the bucketload of other promising titles shown at E3, the 360s potential is about to be tapped

CiaranC

This always amazes me. What were you people expecting?
Fully immersive VR?

The marketing promised insane increases in CPU/GPU power, which is a pretty tenuos reason to upgrade in the first place. Except what we have is a handful of titles with higher res textures, and some like BFME2 which actually perform worse than the equivalent on the previous gen.

2D -> 3D opened up whole new genres of gameplay. SD -> HD gives us what? More crappy FPS titles with a few less jaggies and some nice reflecting water effects. Great.

mcgovern

CiaranC wrote:

The marketing promised insane increases in CPU/GPU power, which is a pretty tenuos reason to upgrade in the first place. Except what we have is a handful of titles with higher res textures, and some like BFME2 which actually perform worse than the equivalent on the previous gen.

2D -> 3D opened up whole new genres of gameplay. SD -> HD gives us what? More crappy FPS titles with a few less jaggies and some nice reflecting water effects. Great.

Why do people buy new graphics cards every year then?
People want better graphics. People want more enemies on the screen. People want better physics. People want better AI.
If the game makers haven't harnessed the 360s power yet to give us all of these, its not the consoles fault.
The fact remains that for ~€400 your getting something that can play the latest games for at least a few years(Sony saying 10 year shelf life for the PS3). New graphics cards alone for a good gaming PC would probably cost you this over 5 years.

mcgovern

mcgovern wrote:

How many consoles have had killer apps right at the start?

Nintendo 64 had quite a sweet little belter of a game in mario64 at launch


in fact... most of nintendo's launches have "killer apps"

quad_red

with the 360 so far.

It's slick, looks great, handles multi player superbly and has some great games (Oblivion, COD etc.).

I quite happen to like 'crappy FPS titles' Ciaran.

Is it the holodeck on the Enterprise? No

Is it the cheapest way to enjoy such cool graphics and gameplay? I would argue, yes.

So I'm happy out.

mcgovern

Deleted User wrote:

Nintendo 64 had quite a sweet little belter of a game in mario64 at launch


in fact... most of nintendo's launches have "killer apps"

So killer in fact, that apart from the handheld market they've steadily been losing market share for the last what, decade?
Hopefully that will change with the Wii so we can get some innovation into the market, but to me a killer app is a game you will buy the console for. Goldeneye is the only one that springs to mind for me, and I have a N64.

FutureGuy

The sad fact is that, excluding a few exceptions, we have been all playing the same old games for the last 5 years, until the DS showed.

Soccer games get updated league and better looking football boots, FPS received flashier graphics and better AI.

But we have had nothing revolutionary on 360 and PS3 is underwhelming.

I read up on what Dark Steel on the Wii will allow you to do. Knock things over on screen using the nunchuck to clear the way with a swipe of your left hand. Be a basa$$ and hold your gun sideways by holding the controller at the same angle. Lob grenades overarm or under arm by carrying out the same motion with your controller. And everyone knows about the sword by now (although the sword control has had to be overhauled as it wasnt sensitive enough, although this has been fixed).

I've been playing games since I was 5, i'm 29 now and am looking at a gaming world dominated by crummy movie tie-in ans game companies simply copying ideas over and over.

I cannot wait to try the Wii and basically reignige my imagination. And don't get me started on Zelda

FutureGuy

Pressing a button to use a sword or slashing a controller in real world and real time to use a sword...no contest.

Riesen_Meal

Id agree with you to a certain extent about the Wii being innovative in the controller field but I have a question regarding the Wii: do you have to "swipe at the screen" in every game? Or is this optional? can it be turned off?

As much as I love Zelda I cant see myself wanting to get up out of my seat and slay the bad guys over and over again, sometimes id just wanna relax in my gamechair and chill have a spliff and play Zelda!

I really want a Wii too, will wait til around Xmas myself, let the bugs iron out!

Smellyirishman

Fieldog wrote:

I really want a Wii too, will wait til around Xmas myself, let the bugs iron out!

You think they are going to iron out bugs in 2-6 weeks? Not likely, and you might find it harder to source a Wii at that stage.

I think HD is at least semi-worthy of the Next-Gen praise because it really does make a big difference to games (IMO), sure, there will be nothing entirly innovative in the 360 or PS3 (motion detection in PS£) but the consoles are much more powerful than their predecessors and that's what gives them the "next-gen" title. Personally I have been pretty amazed by some of the games.

quad_red

I've got a DS and it's got some quite unusual games, ones that haven't been tried before.

But most of them are tried and trusted formulas.

Now, I don't have a HD tv, but I've found 360 games quite stunning and immersive. Running through a smoke grenade in Call of Duty or at a sunset in Oblivion.

That level of immersion wasn't something I necessarily felt with the xobox or PS2.

So, for me, there is an added level of immersion and excitement.

Karmafaerie

Get a pc with media center then try and tell me that the 360 isn't revolutionary!
Wait until Vista comes out, and every gamer with a pc will be creaming themselves at the prospect of a fully cinqued up pc/console combo!
The 360 is a full entertainment system, and it was built future proof.
When the PS3 bring out their internet browser, the 360 browser will be revealed, when the Wii bring out their fancy new controller, the 360 will launch their hand sensors.

The arcade idea is genius, allowing you to buy games for next to nothing, and a lot of classic titles are included (SF2 and Sonic).

By launch for the other two consoles, there'll be over 160 titles on the 360!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJTNBKCir58


It's as simple as this.
The xbox 360 has had 100% market dominance for a year (by the time the other two come out).
There's been no need for them to pull out the big guns yet.
They want to wait until the launch of the wii and PS3 before saturating the market with their improvements and taking some of the steam away from them.

quad_red

Karmafaerie wrote:

Get a pc with media center then try and tell me that the 360 isn't revolutionary!

That's the bloody problem though, isn't it?

I have a €1,200 laptop with hundreds of quid of operating system on it - the standard O/S. Windows XP.

I've also spent almost 500quid on a console.


But that it insufficient for MS.

Who want even more money to do something which the 360 is perfectly capable of doing anyway. If it can stream music and pics with media connect to XP then it can bloody well stream video.

monument

Karmafaerie wrote:

It's as simple as this.
The xbox 360 has had 100% market dominance for a year (by the time the other two come out).

Where exactly has the 360 had "100% market dominance"???

Have a read of the following...

“North America is still the only territory where the Xbox 360 has seen major success”

Rob Fahey, editor of Gamesindustry.biz, claims that in the new console war pro-Microsoft reporting is “influenced heavily by the American dominance of English-language media”, and that “whereas the Xbox 360 has sold 3.3 million units in North America, it has sold only 1.3 million in Europe and just 400,000 elsewhere”.

http://www.gamestoaster.com/games_toaster/2006/08/editor_points_t.html

PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable continue to dominate Irish games charts

PlayStation Portable alone still frequently outranks Xbox & 360 in percentage sales

http://www.gamestoaster.com/games_toaster/2006/07/playstation_con.html

Microsoft has had a tough time introducing the Xbox brand to the Japanese market. The original Xbox was globally crushed by the PlayStation 2, but the console faired far worse in Japan than it did in the US and Europe. While Microsoft has made some changes with the release of the Xbox 360 in Japan, the console is actually performing worse that its predecessor.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13380

Karmafaerie wrote:

When the PS3 bring out their internet browser, the 360 browser will be revealed...

...There's been no need for them to pull out the big guns yet.
They want to wait until the launch of the wii and PS3 before saturating the market with their improvements and taking some of the steam away from them.

This type of thing is going around here a lot. It’s funny how so many Xbox fanboys are willing for Xbox “improvements” to be dictated by Sony and Nintendo release schedules.

CiaranC

Get a pc with media center then try and tell me that the 360 isn't revolutionary!

Why on earth would I get a PC + a licenced OS (costing what, a grand?) to access some limited HTPC functionality?

Its not revolutionary, you can do way more with a €60 xbox 1 and a softmod, or a €500 HTPC

mcgovern

monument wrote:

This type of thing is going around here a lot. It’s funny how so many Xbox fanboys are willing for Xbox “improvements” to be dictated by Sony and Nintendo release schedules.

Gears of War, Emergence Day. Think that was co-incidence?

*has a PS1,PS2,GB,GBC,DS,N64,Mega Drive....*

evad_lhorg

every console has a max of around 35 - 40 amazing games in its lifespan and thats pushing it... we have seen 1 in Oblivion so far. Gears of war looks like it could be another if they get the multiplayer right. there are other good games, very good ones that i have played to death but they arent keepers. theyre the ones youll sell on for a new game. i only own pgr3 and oblivion now as I traded in Burnout revenge( boring compared to 3), GRAW(multiplayer was frustrating becuase it wasnt balanced enough) and nhl 2k6(loved it but the multiplayer didnt connect to anybody over the ocean.). I have owned perfect dark,dead or alive, fight night and call of duty 2 also but none of them grabbed my attention for long at all except maybe DOA4 which I played quite a bit.

they need somethin that will keep us coming back. halo 2 did it multiplayer for me. It was just so well set up. Rainbow six could be another but I have a feeling it wont be good.

its also rare that you see a shooter be considered a classsic game for a console especially when companies have new versions out every year. you dont hear about the fifas being the best game on ps2 or tiger woods being the best on game cube. you hear about shadow of the colossus or zelda or metroid. theyre missing that thing called originality. prey was clever and well done but let down by being very easy and bad multiplayer.... but thats what the new consoles need more of. Put a spin on the standard formulas. dont just make your new burnout have new tracks or paint scraping off the car. give it somethin new. dont make the new halo have triple wielding(where's the other gun come from? ) get some fresh ideas in there.....

wait none of you people can do that can you? damn ive wasted my time

evad_lhorg

oh and to monuments quotes.... I find it hard to believe that psp is still outselling anything. Working in a game shop I see a lot of what is sold and to be honest the psp is not doing well at all. the DS is finally walking all over it and the 360 is selling better from my experience too. again its just a pity they dont have more than the one great game in oblivion.

monument

evad_lhorg wrote:

oh and to monuments quotes.... I find it hard to believe that psp is still outselling anything. Working in a game shop I see a lot of what is sold and to be honest the psp is not doing well at all.

My source is Chart-Track's "TOP 20 ENTERTAINMENT SOFTWARE" charts. There's a listing of what % each game gets of each game; ie if it's a PC-only game it'll be...

%
FMT SHR
PC (100)

For a real example, Take 'Cars' at number 2 in the latest chart...

PS2 (52)
PSP (15)
DS (15)
GBA (13)

I went to a hell of a lot of trouble searching the charts between the start of the year to July 15, just before publication of the article. Of Xbox percentages in the all format chart this is what I found…

The three exclusive games were Dead or Alive 4 on Xbox 360, in at number seven, and out after a second week at number 12; the Outfit also on 360 in at 17th, not to be seen again; and Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter. GRAW was release on the 360 the first week, at number three, in its second week also on Xbox at number five (Xb360 96%/Xbox 4%), and the third week at 10 (360 93%/Xbox 7%). After the third week, it lost the exclusive as it was released on other formats.

There were few other Xbox games to break between the 50-100% marks, often only when pitted against the PC. On Xbox 360, Call of Duty 2 ranged from around 60-80%, Oblivion from 35-60%, Fight Night Round 3 entered the chart at 17th with 53%, recently Pray entered at six with 71%, and LOTR: The Battle for Middle-Earth II got a healthy 81%. Middle-Earth II however only entered at 15th place after it was on the top 20 as a PC-exclusive for three weeks early in the year. http://www.gamestoaster.com/games_toaster/2006/07/playstation_con.html

This compares to far healthier percentages for PS2 and PSP. I've published more then one of these articles, Microsoft have yet to take issue.

evad_lhorg wrote:

the DS is finally walking all over it and the 360 is selling better from my experience too.

In percentage terms the DS has been doing pretty well the last while, games like Super Mario Bros, and Dr Kawashima's Brain Training have helped. But the charts don’t support the idea that the Xbox/360 is doing better then what I’ve quoted in my article above.


For “WEEK 34 YEAR 2006, ENDING 26TH AUGUST” this is how well the Xbox and the 360 have done…

No./Name/format/percentage

3 THE MATRIX: PATH OF NEO XB (1)
7 STAR WARS: BATTLEFRONT II XB (3)
8 FIFA 06 XB360 (2)
9 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 2005 XB (2)
13 OVER THE HEDGE XB (5)
15 GRAND THEFT AUTO: SA XB (1)
20 THE GODFATHER XB (8)

That’s it. I’m even shocked with that. Two things to note...

It might be the summer drought of new releases but, in percentage terms, the sales from console to console shouldn’t vary too much.

Microsoft might have a few (hopefully) good games coming out, but Xbox/360 games usually have a rather short half-life (no pun intended) on the all format chart.

mcgovern wrote:

Gears of War, Emergence Day. Think that was co-incidence?

*has a PS1,PS2,GB,GBC,DS,N64,Mega Drive....*

I’m not saying Microsoft are not doing this, but I’m amazed how easily people are accepting it. We’ll release it “when it’s done” is one thing, “when it’ll hurt our competitors” is another.

evad_lhorg

its not going to hurt anything

ps3 will sell uot anyway even if halo3 4 and 5 were all out on the same day along with the greatest zelda game ever. doesnt mean the ps3 will be good just means people are idiots.


FUNNY STORY:
I work in game as some of you know and the other day a customer started talking to a colleague of mine about the ps3 and psp and the guy I work with was saying that the psp has about 2 very decent games and lots of shoddy ports and that the s3 has nothing decent announced to launch alongside it apart from the usual multi format stuff youll get on 360 along with a years worth of back catalog. the customer then said "yea but the problem is Microsoft and Nintendo are missing one thing.... the word 'Playstation'" I laughed to myself and the guy I worked with said "yea well if you or anyone else is dumb enough to buy a product because of a name then your just throwing your money away" to which the customer replied "Yea....I will".

now this was no kid or stupid scumbag this was a guy about mid 30s kinda posh.

any way....... my point? people are retarded

Timans

evad_lhorg wrote:

its not going to hurt anything

ps3 will sell uot anyway even if halo3 4 and 5 were all out on the same day along with the greatest zelda game ever. doesnt mean the ps3 will be good just means people are idiots.


FUNNY STORY:
I work in game as some of you know and the other day a customer started talking to a colleague of mine about the ps3 and psp and the guy I work with was saying that the psp has about 2 very decent games and lots of shoddy ports and that the s3 has nothing decent announced to launch alongside it apart from the usual multi format stuff youll get on 360 along with a years worth of back catalog. the customer then said "yea but the problem is Microsoft and Nintendo are missing one thing.... the word 'Playstation'" I laughed to myself and the guy I worked with said "yea well if you or anyone else is dumb enough to buy a product because of a name then your just throwing your money away" to which the customer replied "Yea....I will".

now this was no kid or stupid scumbag this was a guy about mid 30s kinda posh.

any way....... my point? people are retarded

Lat 3 words of that post = Genius.

monument

evad_lhorg wrote:

its not going to hurt anything

'Hurt' was in quotes.

evad_lhorg wrote:

the customer then said "yea but the problem is Microsoft and Nintendo are missing one thing.... the word 'Playstation'" I laughed to myself and the guy I worked with said "yea well if you or anyone else is dumb enough to buy a product because of a name then your just throwing your money away" to which the customer replied "Yea....I will".

now this was no kid or stupid scumbag this was a guy about mid 30s kinda posh.

any way....... my point? people are retarded

While I’ll take a 'wait and see' approach with the PS3; PlayStation the brand has a history of delivering… many games, broader appeal, not killing the current generation when the new arrives…

Microsoft’s take on the last one accounts for one of the few times I’ve actually been really disappointed with a company for something that doesn’t affect me (360 owner).

speedfreak

just as an aside is it worth getting a 360 if i'm happy with my current Xbox? Bearing in mind I havent got a HDTV (yet!) and I wont be playing 'Live' ...if i was to get a 360 should I just get the core unit?
cheers

TheGreatOne

speedfreak wrote:

just as an aside is it worth getting a 360 if i'm happy with my current Xbox? Bearing in mind I havent got a HDTV (yet!) and I wont be playing 'Live' ...if i was to get a 360 should I just get the core unit?
cheers

Don't get Core system...!!!
It's a waste of money as you'll probably end up forking out another €150 on HDD, wireless controller, headset etc.

The picture quality will still be great without HD, as long as you have a decent enough telly at home, not some doddgy 14' obscure brand thing that cost €150.

I'd really try and get broadband as well if its within your means, XBox Live is just awesome, and there's no telling what heights Microsoft are going to take it to on next-gen.

monument

speedfreak wrote:

just as an aside is it worth getting a 360 if i'm happy with my current Xbox? Bearing in mind I havent got a HDTV (yet!) and I wont be playing 'Live' ...if i was to get a 360 should I just get the core unit?
cheers

Yes, if not now, when the price drops. There's a good few 360 games that won't be on the Xbox.