Avoiding Trouble

Colm_OReilly

Thought I'd start a thread on avoiding trouble.

They way I see it, you can solve most, if not all of life's problems, by avoiding them in the first place.

Jitz wise: A guy I coach was at me to teach him armbar defence. His problem was he has no mount defence, and a poor guard. I told him we'd work on this instead. Two examples help me back this up.

One: Tom Oberhue was once telling me he was impressed at this one guy. He was saying "Wow, this guy is world class at escaping armbars." Chris Haetur (sp?) told him "Yeah, but he's world class at getting into armbars."

JK once asked a BJJ guru (could have been a gracie) to help him escape North South. The dude said "North South? Just get a better guard". It infuriated Kav but then he thought about it. And now John has a pretty sweet guard, almost as good as mine

Most of the time when we look for a solution we've usually done something to get ourselves there. I suppose this can be summed up in the mantra - prevention is better than a cure.

Street fights wise: If we agree that most fights occur when alcohol is involved, don't you have a choice when it comes to alcohol consumption - at least your own? You chose how much, with whom, and where to drink? If you change these don't you really reduce your chances of getting into a fight?

I know people can pull out random attacks, but I would suggest that most of the time you're responsible in some way for ending up that way. Most of the haves in our live are conditional on a choice we've made.

Thoughts?
Colm

Budo.Judo.Kev

More recently I've come to understand it's better to put your energy into avoiding putting yourself in the situation where you're getting armbarred then learning how to escape them once you're already almost caught. However, arm bar escaping is fun and it's fun to play the jitz came with higher stakes (if I **** up right now I'll get armbarred as opposed to, if i **** up right now i'll give up an opportunity to armbar).

Same with dodgy spots. It's my street/town/city/suburb/park I'll walk where I damn want. If 8 times out of 10 it leads to nothing significant that's fine. But 2/10 you're getting yourself into needless hassle is way too much for some people. To bring it back to the armbar, instead of completely avoiding this area nad these types of people, why don't I just continue to go to these areas (not just for the sake of it mind you) and if confrontation occurs solve it from the confrontation zone.

Alcohol. Ok we all agree that most of street fights in our towns and cities are caused by our own and others alcohol consumption. Solution? Stop drinking and avoid the pubs and clubs after 2am on Weekend? Solution? Continue to do as we please but try and be more aware.

Of course, never be so drunk that you've lost control but being drunk is often rather fun and if it leads to the occasional scuffle so what.

Baggio...

Colm_OReilly wrote:

They way I see it, you can solve most, if not all of life's problems, by avoiding them in the first place.

Good advise... (in theory). 99% of trouble can be avoided by taking the appropriate steps – but it's not always possible. I just don't think it's that black and white tbh.

Don't see how my mate was responsible. Unless he should not have been walking home from his friends gaff. Yes, he could have avoided trouble staying in - but who wants to be a Howard Hughes?:eek:

pma-ire

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I know people can pull out random attacks, but I would suggest that most of the time you're responsible in some way for ending up that way. Most of the haves in our live are conditional on a choice we've made.

Thoughts?
Colm

The random attack is just that man!

I've seen too many innocent people get clocked for no reason!!

Yes sometimes when people get approached by people with the mind to start something with them. They react in the wrong way and help push it along the way the antagonist had intended. This can be due to pride or semi-drunk bravado, but good levelled headed SD training should involve the pre-fight talk down and avoidance.

"Sticks and Stones"

Taking these fights out, you are then left with the ones where some poor dope gets a whack for being in the wrong place at the wong time, and that can turn as nasty as any.

Would you like to get brain damaged over a place in the que at the chipper on a night out??

Well it's happened!! So you can understand people wanting to look into ways of preventing it happening to them?

Dave!

Well, with relation to street fights... you could avoid getting into a fight ever if you don't go to pubs, drive home from work/college (so as to avoid the bus), stay in your house for extended periods, and avoid too much interaction with strangers (lest one be aggressive!).

But I'm sure we can agree that that's silly advice. I don't think it's healthy to have to avoid places you enjoy going to out of fear, and not drinking so as to be 100% ready for an attack. Sure, common sense might tell you to avoid biker bars unless you're a biker! But there are some nice pubs (etc.) that happen to be in dodgy areas, so I think this thread would be better suited if people give a bit of advice about how to avoid trouble without having to change your current lifestyle too much.

Just my thoughts!

paxo

To me the issue is recognising trouble. In my experience most people do not realise that they are in trouble untill it is to late to avoid it. I worked for a period as a crowd controller / doorman in Melbourne. The hardest part of the job was recognising the signals, rituals and body language clues that people gave before they became aggressive. To make matters more difficult these can be culturally specific and open to misinterprtation.

Ok when I lived in Ireland I grew up in the culture and I had an innate understanding of what could cause offence or trouble. However in Oz different cultural rules applied. e.g bastard is used as a term of affection.
Now when I was young if you called someone a bastard you were going to get a slap for your trouble. In Oz I came on the door at night to be greeted by G'day ya Irish bastard or occasionally ya pommie bastard. I must admit the latter greeting pissed me off as I am Irish not English

Awareness is more important than avoidance. E.G. I live in an area that has a lot of parkland including bike and jogging tracks. Unfortunately there has been several recent sexual assaults on women walking or cycling in the park. Depite repeated police warning I still encounter women and men jogging, skateing or cycling along with their Ipod playing loudly oblivious to what's happening around them. So should people avoid the park or should they be aware of their environment as they use it.

Bottom line be aware of your environment and be able to recognise and if appropriate avoid potential threats in it.
Paxo

Millionaire

I think alot of trouble is caused my alcohol, especially in ireland. as we have one of the highest rates of boozing the in the world.

Alcohol causes violence as in...

1. some guy gets too drunk, he has personal issues, (maybe wife has left him), drink gets in, he gets all angry, some normal guy leans over him to order a pint at the bar. drunk, angry guy gets annoyed, and you have potential for trouble. (ok this is just a random example, but I think it gets idea across).

2. Other problem, some drunk macho guy, starts giving you dirty looks when your out having, a few beers. maybe he goes "all right bud, you looking at something " in an aggressive tone, and because you have the booze in too, you tell him to go F>.K himself. and this esclates into violence.

I used to be a very heavy drinker on the weekends, which leads you to frequenting unsavioury bad, late night places, where boozed up unsavioury types frequent. this is not to mention, the amount of people who are whacked out of it on cocaine, which mixed with booze, make some people parnoid in an aggressive fashion. frequent this places, lead me to having to defend myself in quite a few time for real.

If you live this lifestyle, you got a good chance of getting into trouble and fights.

now I rarely drink, so I do not frequent these sort of places, so the chances of me getting into fights, has decreased 100% s.

Alcohol is a major cause of trouble. either for people who start it.... or for people when drink is in, choose not to walk away, and make an ego based decision, and strick around to fight it out (something i would have done in my past).

so away from the booze, I live a much "healthier" life.

however avoid booze, and bad pubs... may not stop acts of violence.... say the late night call centre worker, who is waiting for the bus, and gets her bag robbed and a few slaps off a drug addicted pretty criminal. Or that pakistani rapest who was jailed last year, he would get the bus to dublin, follow women , burst into their home, and rape them at night point.

Thats a different thing, and if people are scared this, they should take courses in awarness. avoidence, and ultimate physical defence skills.

Its a strange debate, though.... younger people like to drink and party, so ok, you might have got in a few scraps along the way, but then all the partying and fun!!!! or do you dig a bumker in your garden and hide in it to avoid potential trouble!!! LOL!!!

paxo

Or as Homer J Simpson put it " beer the solution to and the cause of all of lifes problems "

Baggio...

paxo wrote:

In my experience most people do not realise that they are in trouble untill it is to late to avoid it.
Paxo

Absolutely... This is often the case it just comes out of nowhere.

My awareness skills have got better over the years. I feel like I have a very good chance of seeing trouble before it starts (but nothing is 100% guaranteed).

While I'm pretty good at avoiding **** - my mates don't seem to be. There are a number of variables you have to take into consideration. So if you are unlucky enough to be involved in a street brawl it's handy to have a few skills (if you can't avoid or escape the situation).

Bagg.

paxo

Baggio... wrote:

Absolutely... This is often the case it just comes out of nowhere.

My awareness skills have got better over the years. I feel like I have a very good chance of seeing trouble before it starts (but nothing is 100% guaranteed).

While I'm pretty good at avoiding **** - my mates don't seem to be. There are a number of variables you have to take into consideration. So if you are unlucky enough to be involved in a street brawl it's handy to have a few skills (if you can't avoid or escape the situation).

Bagg.

Like Baggio I have also improved my awareness skills over the years. And where possible I will avoid it. I liken it to defensive driving, its better to anticipate and slow down that to have to slam on the brakes at the last moment. But nothing is certain in life and you can find yourself in a situation that is threatening or potentially dangerous. Should this occur it is important to think of survival instead of winning.

originall posted by millionaire

I think alot of trouble is caused my alcohol, especially in ireland. as we have one of the highest rates of boozing the in the world

..
Absolutely, alcohol is a major contributor to many street brawls. You only have to work in the hospitality industry in any capacity to be aware of the influence that alcohol can have on seemingly normal people. You are probably more at risk from your average jo schmo with 8 pints on board than from your average street crim looking to score.
Paxo

Baggio...

paxo wrote:

Absolutely, alcohol is a major contributor to many street brawls. You only have to work in the hospitality industry in any capacity to be aware of the influence that alcohol can have on seemingly normal people. You are probably more at risk from your average jo schmo with 8 pints on board than from your average street crim looking to score.
Paxo

Very True...
Alcohol is so weird... It can turn the average male into a Tasmanian Devil.:)

Millionaire

Yes, and to add to the theme...

Did you ever wonder why Friday and Saturday night are the most busy nights in Accident and Emergency units in hospitals around ireland.

One night i had to go to James hospital and I was amazed at the number of big massive burly bouncer type security guards they had working there in the A & E Unit.

paxo

Baggio... wrote:

Very True...
Alcohol is so weird... It can turn the average male into a Tasmanian Devil.:)

Yeah, some blokes think that they are 10 foot tall and bullet proof, others are the life and soul of the party. Problem with the former is not that the grog improves their fighting ability, its that it desensetises them to pain. Therefore they are unresponsive to non strikeing techniques and its a complete waste of breath trying to defuse them
Paxo

Killme00

Hi,

I have found that sometimes trouble is unaviodable so it is better to be prepared to deal with these situations when the arise. Sometimes there is nothing you can do to avoid confronation ( Please dont take me up wrong 99% of the time you can)...i recommend doing what you have to!

Saying that i think the situation we have in Ireland is different to many other countries. I lived in edinburgh for five years and travelled throughout the world and have never seen the amount of scum in one place that we have here in Ireland ( Dublin in particular)

I am not saying that we should live in fear, just be more aware of our surrounding

Millionaire

Killme00 wrote:

I lived in edinburgh for five years and travelled throughout the world and have never seen the amount of scum in one place that we have here in Ireland ( Dublin in particular)

I am not saying that we should live in fear, just be more aware of our surrounding

yes, i observed a higher level of scum here, than in other countrires.