Grant Question

Lister1

Not sure where the best place to post but this forum probably fits best...


My girlfriend who lives with myself is filling in her grant application form which asks for parents details(pps no., income etc.).

As she isn't being supported by them is it necessary for her to include this on the form?

Should she just put n/a for this area? It would leave her form looking fairly bare/blank...

whassupp2

I would leave it blank and explain the situation on the pages near the back which are for any additional information relating to your application.

Lister1

What are other peoples view on this? Is whassupp2 suggestion the way to go? Also would I have to supply proof that she is living here? All her post is directed to her fathers home so this might be a problem...

stepbar

what age is your g/f? can she prove that she has another income? I take you are supporting her so that maybe enough but you will have to explain the circumstances to the officer who deals with the application cause this these circumstances dont come up often. Good luck.

Sofaspud

My sister lived in Carlow when she was in college, and it still depended on the parents income. She said, regardless of the situation, it always depends on the parents income. Her friend never contacted his parents, but still wasn't eligible for a grant because of his parents' income.

The manner in which you apply is through different categories is as follows...

(i) You are 'Mature Independent' (i.e. over 23, independent of your parents/guardians)
(ii) You are 'Mature Dependent' (i.e. over 23, dependent on your parents/guardians)
(iii) Other.

This means that even if you are living away from your family and have been supporting yourself for your entire life, you will still be judged on your parents income, and will be in the 'Other' category. So unless she was over 23 when entering third level, she will be judged on her parents income (as well as her own).

It is one of the stupidest part of the grant system, imo, along with calling those (allegedly) dependent on income 'children'. If you put n/a down, then your form would be sent back to you as incomplete, which could delay your grant application.

Sorry.

Lister1

Not good news so.

She's 21 and has been living away from her parents for just over a year. Still in contact etc. but living independently. She gets a back to education allowance and doesnt receive any financial support from her parents. Staying with myself rent free so I was hoping she would qualify for a grant and put something towards her keep.

She was advised by the local partnership office to put n/a for her parents details but I thought this was wrong advice.

It'll be either the City/Council Council or the VEC that she will be handing in the form to, so while others (myself included) may give advice, in the end they will be administrating the grant so she should talk to them on the phone on Monday (earlier the better, as the deadline is Thursday, though they may accept the form after that.)

I've thrown together some links 'n' stuff here which she might need.

Lister1

Thanks very much for the links. Looks like there us a lot of usefull information there. I'll look into them tomorrow.

lonnbeimnech

As a 21 year old last year I ran into similar problems applying for The PLC Maintenance Grant when I was told I must be over 23. I was in a position where for whatever reason, I was unable to give details on the particulars of my parents income information so I explained to the VEC Grant Dept that I lived alone and was more or less estranged from my parents hoping that maybe this would be enough.

The VEC instructed me that I needed documentation to back this up to avail of the scheme so I contacted my solicitor, college, doctor and healthboard and had letters explaining my position sent out to me which I forwared onto the VLC in Ballsbridge.

For the VEC this was still not good so in an urgent attempt to get myself on the €3,500 I went to the member of An Dáil, Mr.Bertie Ahern, representing my locality. He sent letters to the chairman of the VLC to no end.

It the end the VEC made clear that they would only accept documentation for proof of estrangement from a Guard which I could not get.

Can your girlfriend provide information about her parents income or is she opting to say she has no connection with them because you believe that their income will be over that which would allow her to avail of such a scheme?

I have someone looking into a possible way around this problem for me but she's still working on it and should have some information for me next week when I will gladly make her findings known on this very thread and I should be very much obliged if you or anyone else has progress getting around not being 23 and therefore assessed upon their parents income they would let it be known to us all.

Lister1

I dont know if her parents income would push her over the limit but its a possibility. She receives no financial supoport from them which is the reason why I dont believe it fair that she be judged on it. Also she was also having a bit of trouble getting the information from them. She currently lives on her back to education allowance(a form of dole) with me providing her keep.

I think I'll get her to go down to the partnership place on Monday with her form to discuss with the education officer there what her options are. I was thinking possilbly a letter from himself would get round the problem as I'm sure his name would be known by the people judging the grants.

lonnbeimnech

I'm familiar with the back to education scheme as I myself am on VTOS which basically means I get paid €200 per week for studying and and extra €100 towards my rent which is pretty good considering I'm a full time student

Regarding her parents not supporting her this will not matter. No matter what you say to them if you're under 23 you're judge by your parents.

You mentioned the partnership, would this by any chance be the Finglas Cabra Partnership covering those areas and the surrounding areas?

Lister1

No not the Finglas Partnership, its the Drogheda one. Small town so I'm hoping a letter from him will ring bells with the people who approve.

I'm amazed how archaic the grant system is. It seems to be judged on factors that were in existence 15+yrs ago. Times change and its common for 'children' under 23 to be living away from there parents these days and supporting themselves. Students in this situation should be the ones who need the support much more then students still living at home.

CASEsensitive

Sorry for the length of the post in advance. Speaking as a twenty six year old postgraduate student, who had lived and worked away from home for eight years with evidence of financial independence, I have run into this problem of applying as a mature candidate before. I wrote to the student support unit, (you can email them, therese_conlon@education.ie) and asked them a couple of questions, which took them nine months to reply to, after intervention from the ombudsman. The questions I asked were

1. Has the department of Education enacted legislation defining a ‘dependant candidate’?
2. How many full-time postgraduate students are funded by the Department of Education?
3. What is the number of full-time dependant postgraduate students (i.e. that are under twenty three on the 1st of January at the year of entry) funded by the Department of Education?
4. What is the number of mature full-time postgraduate students that are funded by the Department of Education?
5. What is the number of mature dependant full-time postgraduate students that are funded by the Department of Education?
6. What is the number of students that enter into a postgraduate course following on from their degree course and their break down into mature, dependant mature and dependant?
7. What is the number of full-time dependant postgraduate students that qualify for the disadvantaged student top-up?
8. How many students re-enter a postgraduate degree course annually?
9. How much support (monetary or otherwise) should my guardian provide me with?
10. What should I do if my guardian refuses to support me?
11. Is there a scheme that exists for students whose guardians refuse to support them?
12. If I am currently assessed as a dependant for the purpose of my grant application, why does my guardians social welfare benefit (i.e. children’s allowance, disability allowance) not reflect this?
13. If your grant is renewable annually, why is your status not?

Even after nine months most of the questions remained unanswered, as the department of education collects but does seem to collate information on the breakdown of students receiving a third level grant. I was told various different things in regard to been estranged from ones parent (like, one had to have a psychologists report to show that you had attended counselling (rather stupid as an adult)) but received nothing in writing. If one looks at the rest of the legislation on the Irish statute book they all say a child can only be dependent up until the age of 21.

It would seem the best way of getting this legislation changed is not only to contact the student support unit but also the ombudsman, who although has no statutory power they do make recommendations and publish complaints of this nature.

lonnbeimnech

Your story indeed sounds eerily familiar. You mentioned them wanting you to provide documentation from social workers etc - it was the same for me but they told me I could also bring something from the guards who were there when I was "estranged". Considering that the guards are ever only involved when you're put out of your home legally still a child, which I would remind you is below the age of 18 contrary to what the VEC would have us believe, I once again agree that this, along with the issue of 23 being the age whereby a grown individual is declared no longer an adult (it's my party and I'll cry if I want to, cry if I want to), is a load of baloney. I think that the lady I mentioned earlier from The Finglas Cabra partnership who is making enquiries on behalf of someone in a similar situation and myself may in fact be looking into the disadvantaged student top-up, the scheme which your post has reminded the name of.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know this scheme is only to cover people going to university but if you qualify you will receive the total of the grant you originally applied for which in my case I believe is in and around the grand sum of €3,500 which would make a very substantial difference to my life this coming student year.

Unfortunately although I do plan to go on to a degree at university at the moment I am a PLC student but I may be eligible as a disadvantaged student if I can prove that my college has links with universities which I think it does. Although though the OP didn't clearly specify the level his girlfriend is studying at I gather it's university. In either case be sure to bring it up when you speak to them The Drogheda Partnership.

Lister1

Girlfirend is currently studying in a PLC(going into her 2nd year). The course she is studing would allow her to go on to study in a university. I'll let you know how she gets on when she speaks to the partnership people tomorrow.