Accounts for Limited company

Black_Couch

After setting up a limited company, what accounts should a limited company keep? Thanks

ircoha

Black_Couch wrote:

After setting up a limited company, what accounts should a limited company keep? Thanks

send an email to the CRO www.cro.ie and they will send u a pdf with their requirements.
www.revenue.ie also have stuff on what they require.

u should sign up for ROS with the revenue as the system has a set of accounts you fill in.

assuming u are below the threshold for audited accounts it is pretty simple.

Have u accounting software yet?

Black_Couch

Thanks for the reply. I'm kind of rethinking setting up the company. I need to set up a ltd because I want to split the shares 50-50 with another partner.

The company will be web-based, sellling items on the site. I'm just debating whether I need to register the business. Anyone experience of this or advice on it, all posts welcome!

kluivert

You could have registered the company as a business (Sole Trader).

Anyway:

CRO Require the following:

Six months after registering will are required to will in a B1 form. No Abridged Accounts required. Fee 40e.

After that:

1. Abridged Accounts before 9 months after the year end, but not mroe 5 days before your ARD date
2. B1 form before 9 months after the year end, but not mroe 5 days before your ARD date
3. A cheque for 40e.

Black_Couch

http://www.domainregistry.ie/ListResellers.php - very interesting to note the difference in prices for domain registration. Got a brilliant hosting site thats real cheap. But domains range from €29 to €127 with no difference both are for .ie and both are for one year. I didn't realise there was so much effort in setting up a company. The websites i've found have been terrible at giving clear advice and information.

Just trying to figure a loophole through this. The memorandum of association - (Or it could be articles of association) the rules of what the company is allowed do, can this be changed? I know its illegal to trade outside of them but can they be changed in any way?

By the way kluivert if I register the business as a sole trader I have unlimited liability plus the shares wouldn't be split since there are none in this type of business. And what is ARD? is it accounts returns date? Thanks for all the help.

ivorystraws

The IE Domain Registry Website (www.iedr.ie) is also helpful when determining the best priced .ie domain name provider. Did you source a .ie domain name vendor without the hosting package? Hosting is dirt cheap but it's difficult to find a vendor who'll sell .ie domain names (only - without a hosting package).

Why are you trying to find a loophole? Are you incorporating the company yourself?

The ARD is a company's Annual Return Date.

ircoha

Black_Couch wrote:

....
Just trying to figure a loophole through this. what loophole are you afterThe memorandum of association - (Or it could be articles of association) the rules of what the company is allowed do, can this be changed? I know its illegal to trade outside of them but can they be changed in any way?yes they can be changed at any time but there is a process and the new ones must be filed with the CRO. If u change them and dont file, then any stuff u do will be "Ultra Vires" and if u come unstuck u lose the benefit of the corporate shield and if they come after u they wont use KYI or vaso:) Other than that u will be fine..

As well as the CRO look at www.odce.ie which deals with errant directors

Black_Couch

The loophole I'm looking for is to not register the company as a ltd. So I won't have to hire solicitor/account. The site will have to go through a bit of a testing phase and I want to make sure the idea will work before putting money into starting a company afterall I'm a student The registration policy seems to state that you have to be a company to have a website.

Ok I didn't realise that when I was looking for domain prices. So the cheaper prices I had been looking at meant I had to let them host the site as well. Didn't see that when I was looking. When I saw prices for domain registration I presumed thats just what it was and no strings attached about hosting with the same company.

I just want to be able to legally run this site however that is possible. Also want to make sure the revenue is split 50-50 and thats in a legal contract.

ircoha

Re
The registration policy seems to state that you have to be a company to have a website.

not for a .com
yes for a .ie

Black_Couch

yeah i see that now. I think Cloud or the other guy who started boards had to change the name of their company for one day to set up boards.ie its on their wiki page afaik.


I don't know how to get round this. The domain we need is taken as a .com unfortunately. I wonder how strict they are about enforcing the "you have to be a company to have a .ie domain" rule?

ircoha

AFAIK the ISP has to have it verified with the CRO before they set up the dot ie..

fintan

You dont have to be a company to register a .ie

You can register a business name (RBN) with the cro costs about €20 euros if you do it on-line.

You will be considered a sole trader and can then get your .ie

I do it all the time with no hassle.

Black_Couch

fintan wrote:

You dont have to be a company to register a .ie

You can register a business name (RBN) with the cro costs about €20 euros if you do it on-line.

You will be considered a sole trader and can then get your .ie

I do it all the time with no hassle.

Really? Thats interesting but then again it'll be registered as a sole trader and there'll be no legal contract for splitting profits. Could this be done seperately? Thanks for all the replies.

ircoha

Black_Couch wrote:

Really? Thats interesting but then again it'll be registered as a sole trader and there'll be no legal contract for splitting profits. Could this be done seperately? Thanks for all the replies.

of course, you just draw up a partnership agreement as to the split and then agree a definition of profit. This is not an easy thing to do, you may laugh but it is not. Just remember if it flies floats or fcuks, rent it, dont buy it, much easier accounting:)

Black_Couch

ircoha wrote:

of course, you just draw up a partnership agreement as to the split and then agree a definition of profit. This is not an easy thing to do, you may laugh but it is not. Just remember if it flies floats or fcuks, rent it, dont buy it, much easier accounting:)

good advice there!

Would we require a solicitor to come up with the partnership agreement
or is it something we could come up with ourselves?

ircoha

It depends on the relationship ye have.

The prob is that u will need 2 lawyers to do it right, which at this point is a complete waste of money. I am a member of another forum and I will try snafu one there for you

IMO, unless there is trust between the partners, even the best paperwork will not work as it can be circumvented/ mis-interpreted etc.

I would argue that its major benefit is, that in the event of the untimely demise of either party, it shows what you had in mind.

However, do put something in place, even if it only a few lines.

ircoha

This was my question I posted

>>> We are two students setting up a new business. Does anyone on the
list have some sort of pro forma partnership agreement
we could customise for our needs?

3 comments/answers/suggestions

---

Pro forma agreements and the law are
not a good idea.

---

Check with your local enterprise board and see if they will help you with
the cost of a legal advisor - quite often they offer this through
"mentoring" at a fraction and I mean fraction of the real cost.

---

I have to agree. You can't really use a pro forma for something like this.
I'd recommend you also talk to your local chamber of commerce as they may be
able to give you practical advice.

However, before drafting an agreement, you should distill down exactly what
you are each agreeing to with the other. If it does require help from a
business lawyer, that will make the job a lot quicker.

---

Black_Couch

ircoha wrote:

This was my question I posted

>>> We are two students setting up a new business. Does anyone on the
list have some sort of pro forma partnership agreement
we could customise for our needs?

3 comments/answers/suggestions

---

Pro forma agreements and the law are
not a good idea.

---

Check with your local enterprise board and see if they will help you with
the cost of a legal advisor - quite often they offer this through
"mentoring" at a fraction and I mean fraction of the real cost.

---

I have to agree. You can't really use a pro forma for something like this.
I'd recommend you also talk to your local chamber of commerce as they may be
able to give you practical advice.

However, before drafting an agreement, you should distill down exactly what
you are each agreeing to with the other. If it does require help from a
business lawyer, that will make the job a lot quicker.

---

Thanks a million for that your posts have been really helpful. I think the best option would be using one of the following:

www.registeracompany.ie €175
www.companysetup.ie €292.85
www.businesscompanyformations.ie €295
www.companyformations.ie €380.95

They all seem to offer the same thing. The first site is based in England, which is a little off putting. I don't why theres such a difference though in price. They all offer to register the company and supply the neccessary legal documents etc.

fintan

I would recommend companysetup.ie they were extremely helpful and did a great job for me.

bigred

I used businesscompanyformations.ie - no problems at all - got the full pack with seal, minutes, first AR for about €500 - saved me a heap of hassle - they were very good

faceman

Sorry didnt read all posts in full but i would recommend setting up as a partnership for at least 12 months and when you're business starts to grow then register as a limited company.

MajorFrazer

If one does set up a limited company, how does one go about extracting the profits from it?

Black_Couch

MajorFrazer wrote:

If one does set up a limited company, how does one go about extracting the profits from it?

come on seriously? You either produce a good or supply a service and charge money for doing so. When your costs to produce the good or supply the service is less than the money you receive for doing so you make a profit. Then maximising this profit involves cutting down your costs or increasing your revenue!!!

Anyway back on my topic of setting up the company I wrote seperate emails to the 4 sites I mentioned earlier. Heres the feedback:

www.companysetup.ie

I'm about to set up my own LTD company here in Ireland. I see its €292.85 to set up a company using your website but what I want to know is why should I choose your site instead of www.registeracompany.ie ?

I can't really see much of a difference between the two services you are offering. I'd be delighted if you could get back to me soon.

Many thanks for your company formation enquiry. I have just had a look at registeracompany.ie to see what type of service they offer, and it differs in parts to what we do here. I see that their price package for electronically doing up the paperwork is E75, but the also on top of that you have the Companies Office filing fee of E100, so the price already is E175. I also see that the do not provide you with a company seal (which will cost you approx Forty Euro) which brings the price up to E205.

We charge E252 +Vat and the only thing you need to do is to fill out the attached order form. Not only do we prepare all documentation for you, we send it to you indicating exactly who needs to sign where, as a common mistake when filing documents in the Companies Office, is that signatures are often missing. The Companies Office latest report revealed that approx 65% of new company applications were returned to individuals filing on their own behalf, due to certain mistakes. Once your mistakes are amended, your company will take another 2-3 weeks in the queue to be processed. As we are very familiar with the documentation, we would very rarely have any paperwork returned from the companies office.

Also we actually do the filing in the Companies Office for you, which will save you the time and effort of going to the Companies Office in Dublin to file same. One thing to remember as well, is that because we are a registered agent, we can have your company set up in five working days from receipt of signed paperwork. If you were to file the documents yourself (i.e. not through a registered agent), the process takes approximately between 2-3 weeks to register your company.

Our price of E252+Vat (E292.85) includes the following:

(a) All document Preparation
(b) A1 & Memorandum & Articles of Association
(c) Filing Fee's to the Companies Office
(d) Certificate of Incorporation
(e) Hand Held Company Seal
(f) A Complete Hard back Company Register
(g) Share Certificates
(h) Bound Copies of the Memorandum & Articles of Association

I will also send you through another email with some information on setting up a limited company with CompanySetup.ie.

If you have any additional queries, please let me know.

next i emailed businesscompanyformations.ie

"I'm about to set up my own LTD company but I have found your prices are substantially higher than your competitors such as www.registeracompany.ie and www.companysetup.ie If you could give me an indication as to why the prices are so significantly different, I'd really appreciate it."

Our Answer is:

Business & Company Formations are one of Ireland longest established and active company registration agencies,company secretaries and legal services providers. We are used by and have provided legal services to the business community,accounting,legal professions and government departments since 1995.

Being one of the largest agencies in the country we generally do not comment on the pricing levels and experience of entities appearing on the web form time to time. However as you have specifically identified two such entities to us we are pleased to make the following observations on material published by them in the public domain.

www.registeracompany.ie. this is not a company registration agency, but is a New Zealand web based and administered form filling operation which first appeared on the web promoting Irish company registration services in July of this year ! The operation to our knowledge does not provide any professional company secretarial and or legal services of any description and does not appear to have any legal services staff in Ireland. Your documents may be ready in 5 minutes (as they claim) but your company certainly will not be. This operation is simply an online form filling service for which you pay €75 for the privilege of completing a form online! If you feel you need to avail of this type of form filling why not go directly to the Companies registration Office site at www.cro.ie

Business & Company Formations provide a full legal incorporation,company name conflict checking, administration & support service at the CRO. We are physically located in Dublin, staffed by "live people" and are not simply a presence on the world wide web.

www.companysetup.ie advertise a" Guaranteed Express Service €252 Reliable Qualified Professionals" (source; Google sponsored link 15th Sept. 2006) We understand that the price quoted by this company in this sponsored link may not be inclusive of VAT - you may also wish to note that their website as at todays' date details 3 company formation packages available as follows;

Express Service € 252 + VAT (€292.85)

Superflash Service € 292 + VAT (€341.25)

Ready Made Company € 399 + VAT (€470.72)

Business & Company Formations Limited quote all company package prices inclusive of VAT. We do not advertise company package costs exclusive of VAT or use "from" prices. Our pricing schedule when examined is actually more competitive than the above when you consider that we offer company formation package that no only includes an incorporation service, company registers and company seal but also provides for the filing of your new company's First Annual Return all for a fee of €495 inclusive of annual return filing fees, all charges and VAT. Our general package price range is between €295 -€495 inclusive of all charges and VAT.

Finally we cannot obviously comment on the methods of incorporation used by any firm other that our own but it is worth noting that we draft all documentation in accordance with established legal practice, specifically drafting documentation for the company being formed. An improperly drafted Memorandum & Article of Association may lead to potential problems for your new company at a later date.

We do not use "nominee directors and or nominee shareholders" in the incorporation of our companies. In this regard you might like to note the following:

ALL BCF Companies are "Clean Companies"

"What does this mean?

BCF do not use nominee directors or nominee shareholders when incorporating your new company.

All of the legal documents for your newly formed company will identify only the appointment of your own nominated persons as first directors and shareholders.

This means no other director or shareholder other than the ones you appoint will appear on the records at the Companies Registration Office.

Other agents may form companies using agent director (s) and shareholders (i.e." agent nominees") then resign and transfer the shares to yourselves as directors/shareholders. e.g. Ready-Made Companies

The presence of these "agent nominee" directors and shareholders leads to confusion and delay when opening company bank accounts, merchants accounts, processing credit applications, carrying out credit checks or entering into leasing arrangements etc.

Anyone carrying out a company search on your company where such "agent nominees" are used will find the first directors and shareholders were not yourselves but the "agent nominees".

In such cases, further proof will then be requested from you, that you are in fact the company directors and shareholders of the company and that the shareholding you say you own, has in fact been transferred to you in the correct manner.

---

We thank you for your comments. Ultimately it is your prerogative as to where you place your company formation business.

We look forward to being of further assistance to you.

next i emailed companybureau.ie more or less along the same lines of what i said to the others
I'm about to set up my own LTD company here in Ireland. I see on your site that offer this service for €380.30.
But why is there such a differnence between your price and your competitiors? ( www.businesscompanyformations.ie www.registeracompany.ie www.companysetup.ie )
All of the aforementioned sites offer the exact same service at a much lower rate. I'd appreciate some feedback as to why there is such a difference.

Many thanks for your e-mail. Our price is more expensive because firstly we are the fastest formation agent in the country. We guarantee we’ll have your company set up in 5 working days. The package we send is far more comprehensive than the competitors you mentioned. We are also one of Ireland’s longest established company formation agents with qualified professionals. Our service is excellent, which is why most Solicitors and Accountants prefer to do business with us. The companies you have mentioned are cheap (one of them doesn’t even make the application for you) but we are certainly not the most expensive – Some companies charge EUR450.00 for a company formation.



If you would like me to check the availability of company name, please do not hesitate to contact me direct.



Best of luck with the venture.

And www.registeracompany.ie never got back to me.

MajorFrazer

Put simpler, which bits do I get nobbled with corporation tax on and which bits do I end up paying income tax on?

faceman

MajorFrazer wrote:

Put simpler, which bits do I get nobbled with corporation tax on and which bits do I end up paying income tax on?

Whatever you deem as salary or bonus from your profits is taxed as income tax. Non salary profits are taxed as corporate. But remember you only pay corporate tax on your profits.

jpogorman

fintan wrote:

You dont have to be a company to register a .ie

You can register a business name (RBN) with the cro costs about €20 euros if you do it on-line.

You will be considered a sole trader and can then get your .ie

I do it all the time with no hassle.

If I registered a general business name; can I then register a more specific domain address? e.g. business name of xyz but I want to register a domain name of aaa.ie

failsafe

jpogorman wrote:

If I registered a general business name; can I then register a more specific domain address? e.g. business name of xyz but I want to register a domain name of aaa.ie

If www.domainregistry.ie deem your company name to be closely linked or related then they'll allow it. I think you can attatch an explanatory note to the application. They said the if your business name is something like "Jim's farm animals" and you want to register www.sheepandcows.ie it should be fine.

Personally I'd reccomend that path for black_couch. It involves a minimum investment (€20) and then if the site starts making money you and your partner can invest in a decent solicoter/accountant to formalise things.

Black_Couch

failsafe wrote:

If www.domainregistry.ie deem your company name to be closely linked or related then they'll allow it. I think you can attatch an explanatory note to the application. They said the if your business name is something like "Jim's farm animals" and you want to register www.sheepandcows.ie it should be fine.

Personally I'd reccomend that path for black_couch. It involves a minimum investment (€20) and then if the site starts making money you and your partner can invest in a decent solicoter/accountant to formalise things.

appreciate the advice.

chris_RAC

I came across this thread and would like to share some comments surrounding www.registeracompany.ie. I am a Director of the company that runs this website (Register a Company Limited). The site was setup to provide a different means of registering an Irish company. The only two ways at present are to do it yourself and prepare all the legal documentation which can be time consuming and confusing, or to use a company formation agent who takes care of the whole process for you for a fee (often over E250).

We launched this site so that you can register the company yourself and get all the necessary legal documents but without having to pay high prices of a company formation agent. Our site produces your Form A1, Memorandum of Association, Articles of Association, Consents, Registers and Board minutes all within 5 minutes and with no middle-men involved.

We take exception to being labelled a "form filling service" by our competitor. We're using advanced technology to check the information you supply us to make sure it's all legally ok with the CRO and we also do live online name checking with the CRO during the process. Our Articles & Memorandum have been created and approved by a leading law firm in Dublin and are formatted with your specific company details (company name, NACE code etc).

We think this is a great exciting new service empowering people to take care of the process themselves and save some money when registering their companies.

I apologise Black Couch - don't recall seeing your email to me but if you send again I would be happy to answer.