Burglaries Targeting Pistols

triskell

Sparks civdef any thoughts on this? i was chatting to a guard this morning this guy shoots but would not be progun. he reckons that a lot of burlars are targeting house with pistols. any stats on this? is this more of garda spin to discourage pistol purchase. how could they get this kind of information? i have always refused to put full name and address on club log sheets when visiting as a guest anyone can read it even my own club asks for name and type of firearm. i dont like this to much info out there to be read. maybe just a membership no and firearm type would be better

Riggser

dfaf wrote:

Sparks civdef any thoughts on this?

Because everyone else's opinion doesn't count?

dfaf wrote:

i was chatting to a guard this morning this guy shoots but would not be progun.

He's a shooter but not pro-gun?

dfaf wrote:

he reckons that a lot of burlars are targeting house with pistols. any stats on this? is this more of garda spin to discourage pistol purchase. how could they get this kind of information?

Not Garda spin, Garda sh1t talk.

I think there isn't a campaign by filth out there to rob people of their firearms. If a shooters security is up to scratch the robber(s) won't be arsed when they can get an illegal firearm for next to nothing. If there was such a wave of thefts regarding firearms of any kind it would be in all the papers and on the news.

triskell

Riggser wrote:

Because everyone else's opinion doesn't count?



He's a shooter but not pro-gun?



Not Garda spin, Garda sh1t talk.

I think there isn't a campaign by filth out there to rob people of their firearms. If a shooters security is up to scratch the robber(s) won't be arsed when they can get an illegal firearm for next to nothing. If there was such a wave of thefts regarding firearms of any kind it would be in all the papers and on the news.

sparks and civdef appear to have access to a wider source of info than most shooters

Don't forget Rew!!

Rew

LOL, thx for sticking up for me Psycho I agree with Riggser though, the mods dont have any better sources that the rest of the users.

I haven't heard anything to this effect. The way i see it is would you break in to somones house and steal a pistol when you can get one on the blackmarket for a few hundred euro?

If you break in you risk being caught for a start. Yopu have to identifty a house with a pistol in it. The pistol owner could be sleeping with it under his pillow so you risk being shot (lets face it if he own the pistol he's going to be a half decent shot as well). You going to have to get in to the safe whcih means your probably going to have to have some contact with the owner to get the keys, which is more risk. You almost garunteed the house is alarmed with a monitored alarm and that the gardí/alarm company are aware of the firearm in the house.

All in all a very risky game for any criminal to be playing for somthing they can buy buy on the black market.

conce452

A monitored alarm is not a requirement to own a pistol. Although some garda ia some areas enforce this. I have never a garda in my house, for all they know I have no safe and no alarm. I have sevral firearms and they have never ever made any enquiries as to what security I have in place (it is extensive). I know many other shooters like me that have "very desirable" firearms.

Monitored alarms are not all that they are cracked up to be, I wont go into it but I have got around 2 certified monitored alarms in the past (as part of my job and no Im not a thief!". No technical skill was required! I could do this because the alarms were pooly installed as most house alarms in Ireland are.

"Police approved" safes only need to be 2mm thick. This will not afford much protection. If the safe is fixed to a wall in a timber frame house it will only be fixed to wood unless it is fixed to the chimney brest. If they can not get into the safe often they just remove it completely.

Oh by the way I am a keen shooter and not anti gun.
Most outside teak or UPVC doors in new builds in this country are the same type with a 5 point locking system. The barrells protrude on the outside which makes them vunerable to attact. An aftermarket barrel that finishes flush is available now because this problem has been so extensive.

So dont kid yourself, your firearms might not be as safe as you think.

The fact that you might get caught breaking in will not bother most thieves. If they are caught what will happen to them?? Mostly not alot. Many of them might not even be aware that a firearm is in the house until they get in.

I konow for a fact that 2 firearms have been stolen from houses in a village local to me in one week and nothing was mentioned about it in the media.

Sparks

dfaf wrote:

sparks and civdef appear to have access to a wider source of info than most shooters

Can't speak for Civdef, but I don't have any special kind of access to information. (Well, not outside of club stuff anyways). Did once, but not at the moment. I just read lots of it regularly, and occasionally talk to people involved if something doesn't make sense. Most of the information is either public domain or requestable through the FOI act, or just plain ask-and-ye-shall-receive stuff. And I do get a bit of gossip sent my way by various people as well, which is always welcome to give a bit of detail to the picture!

As to the question, there might well be a concerted, organised programme out there with a dedicated team of burglars going after licenced pistol shooters for their pistols; but the Gardai wouldn't know about it because they don't collect statistics on whether or not firearms used in crimes were stolen from legitimate owners. We asked parlimentary questions on that point to the Minister:

617. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, further to Questions Nos. 796 of 26 January 2005 and 240 of 23 March 2005, if the pistols and revolvers stolen in 2002, 2003 and 2004 were legally held by the Garda or the Defence Forces at the time they were stolen as no private person during these years could legally hold such firearms; the number of other stolen firearms in 2002, 2003 and 2004 which were legally held by members of the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22697/05]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): According to the Garda authorities the category of “pistol-revolver” on the crime recording system is broad and captures different types of pistols and revolvers including starting pistols, air pistols, antique pistols and flare pistols. Starting pistols, antique pistols and flare pistols do not require a firearm certificate for possession, use or carriage. Where an air pistol falls under the definition of a firearm contained in the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2000 a firearm certificate is required for possession, use or carriage.

With regard to the figures relating to pistols the six pistols-revolvers stolen in 2002 refer to starting pistols, flare pistols and air pistols. There were two antique revolvers stolen in 2002 and both had the barrel bored and the hammer filed down to render them incapable of firing. The 17 pistols-revolvers stolen in 2003 refer to air pistols, starting pistols and starting revolvers. There was one revolver stolen in 2003 which had been rendered incapable of firing. The pistols-revolvers stolen in 2004 were two air pistols.

The Garda authorities inform me that the information in relation to firearms stolen in 2002, 2003 and 2004, which are legally held by members of the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces, is not readily available but is currently being compiled and will be forwarded to the Deputy in due course.

There were other questions on this in the parlimentary questions thread and in one, the answer was that they didn't keep track of that kind of information and it would be too hard for them to do so...



That said, I'd still lock my door at night, y'know...

Sparks

conce452 wrote:

A monitored alarm is not a requirement to own a pistol.

...for the next four to eight weeks.
After which, "secure storage" is a mandatory legal prerequisite of the licence and the Commissioner or Minister will define "secure storage" at their whim.

So dont kid yourself, your firearms might not be as safe as you think.

True, but the point of the gun safe for me is not to protect against burglary, but to protect against someone else thinking that the firearm looks like a wonderful toy and trying to play with it with a painful if not tragic end result.

I konow for a fact that 2 firearms have been stolen from houses in a village local to me in one week and nothing was mentioned about it in the media.

It's not that it doesn't happen; it's whether or not they're being targeted or whether they're just stolen opportunistically. If it's the former, forget about defending them. If it's the latter, well, a decent safe, well-mounted, will do wonders for deterrence. But then, so will locking your door at night.

conce452

Sparks wrote:

Couldn't do that here, my local station has no facilities to do this. I don't think many stations have either.


No, not wrong. And a very interesting topic as well, so I'm actually going to fork the thread at this point to start a new thread on that point.

None of the stations do any more. But Pat O'Brian will look after all your firearms for you while you are away and he is only a short drive from you. Very cheap also.

Sparks

True conce, but I leave my stuff in Wilkinstown when I have to as it's my normal range.

conce452

Sparks wrote:

...for the next four to eight weeks.
After which, "secure storage" is a mandatory legal prerequisite of the licence and the Commissioner or Minister will define "secure storage" at their whim.


True, but the point of the gun safe for me is not to protect against burglary, but to protect against someone else thinking that the firearm looks like a wonderful toy and trying to play with it with a painful if not tragic end result.


It's not that it doesn't happen; it's whether or not they're being targeted or whether they're just stolen opportunistically. If it's the former, forget about defending them. If it's the latter, well, a decent safe, well-mounted, will do wonders for deterrence. But then, so will locking your door at night.

I am all for gunsafes dont get me wrong. I am just saying that most of them are crap and will only slow a determined thief slightly.

This "secure storage" issue, come on do you think that in 4 weeks time Jonny O'Brian is going to check every firearms holder in your village this side of christmas? Like you (I imagine?) I know many farmers etc. with guns under the bed!

conce452

Sparks wrote:

True conce, but I leave my stuff in Wilkinstown when I have to as it's my normal range.

It is no harm to let the garda know when you are away on holiday and they will keep an extra eye on your house when you are away. They told me before that when I was away for any length of time to inform them at the local station. I always leave my firearms with a local RFD.

Sparks

conce452 wrote:

I am all for gunsafes dont get me wrong. I am just saying that most of them are crap and will only slow a determined thief slightly.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - just saying that most gunsafes are not designed to withstand the attentions of a determined thief because that particular beastie is thankfully very very rare indeed, despite what the tabloids would have you believe.

This "secure storage" issue, come on do you think that in 4 weeks time Jonny O'Brian is going to check every firearms holder in your village this side of christmas?

No, I think he's going to check every one of them before renewing their current licence or issuing a new one, and anyone not having one will be told they have to hand in the firearm until they pass whatever test is set up for them.

Like you (I imagine?) I know many farmers etc. with guns under the bed!

Yup. Thing is, there's a rule says you have to have secure storage, not one that says you have to use it. (Well, there's common sense, but that's so rare these days that you hardly think to mention it :rolleyes: )

conce452

I am a big fan of secure storage, but I dont believe that the garda have the man power or the interest in checking everyones security. They dont see it as a priority. I am not saying that this is right but that is the way it is

maglite

but be sure that our storage will be checked before jo soap as we (forum users)tend to have more than than the one firearm and would use considerabley more ammo than the local farmer

2 guns stolen not a word in the media..... tis common enough for 2 guns to go missing and not a word to the gardai

Sparks

I dont believe that the garda have the man power or the interest in checking everyones security.

I don't think so either, but the fact is that it's now the law and they'll have memo's coming down the pipe from the Commissioner's office about this to them so they'll have to get on with it.

I didn't say it'd be an exhaustive inspection, you understand, at least not for the first year.