'Older' 4x4's

Gatster

Just wondering which is best out of these, for all round use including some off-roading but enough space in the back for bikes/moving bulky stuff around (will do <3000k p/a). Preferably diesel, but whatever fuel something that would need the minimum spending on it to keep it running & reliable (not worried about mpg/ins/tax etc. but the lower the better!):

Land Rover Defender 110 200TDI - late 80's/early 90's
Range Rover Classic - early 90's
Land Rover Disco - early 90's
Toyota Land Cruiser - early 90's (the boxy one, not the VX)
Shogun - early 90's

Any other suggestions of this ilk welcome, even down to freelanders/shogun pinin etc.

Would buy in the UK as there is much better choice, max budget £3k (£4k at a push), but the cheaper the better

bazz26

Gatster wrote:

Just wondering which is best out of these, for all round use including some off-roading but enough space in the back for bikes/moving bulky stuff around (will do <3000k p/a). Preferably diesel, but whatever fuel something that would need the minimum spending on it to keep it running & reliable (not worried about mpg/ins/tax etc. but the lower the better!):

Land Rover Defender 110 200TDI - late 80's/early 90's
Range Rover Classic - early 90's
Land Rover Disco - early 90's
Toyota Land Cruiser - early 90's (the boxy one, not the VX)

Any other suggestions of this ilk welcome, even down to freelanders/CRV's etc.

Would buy in the UK as there is much better choice, max budget £3k (£4k at a push), but the cheaper the better

The early 1990s Isuzu Trooper and Mitsubishi Pajero/Shogun were pretty good machines.

Another one that was very rugged was the Daihatsu Fourtrak:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=482056

SGKM

If I was you I would only be looking at the pajero/shogun,ideally a 2.8 manual. They have a fantastic reputation for bullet proof reliability! I know a lot of people who have owned them over the years and were very happy with them! I have a '97 myself. If you buy a Long Wheel Base one in the uk and bring it in here as a commercial (which is what I presume you'll do if You're buying it to move stuff) you'll only have to pay 50 euro VRT.

A defender is a great off roader but wouldn't be very relible,fast or refined.
An early disco or range rover would be a reliability and rust nightmare.
An early landcruiser with the 2.4 engine is underpowered and very oldfashioned to drive but it should be reliable.

Go for the pajero,its the best of the early 90s 4x4s by a long shot,thats why they were/are so common in ireland and the uk.

fdisk

I owuldn't agree with the previous post. The Defender is extremely reliable - your problem would be that they are so sought after that you wouldn't get one for the money you are spending.
I wouldn't suggest a range rover as the electronics would be very expensive to repair in these.

I would suggest a Discovery. You should be able to get a 300TDI model, and they are bulletproof. I've had three of them and never a problem. They are easy to maintain yourself, and as the entire body is aluminium, there are no rust problems.

colm_mcm

I'd seek out a jap import Pajero 2800 TD.

stratos

Just on a note the Land Rover is the only one with a centre lockable diff as standard. All the others become one wheel drives in mud the landie is two wheel drive in the same place, as one wheel per axle will have drive.

The Landie can be got as a classic too with all the cheapness involved with that, and don't forget old range rovers. We have a number of newer landies where I work They get dogs abuse, they still work away we have had a few probs but only minor things. They are way better in the muck than any other 4 by 4 and we have a few different types.

peasant

stratos wrote:

Just on a note the Land Rover is the only one with a centre lockable diff as standard. All the others become one wheel drives in mud the landie is two wheel drive in the same place, as one wheel per axle will have drive.

I don't think that is correct.

As far as i know, all the old Japanese 4x4's had what is called "selectable 4 WD" i.e normally only the rear axle is driven and selecting 4WD connects the front axle ...rigidly, without a diff. So they are also "2 wheel drive in the mud" but can not be driven in 4WD-mode on asphalt because of the lacking centre diff.

The Landy on the other hand has constant 4WD with a centre diff .
On road its 4WD, in the mud you lock the diff.

If you want a real all wheel drive, get a Merc G-Wagen (three independently lockable diffs !!)

overdriver

I'm sorry, but all that centre lockable diff stuff is WAY over my head.
Can someone please dumb it down enough for me to understand it?

Gatster

TBH when I initially started looking it was at Defenders I looked at as they seem simple, but in reality I have always has a big soft spot for the last of the original Range Rovers (now called 'Classic'). I know they are complex cars with a lot of luxury stuff to go wrong but from what I've seen, if you wait, seemingly good ones can be had. Mechanically they're the bored out old Rover V8 so I can't see many problems there.

peasant

overdriver wrote:

I'm sorry, but all that centre lockable diff stuff is WAY over my head.
Can someone please dumb it down enough for me to understand it?

When a car drives around in a circle, every wheel describes a different radius circle i.e every wheel travels a different distance at different speeds.

That's why you need differentials on every driven axle to compensate for that.

While enabling cars to go around corners, differentials have one negative effect ..they send power to the wheel with the least resistance. Thats why one spinning wheel will stop a 2WD car.

This is where diff locks come in. A locked differential ditributes power evenly, making both wheels turn at the same rate. Great when you're stuck ...bad when you want to go around a corner.

A 2WD car has one differential, at the driven axle
A 4WD car has min 2 (at both axles) max 3 (+one between the front axle and rear axle)

The 4WD with only two diffs can only be driven in 4WD mode on loose surfaces, as front and rear axles have diferent speeds going round bends. On loose ground the wheels can slip a bit,compensating for that. On tarmac the drivetrain will eventually bind up and break ...thats why you switch off the 4WD on the road

Permanent 4WD has a centre diff, so you can send power to all four wheels on the road

Take both of these systems into a muddy track and the story is different:

Because the diffs divert power down the path of least resistance, one spinning wheel will stop a permanent 4WD (the one with the centre diff)
whereas on the selectable 4WD it takes one spinning wheel on every axle to stop the car from moving.

Only if you can lock all diffs can you ensure power to all wheels ...but you can only drive straight:D

alansan

I'm also planning to do the same Gatster, in Australia. From the little bit of research I've done the Toyota Hilux seems to be very popular second hand buy over there, especially the ones with 'pop-tops' for sleeping in.

JohnBoy

range rover classic ........

ok i'm biased cos i own one, but to go through the original list:

Land Rover Defender 110 200TDI - late 80's/early 90's
gonna be unrefined and a bit more thirsty than the disco/rangey, easier to get a reasonable 110 than a 90, 90s make crazy money, but 110s tend to have lived a harder life.

Range Rover Classic - early 90's
loverly machines, i have a 2.5 VM engine, its a bit loud but not bad, 200 or 300 tdis are much quieter and more economical and have a more useful powerband. imho the best option if its to be a daily driver.
Land Rover Disco - early 90's
the cheapest option, good mechanicals but they rot worse than either of the others, only buy irish, any early uk disco is gonna be rotten in the rear floor area and prolly the sills.

the big advantage of the land rovers is the parts prices, everything is available either main dealer or spurious, you could re-do your brakes shocks, springs an bushings for about 600 in parts, they are well cheap, fully recon gearbox is less than a grand etc.

Toyota Land Cruiser - early 90's (the boxy one, not the VX)
poverty spec in ireland, dont bother, import from the uk and you can find some nice ones including 3 litre engines, not mega refined but not bad either.

Shogun - early 90's
I would say avoid avoid avoid, at this age especially, they are nothing special to write home about, and the engines have a bad rep for emissions, very hit and miss but they tend to need injector pumps replacing and these tend to be expensive.

trooper early 90s was mentioned.
the old 2.8 boxy trooper if you can find one thats not rusted to **** is a great old truck, as are the newer roundier types, but the 3.1s tend to be a bit thirsty, the 2.8 are sweet as a nut.

did someone mention the daihatsu fourtrak? a good strong, but unrefined machine, a workhorse of the highest order. but not a car

Cmar-Ireland

If your going to do any serious offroading then get one with a solid front axle. Out of your list, the Shogun/Pajero doesn't have a SFA, the rest do. You could pick up the toyota cheap and parts are plentiful. The Defender and RR classic are pricey to get decent ones. Should be plenty of Disco's around for you price, and plentiful parts for them too...

AMHRASACH

. .2.8 & 3 litre = seriously costly road tax > 1,000 euro ! & what is the situation with insurance?

pburns

I've been tempted by the thought of an older 4x4 as a second car myself. I reckon a mid to late 90's Pajero. As good as a Toyota but much cheaper (Landcruisers are crazy money).

Would love a Defender either, much cooler than a Jap - but less refined, less reliable.

Blue850

How about a 30 year old Range Rover , you can even get 5 door ones "rebuilt" on a older 3 door chassis giving you a 80s/90s Range Rover on vintage tax/insurance.

professore

AMHRASACH wrote:

. .2.8 & 3 litre = seriously costly road tax > 1,000 euro ! & what is the situation with insurance?

i think since it's going to be used as a commercial it qualifies for low road tax, 280 / year or something like that.

milltown

Nissan Patrol for the win! Boxy, unglamorous, uncool = cheap. As reliable in the mud and on the road as anything else. Selectable 4wd with two ratios. Everything (with the possible exception of the bodywork) is made to last a quarter of a million miles and more.

AMHRASACH

katrien_ie wrote:

i think since it's going to be used as a commercial it qualifies for low road tax, 280 / year or something like that.

But what determines whether it is taxed @ private or commercial rate?
If bought already taxed comml. can it continued to be taxed so, even
in private use?

EWheelChair

bazz26 wrote:

Another one that was very rugged was the Daihatsu Fourtrak:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=482056

Just bought one of these from the UK for a garage. It's was being used and is going to be used for car recovery. Came with an elevated tow trailer. €1500 for the lot, bargain