bring back the menu!!!!!

ZygOte

For the love of god why has the floating menu system at the top of all the pages been removed? its really hard to navigate the site without it!! please please please bring it back.

c - 13

Its there when you sign in is'nt it ?

aidan_walsh

Um, it hasn't.

There is a much stripped down version being used if you're logged out, and if that bothers you - then log in. It appears that you have an account to log into, after all.

ZygOte

i just realised that it works after you sign in, still kinda annoying now that i have to sign in every time, even if i just want to browse posts.

Gordon

aidan_walsh wrote:

There is a much stripped down version being used if you're logged out

Great idea!

Tar.Aldarion

ZygOte wrote:

i just realised that it works after you sign in, still kinda annoying now that i have to sign in every time, even if i just want to browse posts.

Click remember me when you sign in, yo will always be siged in then.

Verita

Gordon wrote:

Great idea!

It's good to see this thread started. I was wondering a few things.
The DHTML menu has been removed to help with the server load. But I was wondering what causes the server more strain.
Is it better to be logged in or logged out? For example if you are logged out then boards.ie can be set to reduce the server load as a standard group of settings. No sig's, no avatars. No this and no that. But some thing as important as a menu that helps navigate the site could be standard? Site navigation is a very important part of any web site? Imagine being a new user to the site. What is more important? Navigation or bells and whistles? Maybe some thing like the little balloons that appear when you hover over a post link could be removed instead? And sigs and avatars and....

So maybe a bit of feedback from people in the know could help with this. Which could help the server load more, being logged in or out?
As I write this there are 320 member and 420 guests. Also as someone who reads boards.ie logged out 99% of the time I'd rather have site navigation over the bells and whistles.

I'd rather have to log in to use things like PM's and bells and whistles rather than plain browsing

Thoughts anyone?

DrEvil

It's really annoying having to logon to use the menu

Alkers

Verita wrote:

It's good to see this thread started. I was wondering a few things.
The DHTML menu has been removed to help with the server load. But I was wondering what causes the server more strain.
Is it better to be logged in or logged out? For example if you are logged out then boards.ie can be set to reduce the server load as a standard group of settings. No sig's, no avatars. No this and no that. But some thing as important as a menu that helps navigate the site could be standard? Site navigation is a very important part of any web site? Imagine being a new user to the site. What is more important? Navigation or bells and whistles? Maybe some thing like the little balloons that appear when you hover over a post link could be removed instead? And sigs and avatars and....

So maybe a bit of feedback from people in the know could help with this. Which could help the server load more, being logged in or out?
As I write this there are 320 member and 420 guests. Also as someone who reads boards.ie logged out 99% of the time I'd rather have site navigation over the bells and whistles.

I'd rather have to log in to use things like PM's and bells and whistles rather than plain browsing

Thoughts anyone?

All good points.

KdjaCL

So newcomers to the site dont see the multiple goodness.


kdjac

Eoin

Verita wrote:

Maybe some thing like the little balloons that appear when you hover over a post link could be removed instead?

I agree that navigation is important, but I would hate to see that part go. It may actually help ease the server load - if it wasn't there, people may end up having to go into more threads to see what they are about than they would have originally.

sturgo

All this is, is a pain in the arse for the 75,000 users. First the post archive goes now this crap. I can't think of any popular websites that have a policy of downgrading their overall functionality.

If your servers can't handle the traffic. Upgrade your servers. Surely adverts.ie can foot the bill.

Blowfish

sturgo wrote:

Surely adverts.ie can foot the bill.

Why would adverts.ie have any money?

Beruthiel

sturgo wrote:

Upgrade your servers.

I presume you'll help fund that?

Surely adverts.ie can foot the bill.

It's a free service.

sturgo

Beruthiel wrote:

I presume you'll help fund that?

Yes I will actually, & so will the 74,999 other users that visit the site. Advertising revenue. (i.e that banner ad at the top of the screen) should be used to maintain the overall site. Surely with the amount of traffic Boards gets per day, there must be a marketing strategy somewhere.

If the simple interface on boards becomes a pain in the arse to use, less people will visit the site. Right now the lack of a pop-up menu is a pain in the arse.

Blowfish

sturgo wrote:

If the simple interface on boards becomes a pain in the arse to use, less people will visit the site. Right now the lack of a pop-up menu is a pain in the arse.

Is it really that difficult for you to log in to browse?

sturgo

Blowfish wrote:

Is it really that difficult for you to log in to browse?

No, it's not difficult, it's just a pain in the arse.

Sully

Doesnt bother me, but then again, I dont visit every forum o_O

I prefer to be logged in anyway.

Tho, im supprised Boards cant fund a server upgrade or watever needs done?

Eoin

Isn't the overhead of the dropdown menu caused by all the queries that check to see if there have been new posts since the user last visited?

If so, then the dropdown menu for someone is not logged in just has to be a static one that does not require any (or at least very few) queries on the database.

In fact, a text file could be generated daily that provides the dropdown menu to non-logged in users.

Vexorg

For the one millionth time ( well maybe the 9th or 10th ) the cost of servers has absolutley nothing to do with it.

There are many factors at play here and the priority is to have the bulletin boards available, and that means constantly reducing the strain on the servers.

So if we can have less of the complaints, more helpful suggestion, and a tiny effort on anyones part to log in if you wish to use the dynamic menu.

V.

Cloud

eoin_s wrote:

In fact, a text file could be generated daily that provides the dropdown menu to non-logged in users.

That's what we had, but also be you'd be surprised at the strain that 1000s of downloads of a 65k menu can make.

sturgo

Vexorg wrote:

So if we can have less of the complaints, more helpful suggestion, and a tiny effort on anyones part to log in if you wish to use the dynamic menu.

V.

Complaints are usually a good indicators for any business. Ignore them & you're in trouble. IBB is a good example of this.

Ruu_Old

I don't think anyone have problems with complaints, its the same problem being mentioned over and over and posted in a way that nothing is being done to fix it.

Vexorg

Im not suggesting that people dont complain, less complaints and more helpfull suggestion is what we require when we are trying to ensure that the bulk of the users get a better experience and working within the constraints we currently have, but keep things in perspective.:)

Complaining that having to log in to see the dynamic menu is a painful experience vs better browsing for the bulk of users. I think its fair to ask for less of this type of complaint

In addition we have repeatedly said that the cost of the servers is not the issue here, this is a short term blib while other things are sorted out.

We do not ignore complaints, Im not sure where this is coming from?

Vex.

Verita

Cloud wrote:

That's what we had, but also be you'd be surprised at the strain that 1000s of downloads of a 65k menu can make.

Hi Cloud (and Vexorg) I would just like to say that I wasn't complaining. I have no tech knowledge about any of this. I was just wondering what was better.
The thing is I don't log in unless I have to post. At the time of posting there are 321 Members and 375 Guests.
What I was wondering was if removing the menu was worth it? As it stands there are now 375 people navigating the site using the new top menu. So click on Zyz and get a page with a lot of information + AD. Then click on Forum get a new page with a lot of info + AD then choose thread get all info including Avatars and sigs.

Like I said I have no idea what comprises as a load on the server. But with people logged out you could remove some bells and whistles? Avatars. Sigs. Would that not help with the load? It appears 50% of the users are guests at any one time.
I suppose my main point it that has removing the DHTML nav bar actually put more of a load on the server with the way Guests now have to navigate? Again I have no tech knowledge and was just putting the thought out there, feedback and all that. I wish I could give a neat solution to your problem but I don't have that knowledge.

Sparky

Why is 'Sys' as 'Zyz' anyway?

tba

Vexorg wrote:

Im not suggesting that people dont complain, less complaints and more helpfull suggestion is what we require when we are trying to ensure that the bulk of the users get a better experience and working within the constraints we currently have.

In addition we have repeatedly said that the cost of the servers is not the issue here, this is a short term blib while other things are sorted out.

We do not ignore complaints, Im not sure where this is coming from?

Let me put this from a common sense point of view. People dont know what you are doing, you say you are working within constraints we don't know what these are, they may be technical, adminstrative or monetary.

I can offer no technical support but others may be able to.
I can offer money but you claim this is not a cost issue.
I can offer adminstrative advice but i don't know the problem.

Faced with no knowledge of the problem we can offer no reasonable suggestion apart from "please fix it". That is our crutch, now whats yours?

Blowfish

tba wrote:

Faced with no knowledge of the problem we can offer no reasonable suggestion apart from "please fix it". That is our crutch, now whats yours?

I'd assume it's that the admins also have jobs, busy lives and legal issues to sort out, so the answer would be that they will get to it when they have some free time.

ecksor

tba wrote:

Faced with no knowledge of the problem we can offer no reasonable suggestion apart from "please fix it". That is our crutch, now whats yours?

The efforts to help and suggestions are always appreciated, but it's not always appropriate to go into much detail about the things slowing down progress. Where possible we try to let people know what is hampering us or slowing us down. Sometimes it's just not practical to be open about these issues. Sorry!

Smellyirishman

Now that's just silly.
Refering to having Zyz in place of Sys.

rsynnott

Am I the only one who hates the menu? It makes Safari very unhappy.

tSubh Dearg

rsynnott wrote:

Am I the only one who hates the menu? It makes Safari very unhappy.

Really? It works fine for me with Safari.

Explosive_Cornflake

ecksor wrote:

The efforts to help and suggestions are always appreciated, but it's not always appropriate to go into much detail about the things slowing down progress. Where possible we try to let people know what is hampering us or slowing us down. Sometimes it's just not practical to be open about these issues. Sorry!

Why not have a call out for people who would have relevant skills towards the problem, get them on board, tell them what the issue is, and let that team fix it? I'm sure there are loads of people out there who will help for free given the oppurtunity.

ecksor

I don't think you understood my post

rsynnott

tSubh Dearg wrote:

Really? It works fine for me with Safari.

It slows down page rendering horribly. (Safari's JS interpreter isn't the best, and the menu is a very large chunk of JS)

Giblet

There are not many sites using VB of this size that still offer the built in search and ones that do, charge for it. Also, the issues bogging down the servers may give malicious users idea how best to attack the servers ( I would think there are a lot of people attempting DDoS attacks every day for whatever reasons).

VB is NOT built to handle this many users and you can't go changing a lot of things without breaking the entire forum. Adding more servers is like painting over dirt. Sure, apply more layers and you might get some good results, but you would be better off cleaning it before you had even started.

Kintarō Hattori

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Click remember me when you sign in, yo will always be siged in then.

OK I don't mean to be stupid, but has the remember me option disappeared when you login now? I can't find it. It used to be there when I was replying to a thread. Has it changed due to the dynamic menu? Do we have to login now all of the time? (Don't mind if we do, just curious)

Tar.Aldarion

Logged out to look.
Go to any page that is not the main page and the 'rememer me' option is there.
Like how I rememebr it.
Nope we don't have to log in all the time, your computer shall remember, so it is written and so it shall be.

Kintarō Hattori

Thanks Tar, I think I wasn't actually logged out properly which is why I wasn't seeing it. Much appreciated.

Cloud

The Zyz instead of Sys thing wasn't supposed to show, I was just using it to sort menu options before renaming back - do people still see it?

Sid Deuce

Cloud wrote:

The Zyz instead of Sys thing wasn't supposed to show, I was just using it to sort menu options before renaming back - do people still see it?

When not logged in you see Zyz.

rogue-entity

Giblet wrote:

VB is NOT built to handle this many users and you can't go changing a lot of things without breaking the entire forum. Adding more servers is like painting over dirt. Sure, apply more layers and you might get some good results, but you would be better off cleaning it before you had even started.

v3.6 will hopefully solve those issues, and I am sure in time, boards will upgrade in time.

Giblet

I'm sure they are planning an upgrade, but upgrades can add even more crap.

steveland?

Just a suggestion but would removing the little textbox that appears when you hover over a link to a post take any load off the servers?

One would assume that pulling the text from the first post of every thread that's queried when you open a forum and then displaying it so it's there when you hover over it would put more strain than it's worth on the server.

I for one wouldn't miss that little textbox.

Eoin

steveland? wrote:

Just a suggestion but would removing the little textbox that appears when you hover over a link to a post take any load off the servers?

One would assume that pulling the text from the first post of every thread that's queried when you open a forum and then displaying it so it's there when you hover over it would put more strain than it's worth on the server.

Someone already made that suggestion; personally I don't like the idea. If it wasn't there I'd probably have to click into twice as many threads as I do currently, so it could be a false economy to remove it.

Tha Gopher

Ah, this is what I love about the Feedback forum. Feedback isnt always going to be good, so its rather stupid when someone makes a complaint about yet another decline in the user friendliness of boards to be met with the old "ya can use it for free, shut the fcuk up" response from mods. If your so sensitive to criticism of the site perhaps there shouldnt be a Feedback forum. Seeing as anyone who complains about the vastly detoriating quality of this site is only subject to abuse back.

Tar.Aldarion

1. Read the thread.
2. Shut up.

DeVore

Tha Gopher why do you presume that anyone who moderates any single forum for us, speaks for the whole site or the admins/owners of the site? They just speak for themselves here and what do you want us to do... censor them?

I dont believe any admin has mentioned payment or has told anyone to "shut up" here.

DeV.

Hobbes

Cloud wrote:

The Zyz instead of Sys thing wasn't supposed to show, I was just using it to sort menu options before renaming back - do people still see it?

If you don't log in you can see it.

Hobbes

I forget the name, but there is a firefox plugin that will allow you to embed your own code into a webpage.

Might be handy if someone finds and configures that. take the load off the server as it where.

Stark

Greasemonkey's the extension you're looking for I believe.

steveland? wrote:

Just a suggestion but would removing the little textbox that appears when you hover over a link to a post take any load off the servers?

One would assume that pulling the text from the first post of every thread that's queried when you open a forum and then displaying it so it's there when you hover over it would put more strain than it's worth on the server.

I for one wouldn't miss that little textbox.

I don't think that adds much load to the servers tbh. I reckon one way to speed it up slightly would be to store the first line of the first post with the thread metadata so that you save a second database query. I don't know enough about vBulletin to know if they do that already or not.