Munster's chances

Amazotheamazing

Following on from the Leinster chances thread, what do people feel of Munster chances this coming season? Seems we have been dealt another blow with our 3rd choice hooker getting injured on Friday, (not confirmed yet), so if Frankie isn't back we might really struggle in the coming months. Anyhow, that aside, I think Munster have a really good chance in this years ML, our outside backs will probably be unaffected by Ireland call-ups, so we could have 11. Dowling, 12, Halstead 13. Murphy/Kelly 14. Payne/Horgan and 15. Cullen, which is a better ML unit than we've had for sometime.

At half back we'll have O'Leary/De Looze/Hurley at 9 and Manning or Eoghan Hickey at 10

Admittedly we'll struggle in the forwards (relatively) with 1. Le Puc, 2. Frankie and 3. Roche/Buckley/McGovern. In the second row we'll have Wyatt probably partnering MOD, not as good as POC DOC, but not awful either. In the backrow we've some talent coming through with players like O'Sullivan, Quinlain, Foley and now McGann in the mix to start.

That first 15 should be capable of winning all the home matches and stealing some results on the road. I think we can make a serious push for the ML title this year.

The HEC is obviously much harder to call, but I think we can escape our group (though it won't be easy), and from there on it's a lottery. If players like Frankie, Flannery, Murphy and Quinlain can get back their pre-injury form, we'll have a relatively strong first 15 and bench. Cullen is obviously a huge unknown, a player so talented he was one of the CL's top try scorers despite missing over a 3rd of the season, and there's little doubt that players like Halstead, Murphy and Dowling are better suited to playing his style of game. He has spoken publicly about what he feels he owes Munster, and reputedly took a pay cut and refused lucrative contracts in France to stay on. In the pack, players like POC and DOC are only approaching thier best years, and Leamy has the raw potential to join them in top tier player status.

Obviously Munster are still horribly limited at half back (relative to many other top HEC teams), especially considering neither halfback possesses great front up tackling or an ability to break. They will be targetted this year, but both have the intelligence and experience to deal with it.

So people, can Munster win the ML, can they retain the HEC, can they dream of the double?

CJhaughey

Amazotheamazing wrote:

especially considering neither halfback possesses great front up tackling or an ability to break.

I have an idea that the Biarritz management and team may think slightly differently to you:D

GreenDoor

I expect Munster to top their HC group and be there or thereabouts again this season. It depends on injuries. If they have Cullen and Barry Murphy back it'll transform the backline into a top class one.

The new players will be interesting to watch especially O'Boyle, Coughlan and McGann.

It'll be a big season for the likes of Tomas O'Leary who I expect to iron out the faults in his game and he could be in the irish world squad. He's more potential than Stringer but needs to be more consistant.

CJhaughey wrote:

I have an idea that the Biarritz management and team may think slightly differently to you:D

I agree with the OP. To have 2 half backs who are small and cannot run (O'gara's ok but looses the ball to often) puts great pressure on the midfielders. O'Gara would be a better player if he had a top class scrum half playing with him.

I don't rate Stringer as highly as some because what he does he does well but thats only his passing. He can't run without loosing the ball. He can't kick. He's a good technical tackler but too small to stop people running through him.

Amazotheamazing

To be fair, he scored that try becuase everyone (including the Biarritz winger and Betsen) knew he nevers runs, once in a lifetime chance. Fair play for taking it.

obrien_pa

I'm positive Munster will top their group, and grow stronger as the HC competition goes on. It will be interesting to see if Cullen can stay injury-free for a full season. He was one of the top try-scorers previously with only a third of a season played.

Has anybody seen Murphy play since his injury. Is he back in full contact training etc now?

I'll also be interested to see how the new young ozzie openside flanker takes to the Munster game - forget his name at the mo.

Bottom line - I can't see an Irish team winning the HC this year. The big three Irish provinces will fight it out for the ML though.

obrien_pa

forgot to add --

I've never been a huge fan of Stringer - except for his legendary ability at the tap-tackle - I still remember Robinson's face when he was stopped from scoring a try for England a few years ago! A scrum-half in the mould of Isaac Boss would be more in keeping with the munster forward momentum..opposition flankers and centres have to keep an eye out for a break at all times. In fairness, no team has to worry about that too much when stringer is playing. (except Biarritz!)

As for O'Gara. He's the one of the best in the world at controlling a game with his boot. His tackling ability (or severe lack of it) has hampered his game for his whole career - and hasn't improved to date.

GreenDoor

The reason Stringer scored that try against Bairritz is because they didn't fear anything happening when Stringer got the ball. He might have scored it but look at what was happening. The Bairritz defenders left Stringer and went to mark the other Munster players. This is happening all the time. He got the try against Bairritz but overall his inability to run put the team under pressure.

MG

I have an idea somewhere that Hickey can play 12. Am I right in this and will be be able to offer adequate cover for Halstead. Seems to be that 12 could be our problem area this season.

toomevara

I think this season, more than any other, the entire squad will be tested. It may be all about depth in the end, and I'd worry about the strength in depth of the Munster team in key positions as compared to say resource rich french outfits like Biaritz, Toulouse.

logically the two in a row will be extremely difficult, but if they do it, they can lay claim to being the best rugby team ever produced by this country......quite an incentive

obrien_pa

In one sense, the pressure is off Munster now. The monkey on their back of being the nearly-men is truly dealt with. But another, equally valid, view is that since they've already won it, the incentive to win again isn't as strong..the pressure isn't there to motivate them as much as before.

I'd go with the second view. Also, the previous posts mentioning lack of depth in the squad make a good point.

vorbis

bunch of begrudgers towards Stringer there methinks

In fairness, he had a great season last year and theres few scrum halves who have the same speed and accuracy of passing as him. Also you can make whatever excuse you want but the fact remains he made a break to score the decisive try in a HC final. I think they'll be watching him a bit more closely this season.

toomevara

obrien_pa wrote:

In one sense, the pressure is off Munster now. The monkey on their back of being the nearly-men is truly dealt with. But another, equally valid, view is that since they've already won it, the incentive to win again isn't as strong..the pressure isn't there to motivate them as much as before.

Spot on obrien, this is the great imponderable of this season, has the hunger been sated, the thirst been slaked? Reckon we'll find out one way or t'other before long......

golden

correct me if I am wrong in this surely rugby is a team sport and not everybody excells 100% in every way if they work together as a team. If they have a solid team that is what that counts. If Stringer was so poor at playing how did he make that decisive try over in Cardiff?

obrien_pa

I'm not a begrudger. Stringer's a fine player in some respects. But looking at the whole package - there's an obvious lack of size/power/breaking ability. That's not begrudgery. That's fact.

Stringer's a fine player and always has been. The comments on this post have been about the team as a whole and where possible weaknesses are. Anybody who looks at the Munster team with an objective eye will see that there is a weakness at half-back.

Rugby is a team game. But obviously, the team is made up of several components. Front five - Munster are strong there. Back-row - will be competition for places there and lots of strength to call on, so strong there too. Half-backs - that's where there is a possible weakness in depth. Centres - possibly ok this season, if murphy plays to his optimum and halstead performs as well as he did last season. Back-line - I don't know - there's not a huge amount of depth there either, but good solid players involved, so no concerns.

The other element to be taken into account is the psychological element. As Toomevara says - we'll just have to wait and see!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

toomevara

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Wasn't at the game myself but spoken to a few who were and formed a similar opinion. Encouraging all right, but in my experience these pre-season games are about as useful as tits on a bull when it comes to predicting the outcome of a season once the real shooting war begins. Hope you're right though.....

GreenDoor

obrien_pa wrote:

I'm not a begrudger. Stringer's a fine player in some respects. But looking at the whole package - there's an obvious lack of size/power/breaking ability. That's not begrudgery. That's fact.

Stringer's a fine player and always has been. The comments on this post have been about the team as a whole and where possible weaknesses are. Anybody who looks at the Munster team with an objective eye will see that there is a weakness at half-back.

I agree with that.

Nobody here said stringer was a bad player and didn't deserve his place with Munster and Ireland. We're just pointing out his (too many IMO) weaknesses.