Not a great flop for aces

Hectorjelly

This is 24, villain 1 is bad. He is 38/20. Not awful post flop but not good either. Villain 2 has only just sat down but doesnt look too good from what little ive seen.

Villain 1 limps utg + 1. Folded to Villain 2 who completes the sb. I make it 20 to go from the BB with black aces. They both call.

The flop is 7 8 T, two diamonds. I bet 50 into the pot of 60, they both calls.

Turn is a black 5. I have 240 left and they both cover me. 160 in the pot.

Samba

hmmmm, tricky one....


you have two choices, keep on flapping at the pot or shut up shop...

you bet the turn and you are unfortunately commited to any raise, a check will give the draws free cards...

What could UTG+1 have limped with, 99,Axd, Suited connectors?

The SB - well, he could have anything.....and the 5 might just have a filled a draw for one of them....however this is unlikely as it's the ass end of a straight draw, you do say they are bad players......


Sure if they are as bad as you say, keep on flapping bet 120.....

NickyOD

bleuch!!

Daithio

I push this turn. Surely if they have anything that beats AA here they would have raised the flop? Looks like they're chasing to me, if they're bad enough to have you beat then that's just unlucky.

peeko

Hectorjelly wrote:

He is 38/20.

Argh?

eggie

I'd bet, if one of them has a str8 they prob had it on the flop (think theres a lower chance the 5 helped them improve ), still vulnerable to 2 pair or a set though. bet 120 - 140.

NickyOD

peeko it means His VPIP is 38% and he raises preflop 20% of the time.

I'm definitely not leading the turn. I'd have to check and evaluate. I'd probably end up check folding atleast 50% of the time here.

peeko

cheers nicky.

cardshark202

Lets go broke.

Rnger

5 was a bit of a blank. It dosent complete any draw for whoever said that. bet 80 and hope they miss their draws. Maybe bet a bit more. Fold to a reraise.

Ste05

Tricky one indeed,

My thoughts:

It certainly looks like both players are drawing. The SB would surely have re-raised with a set or 2 pair, so I'm happy that I'm still ahead of him with this 5.

The Loose Limper could possibly have a set/ 2 pair, but I think he'd probably have re-raised you on the Flop with either so again I'm happy that I'm still ahead of him here.

I'd say one of them have some sort of pair and OESD hand (9T, 89, etc.) and one possibly has the Nut Flush draw.

So...... Therefore I'm happy to bet 120 and call any re-raise. The first Villain will be getting just over 2.3:1; and if he calls the SB will be getting about 3.3:1. Then hope for a favourable river, which I'd check call, hoping one of the donks will bet his missed draw...

Although if I thought that Villain 1 would call an open push with a draw, I'd rather that line, because his call should bring the SB along too, but it certainly is a tricky one...

Bandana boy

Rnger wrote:

5 was a bit of a blank. It dosent complete any draw for whoever said that. bet 80 and hope they miss their draws. Maybe bet a bit more. Fold to a reraise.

If you bet 80 and get reraised you are folding to 80 to win 500 not good

If you bet 80 you are pot committed i feel

this is horrible situation but seeing as players are bad and your so shallow and your flop bet tied you in to the hand i might push the turn if i think 1 pair and str draw will call if not i would check call 1 player betting check fold 2 players

Gholimoli

Rnger wrote:

5 was a bit of a blank. It dosent complete any draw for whoever said that. bet 80 and hope they miss their draws. Maybe bet a bit more. Fold to a reraise.

this is awful .
if he bets 80 then assuming he will only get one caller then the pot is 320 and he has 160 left.
getting 2:1 he cant fold here to a push with both str and flush draws out there.

i still think our hand is good but its going to be expensive if we are wrong.
assuming SB has checked ,i check behind to see what UTG does.
if he checks ,happy days we can see the river and take it from there.

if he bets then we get to see what SB does?
i think you can tell alot from the size of the bet by UTG here and SB's reaction to the bet.
if SB flat calls then i deffo think we have him beat and depending on the size of the bet from UTG i may call/fold/or push .

if SB chec/raises then im happy to let the hand go cuz even though SB may check raise here with a wide range i still have UTG to worry about so i would be happy to drop it.

Samba

Rnger wrote:

It dosent complete any draw for whoever said that

64d with a 5 hitting the turn very much completes a draw, unlikely but no two cards are to be ruled with these loosey gooseys

Rnger

Bandana boy wrote:

If you bet 80 and get reraised you are folding to 80 to win 500 not good

If you bet 80 you are pot committed i feel

this is horrible situation but seeing as players are bad and your so shallow and your flop bet tied you in to the hand i might push the turn if i think 1 pair and str draw will call if not i would check call 1 player betting check fold 2 players

I've rewritten my response about 3 times! As ste said, this is a tricky one.

I was originally thinking that betting 80 was good because...
Your opponents arent getting good FE because of the shallow stacks, I cant see a good villian trying to push you off here with a mediocre draw. Any raise is beating you. But are they aware of this at all in this hand? Against a better opponent, i take this line.

I think im still betting 80+ and hoping to **** there no raise or Jd or the river.

eggie

Result??

valor

I would push in this spot

ocallagh

i like reggies line

karlh

i push too, can think of worse boards than this tbh.

i'd be most concerned with a flat calling set (possible utg+1 limper has 7s?) but i still push here if sb checks. make fds pay the max.

fuzzbox

Well at least it wasnt a 6 or a J.
SHOOOOVVEEEE


Anybody like a flop check?

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

Anybody like a flop check?

Not really, I think you'd have to C/R really which I don't like having bloated the pot OOP, but I do like Karl's new sig...

fuzzbox

Ste05 wrote:

Not really, I think you'd have to C/R really which I don't like having bloated the pot OOP, but I do like Karl's new sig...

Why do you have to C/R ?


I said CHECK ... I never saaid check/raise.

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

Why do you have to C/R ?


I said CHECK ... I never saaid check/raise.

Ye I know you said check, but I said if I was to check (which I wouldn't) I'd feel I'd have to C/R. (Which I also don't like because it could end the hand pre-maturely)

I personally don't like a Check/Call, Check/Fold or Check, Check, Check, Deal Turn.

If I check, someone bets and I just call, the pot is even bigger and I have 0 information about where I stand, if a scare card falls, am I going to bluff at it representing the straight or flush that completes, what if he was raising with a draw, and we've just bet into him. IMO we're just in complete no man's land OOP with a good hand, my feeling is that checking just creates massive headaches for us and reduces winnings and maximises losses against drawing hands and gives us no chance to get away from a set. It also increases the chances of getting bluffed.

Also if it's checked around and a blank falls on the turn and we lead out, we've just removed a betting round to charge draws... further reducing our potential winnings against drawing hands (that miss on the river)

fuzzbox

If you bet and get called, you dont have any information on where you stand either, but you are less likely to get bluffed.

Also - if it goes check/check and a blank comes off, then if some1 wants to play for stacks, you have *more* information than bet/call on the flop

Also - our equity Vs the average calling hand on this flop is not that spectacular, and the pot aint so big yet. If we check and it goes bet-raise then we can pass quietly and nobody will ever know that we passed AA.

Ste05

Makes sense, but I'd still prefer to lead, I think we get more info, as a set is likely to re-raise, as he'll also be afraid of the draws,

I also think a made straight is less likely than a straight draw/ flush draw. And if we do pass after leading they still won't know we passed AA. It could be a standard cont. bet for all the Villains know with AK. (I'm not saying I would cont. bet with AK here but who's to say they know that).

It could very easily go lead, raise, re-raise and again we can fold even more safely than with a check, raise, re-raise.

Would you actually check here or are you just opening up a discussion about it??

fuzzbox

I have checked in this spot.

I dont do it all the time, but I really hate this flop .

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

I dont do it all the time, but I really hate this flop .

Agreed...

Where's HJ with the results or action and River...

Marq

cardshark202 wrote:

Lets go broke.

Yeah I'm pretty good at that line.

Hectorjelly

I checked, first guy bet. 2nd guy pushed, I folded the best hand.