Combatives/RBSD

Budo.Judo.Kev

Are there any regularly meeting up combatives clubs in Dublin? Or is the training via seminar the main method of practicing?

I've some basic clinch, striking and ground fighting skills and would be interested to see how combatives would add to this for self-defense application.

Baggio...

Hey 'dere,

Not as far as I'm aware - unfortunately.:(

It seems to be pretty much people training individually, as far as I know (that's just on the Combatives side of things). That said, there could be well some kind of group that I haven't heard about . There are a couple of seminars worth checking out:
Mick Coup and Lee Morrison

Not too well up on the other RBSD stuff to be honest.

Cheers,

Rob.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Hi Rob,

That's what I thought. I'd be interested in seeing a bit of Combatives but wouldn't really be prepared to travel far or pay a lot of money. I know JudoMick and possibly others are also curious about the method.

Millionaire

Combatives must be an on going training systems, You must practice the techniques until you are blue in the face, with 1000s of reps.

I highly rate combatives for SD. If taught and trained proper.

Also I firmly believe that you should be doing boxing, thai, and grappling along with your combatives.

I believe if you are not sparring, or say like in Thai work with a live pad man, who is hitting you back... you have missed the boat big time.

Combatives training must be on going....

The seminars is the top guys coming over to teach people, who are parts of training groups, giving them new material to train etc. no different than any other kind of MA seminar.

For good DVD on combatives I rate Lee Morrisson on www.urbancombatives.com

Also as mentioned on other thread for RBSD , Geoff Thompson is serious recommended too www.geoffthompson.com

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

That's what I thought. I'd be interested in seeing a bit of Combatives but wouldn't really be prepared to travel far or pay a lot of money. I know JudoMick and possibly others are also curious about the method.

Hi Kev,

I reckon you should sit tight for the mo'. I predict that after these few seminars (Mick, Lee etc.). There will be a few guys wanting to start something up. Combatives is a virtually untapped market over here, so it's just waiting to happen. I originally was going to start something up in Dublin, but I'm just too busy at the moment (just joined a band - & trying to re-live my childhood:D ).

I know Boru teaches the Wagner system - but he might have some kind of weekly training thing going. I seem to remember him mentioning "impromptu" training sessions in Tynemore park, or something like that.

Cheers,

Rob.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Thanks Rob,

I see some people doing something like this in trinity college on tuesday nights, looks very systemaish. We'll see what happens.

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

I see some people doing something like this in trinity college on tuesday nights, looks very systemaish. We'll see what happens.

Cool! Let me know how you get on.

Cheers,

R.

yomchi

Hey guys,

OP, Lee is coming to Dublin in November and Mick Coup will be here next month. Im hosting Lee and Aidan from KM Ireland is hosting Mick.
I was hoping to get something going in the near future with a few of us lending a shoulder to the wheel. We'll see how it goes.
Let me know if you are interested in the Lee Morrison seminar in November.

Jon

Boru.

I started something up about 12 months ago for regular training in Combatives, full contact fighting and RBPP. It was good craic but really hard work organising and insuring it. It was also a problem walking in to work with black eyes every now and then.

It became way too much hassle though and began attracting the wrong type of people, more concerned with kciking teeth in and proving non existrent points then learning and pressure testing technqiues.

Another problem was that I was spending so much time organising, surpurvising and teaching I had no time to train myself. And I need to practice and train and learn just as much as anybody.

So I stopped holding the classes. It would be great to see regular stuff again, but I do stress there are huge problems with it. Particulaly form an insurance perspective.

I know Aidain from KM Irleand has sorted out a few freinds of mine with regular training.

At the moment I teach mainly in seminars....must resist cheap plug....and casually during the Park meet ups.

Basically I'm learning handbalancing and gymnastics off a few friends of mine in Merrion Park. Some of my friends and students also do this...some of htem want to do a little combat practice before whcih I facilitate.

Its not structrued lessons, its just a couple of people I know and trust trying to become better through harder contact. I bring some equipment and decide on a partiuclar focus for the evening, say knife work and we go at it for a few hours..then try to balance on our hands..the gymnastics sit and bet on the winners:D

I still end up doing more teaching then fighting

If you'd like to drop by I'd be more than happy to have you. Same goes for everyone, its a good laugh, but lord knows it may not be what you are looking for.

At the moment I'm up to my eyeballs trying to launch my new studio - when that's done I may, if there are good numbers, hold an evening or two during the week for some good ole Combatitives ass kicking fun. Just no blood on the new painted walls okay.:D

In hte interim I strongly suggest you check out both The Lee and Micks Seminars - these guys are amazing. With any luck I'll be there myself.

Baggio...

Boru. wrote:

but really hard work organising and insuring it. It became way too much hassle

That's exactly what I was thinking. Far too much hassle, plus I got a lot of other stuff on my plate at the mo'. I also wouldn't want it to affect my own training either.

Good luck to the Trinity lads all the same!

Millionaire

Good luck on the new Studio Boru!

The Full Contact Pressure testing or indeed sparring is important. But not all the time. Its not good getting full head shots 2 nights a week! LOL! i am about 6 zillion brian cells short, from my own time doing stuff like that!

Roper

Boru. wrote:

I started something up about 12 months ago for regular training in Combatives, full contact fighting and RBPP. It was good craic but really hard work organising and insuring it. It was also a problem walking in to work with black eyes every now and then.

Hey,
No offence intended, but this just sounds like bad training methods. If I continued to come home with black eyes and injuries, I'd change clubs. I'm not surprised you had problems insuring it. Sure, injuries happen and bruises are had, but regularly? Strange.

It became way too much hassle though and began attracting the wrong type of people, more concerned with kciking teeth in and proving non existrent points then learning and pressure testing technqiues.

In my experience, if the methods you were training with brought about the results you described above, then the tendency will be to attract the wrong kind of people.

I know you'll disagree here based on previous discussions, but I know a lot of very good "full contact fighters" and they don't come home from training blackened up. I also know people who train purely for self defence (and would hand me my ass!) much along the lines of RBSD, and they don't come home like that either. What is it that you do (did?) that gave these results?

Barry

Boru.

Thanks Gerry.

Hey Roper, disagreement is healthy right? I mentioned it was from time to time, its not like the place was fight club. We of course used full protective gear, head guards etc. The worst most came away with was a grazed elbow, or an occasional bloody nose. That siad I occasionally like to push things for myself and some other students and would practice for instance multiple attaker scenarios, just to test whether I could survive and escpae. In those situations I would take a bit of beating. I beleive quite strongly as you know that you must truly pressue test yourself in order to identify your weak points etc. This would happen maybe once every 2 months, but in the fitness business where my personal presentaiton was crucial my employers didn't look too kindly on it.

Funny thing is I got more injuries and brusies and black eyes when I did TMA and the in the bujinkan. Go figure.;)

The training methods I use are extremly safe to protect both student and instrutor. Full saftey gear is always used during class but you cannot train realistically if there is no sense of fear or danger involved. The best training i ever got was against one of the nicest people I knew, but he was a vicious little bast*&^d when fighting. I was scared sh!tless of him. I got hurt because I was afraid, I got better and I kept fighting him till I wasn't afraid. Till I could think reasonably clearly.

People weren't coming home with arms hanging off or broken limbs or busted eye scokets. There were brusises and a few headaches and thats about it, a fat lip or two, and the occasional black eye. That said it was pretty intense but it needed to be at times. What I was teaching, what Jim teaches isn't so much about physical technique but mental stamina in the face of something rational minded people would feel scared off.

For instance the most extreme stuff he actually teaches in the Women's Survival Course and I admit I am not comfortable with a lot of it. I have serious issues and porblems with some of that stuff. For instance we have a scenario right at the end, where the students aren't told what's about to happen and are led one by one singally to a room where they are instruted to change into a cat suit, over which we put tearaway clothing (so they look like they are dressed up for Saturday night with a full bodysuit underneath.)

They are then ushured into a fully prepared scenarion room, gravel or cement looking floor, niteclub entrance or alleyway, spot loughting, sound effects the works. This is a complete replica of an alleyway, right down to the smell of booze and pis$.

They are told to walk down the street, and they are attacked by an insturctor dressed as a homeless guy, a drunk or a guy in balaclava. He tries to bring them to the ground and starts to rip off thier clothing. The sounds, the feeling is all completely authentic. For all intents and purposeses it looks like an attepemted rape. If her training kicks in she fights back, she mightn't win but if she keeps fighting that's enough for now. The exercise is ended, the lights come on and we then send her away to female instructor to deal with what happened.

It is the most harsh, realistic and scary thing I have ever watched. Its part of the course, but I don't teach it. Is too extreme.

But it serves to illustrate a point. It's safe but it is to an extenet traumatic training. Thats the idea, make it as real as posisble. Have people freak out and teach them to deal with it. At times it gets very intense. IN crime survival we have bloodly limbs, the smell of powder and people screaming. We have wounded individuals who look totally f'd up and we have smoke, blood and debirs. It's like walking on to a movie set. Thats the idea.

Blur the lines so when it happens the mind thinks its already experienced it. Its kinda like a rollercoster, while your on it your freaking out,but afterwards its great fun...


and now that everyone thinks I'm insane we go back to the thread in hand...anyone else training in Dublin?

Baggio...

Roper wrote:

No offence intended, but this just sounds like bad training methods. If I continued to come home with black eyes and injuries,

That's standard "Animal Day" type training mate. It's milling not sparring. You think it's bad training? Fine... just stay clear of it then.

Millionaire

Back about 4-5-6 years ago when I was kickboxing alot... most of us senior lads in the training hall ...had an endless string of black eyes, bloody noses, fat lips.

70% of our training time was sparring. other 30% was bags, shadow, fitness.

Thats just the way the training was done. Just got hard proper kickboxing sparring with leg kick too.

It never really bothered me... I quite enjoy it!

However it did look bad, when I was going out 9 -5 with pin stripe suit to sell recruitment services to banks in the IFSC with big shiners! LOL!

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

It never really bothered me... I quite enjoy it!

Think I'm getting a bit too old at this stage for it though.:)

R.

Boru.

You know that bit in Lethal Weapon for when Mel bails out of the ring and is talking to Rog in the locker room? You know it right? Okay then will it with me..were not too old for this Sh1t, were not too old for this Sh1t....

Budo.Judo.Kev

Man, that scenario training sounds really ****ed up.

Boru.

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Man, that scenario training sounds really ****ed up.

Couldn't agree more. But I do understand where its coming from, the best way to prepare for something like rape is to experience it in as real an envirmonet as possible. This is as real as gets while still being in a safe controlled enviroment with people that can be trusted not to hurt you. I've talked to Jim about this one, apparently most of the women who go through this are shaken up, but thankful becasue they know they can get through it and survive.

Still I ain't putting people through that. Hell I still have a hard time attacking women in full contact scenarios. (Thank god) Just ask one of the more well known women KM instrutors here, she beat the tar out of me for holding back.

Roper

Good God thats horrific. People actually PAY to have that done to them? Utterly ridiculous, I think you'll also find most professionals who work with people would find that unethical.

And what if the woman loses? What then? What do you tell the woman who loses in a fake rape situation?

Ring the rape crisis centre and ask how many women are raped by homeless people or strangers.

I know you said you're not comfortable with it, and I respect that, I'm not getting at you.

As bad as I thought the fear perpetuation seemed to go on that Jim Wagner site, it seems it goes further.

Boru.

I couldn't agree more. It is horriffic, that's the point unfortunately. I couldn't stomach it and I won't teach it. That said, it does seem to go down well in the states.

Those who don't win...I asked Jim about this, and he said the idea was to foster a fighting spirit, not necessarily a victory but the willingness to do whatever it takes to make it as difficualt and hard as possible for a rapist to succeed. Don't stop kicking screaming and fighting. I suppose in a way its similar to the isreali Boiler room drill or the circle of death in more dramatic circles.

I do appreciate the idea behind it though, creating that sense of I've done this before, I can do it again attitude. The mind has a hard time later distingishing between a realisitc scenario and reality.

What really troubles me though, is the fact that in today's world something like this had to be dreamed up. I'm not saying that to entice paranioa or fear, just my view on some of the sadder aspects of today's world and society.

Please also keep in mind I am a Professional. I'm a TCM Practioner running a busy clinic and a professional fitness instructor about to open his own studio and huge alram bells started ringing when I saw this. I do see the ethical and moral dilemas involved in that. I can not in good concinece subject someone to that. But I also understand the reason it's there.

People do not have to participate in that drill. Or any for that matter. In America and canada its a different culture where perhaps people are desensitised than we are here. Perhaps they need this level of realism for it hit home?

Me - I aint touchin it with a 60 foot barge poll, but that doesn't man the system should get theon out completely. I actually think you'd like and appreciate most of it without the hype.

Does full contact and black eyes look as bad now?

Odysseus

Hi Boru, just a quick question, not having a go or trying to set you up, you stated in an eariler post that after this drill, the person in question is taken off by a female instructor. IMO it doesn't have to be a female, but does the instructor possess any type of debriefing skills? And if so what type? Cheers mate.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Actually , I feel like an idiot cos there is a group that train in a regular basis actually in the room I train in. It's an organisation called CREDo can't remember they're website address. I trained with them once, I'd nothing to gain from them. I think a couple of weeks after my session the guy went to John Kavanagh to learn ground fighting.

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

I think a couple of weeks after my session the guy went to John Kavanagh to learn ground fighting.

Ground fighting or Grappling?

Budo.Judo.Kev

grappling is subset of fighting, ground fighting is fighting on the ground, ground fighting consists of grappling.

baggio don't be so pedantic about the use of terms you may not understand or use correctly yourself, especially if they're open to interpreation.

I don't see how you can fight on the ground without using some sort of grappling.

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

I don't see how you can fight on the ground without using some sort of grappling.

I was not trying to be funny with you there mate.

For me and most other CQC guys they are totally different skills. Grappling implies a skilled struggle between two guys (more sporting context). Where as ground fighting is trying to destroy your opponent. You are not actually trying to match his skills or strength. If he's trying to grapple with you – you will be doing something else in order to stop him.

Rob.

Millionaire

Boru. wrote:

Still I ain't putting people through that. Hell I still have a hard time attacking women in full contact scenarios. (Thank god) Just ask one of the more well known women KM instrutors here, she beat the tar out of me for holding back.

LOL! Yes I know this lady too!

She is a credit to females, who really want to learn.

She would want to train under the most real conditions.

I've had plenty of scratches, cuts and brusies, from her in the past, when we trained real drills. She does not give up!

As weird, or as horrid as it sounds, to get a real feeling of the fear of a true attack etc. that sort of realism is needed. (ones its back up with proper training/delievery system etc).

Boru.

Odyssesus thank you for the question. Jim recommends a female instructor as would I if I did this. A male instructor after a violent and traumatic event caused by a male would not excatly be a welcome choice to feel comfortable with afterwards. A woman, and I realises this may be slightly sexist is a more natural counsellor in this situation. Women feel more comfortable with other women after something like this. There is a feeling of empathy and understanding. I don't know what it would be like to be raped, even after a scenario like this. A woman however does, and can empathise with the situation as it would clearly effect them in a different manner.

As regards training of the that instrucor they would have full training in the RBPP system as well as conselling skills. Are they a qualified therapist no, but I believe Jim has one or two training with him.

When I have taught womens survival I have always had a female instructor present, for the simple reason of covering my own as$. Think about it. These women are going to be placed in comprimising situations where they may be mounted, pinned or straddled, all necessary when teaching choke, grabs and pins defences, and it would be very easy for someone to charge you later with a whole host of problems. The presence of a female instructor chaparonnes the class as well as giving the women present a physical proof so to speak that this works and that they can do it.

Again you can see the huge issues invovled in this scenario, just another reason I steer clear of it. Good question though raising an intresting point. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on why you feel it doesn't have to be female instructor?

Boru.

Budo.Judo.Kev and Baggio, thought I'd just chie in here as you guys brought up this difference between ground fighting and grappling. I'm with Baggio on this. From a RBPP grappling is a very dangerous thing to do, you could be tying this guy up while his mates are kicking your head in or you could be rolling on broken glass, syringes etc.

In the Ground Surivival course I teach I focus manilty on striking technqiues while on the ground - not grappling. SUre we cover escapes form major holds but we focus on quickly doing damage so we cna et up and run the hell away.

We practice striking from both sides of hte mount as well whne lying on your side...not many people practice that but its a huge possability. We also teach kicking, head bouncing drills and stuff like that. I won't waste my time grappling someone if I can put my thumbs through his eyes. (I now that sounds extreme, but most ground situations would be lethal force response due to the high rsk of secondary impact from the ground, thus a lethal response technqiue may be justified).

Grappling is fun, I enjoy a bit of BJJ, not very good at it, but I like it. I'd never dream of using it in a street fight and its not what I teach.

ground fighting consists of grappling

Perhaps if that's your style or system. For me ground fighting consists of stiking, lots of it with a few defenses against common holds and chokes.

Boru.

She is a credit to females, who really want to learn.

Damn straight she is. One of the best.

Budo.Judo.Kev

How can you hit someone while you're BOTH on the ground without being in a strong balance position? Surely you'd have to grab something at some stage to get your posture for your strikes. Ground and pound involves basic wrestling skills.

Anyway, it's jsut terminology.

Colm O'Reilly, i implore you, stick up a stickie with a definition of some terms we all know what each other are talking about!

Millionaire

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

How can you hit someone while you're BOTH on the ground without being in a strong balance position? Surely you'd have to grab something at some stage to get your posture for your strikes. Ground and pound involves basic wrestling skills.

!

I ll answer your question with a personal experience of mine, I was just a kickboxer who trained hard when this happened, and knew nothing of RBSD, MMA etc... I did read a few Jeet Kune DO Books and a few Wing Chun books and many other MA books, so even though I was just kickboxing, I had an awarness of other MA.

I got attacked one night, over an comment a drunk friend of mine made to this girl. Attacker thought it was me who said what ever and jumped on me.

I am just shy of 6 foor and was a fit 12 stone.. this prick was about 6' 4 and I guess easily 17 stone. and a real aggressive bastard. I d say he had a good record of street violence... we all know the type.

Anyway without going into all details.... we ended up on ground. He was on top of me..."grounding and pounding" me street fighter style. So I was struggling and he was wrestling me and trying to punch my head in. I though I was fcuked for once and for all, like head trauma injuries.

Solution.... I knew about eye jabs... but never really practiced them too much. So I was on my back, and I just kept firing eye jabs at this eyes as fats and as hard as I could, and I was really going for it too. (I was getting head battered off me for something I did not do. by a big brute.. so all is fair at this stage).

Anyway, a few jabs hit home, and I was able to get him off fast, (he was still on top) regain my feet, and finish the job.

Thats how strikes worked for me on the ground, against a bigger more violent opponent, when I was not trained in ground nor in things like eye jabs.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Well the stage between the last eye jab and getting to your feet involved some kind of grappling. You don't need to be trained, everyone has an instintive grappling ability.

Millionaire

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Well the stage between the last eye jab and getting to your feet involved some kind of grappling. You don't need to be trained, everyone has an instintive grappling ability.

yes, when survival mode kicks in, which is an very intense... and a quite horrible feeling actually, cause you are capable of doing anything...

I guess as far as I can remember it was a cross btwn a buck, and I remember bucking to one side, and pulling him down hard to the other.

Look, I ll be honest, but I do not want any slagging over this, as we all know each other at this stage online anyway..

I bite him at this stage, to competely get him off me. I had no choice, he was really battering me. The bite worked... it seemed to really startle him. of course I let go once I got the "flinch" reaction.

anyway enough of this, not nice for me to say. But thats what really happened. thats what I did to get back on feet.

He was a violent street thug, and he deserved what he got. He could have landed me in intensive care.

Boru.

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

How can you hit someone while you're BOTH on the ground without being in a strong balance position? Surely you'd have to grab something at some stage to get your posture for your strikes. Ground and pound involves basic wrestling skills.

Anyway, it's jsut terminology.

Colm O'Reilly, i implore you, stick up a stickie with a definition of some terms we all know what each other are talking about!

To be very cheeky and I mean no offense what so ever by this, If you don't know the answer to that one then you really should take my course. lol.

You don't grab anythning because then you are down at least one striking weapon. Its like tying a hand behind your back. This is exactly why I teach these skills and technqiues, because at the moment its not generally done outside the combatives and RBPP circles and it should be.

Here's a quick explanation. We are all proabably familiar with punching someone from either above and or below a mount. From below the key aspect is to toque the whole body and really bring in the shoulders to the movement. All of this is easy to demonstrate then explain and if its not clear please let me know and I'll try to explian it further.

Know lets look at stiuation when your are on your side, and fighting an opponent. It could happen right? Well the idea in this case is to deliver as mush force behind the stirkes as possible and eventually try to mimic a stomping sort of attack wihtt he legs, thrusting in to the opponent as hard as possible and then getting up and running.

Of course fndamental to all of this is the ground conflict position which allows you freedom of moevement in 360 degress and a range of distances and stiking fields. This is drilled from numerous angles, perceptual distorition drills, tunnel vision drills, multiple attackers etc.

Blocking against knifes, against kicking, aginst stomps, head bouncing and counter attacks to all of this are also taught. All coming from the same prinicpals of torqueing and power generation from the ground.

As regards terminology I'd be more than happy to provide a full list of terms and definitions, its already in our course handouts. That said poeple will argue and quibble. Each style has their own vocabulary, it's part of what defines them as a style. I think that converstations like this, questions and feedback, help the understanding of everyone.

I know I certainly have a better idea in my mind as to the differences between ground fighting and grappling just becasue I had to explain it and in so doing clarified my position on it. I love answerng these quesitons, it's helped me understand myself and the system I teach so much more.

kenpo_dave

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

How can you hit someone while you're BOTH on the ground without being in a strong balance position? Surely you'd have to grab something at some stage to get your posture for your strikes. Ground and pound involves basic wrestling skills.

Hey Kev. You coming down to training later? Ask Shane to show you striking on the ground. Im sure he'll be happy to do it.

OSU,

Dave.

judomick

When is your next groundfighting course and do you drill the techniques against resistance......and how much is it?

Tim_Murphy

For some unknown reason this is reminding me of that Larry Tatum ground defence video clip. Now that sh%t was Street!:)

Tim_Murphy

Personally I've never met anybody without grappling skills who could strike well on the ground. I doubt there are many out there.

Striking out of a bad position isn't generally the brightest idea IMO, just reminds the guy in the good position that he can hit you too.

loz

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Striking out of a bad position isn't generally the brightest idea IMO, just reminds the guy in the good position that he can hit you too.

This is probably the reason the eye attack above worked - If the attacker ( guy on top ) had a good position Buro would'nt have been able to reach the eyes !

Millionaire

loz wrote:

This is probably the reason the eye attack above worked - If the attacker ( guy on top ) had a good position Buro would'nt have been able to reach the eyes !

The attacker had a great position on top of me.

Someone 4 - 5 stone heavier and much stronger, raining bare fist punches down, and coked out of their brain on god knows what (I guess from aggression of attack).

I was fighting off the back foot from the word go! he had the advantage.

It was mindset, and willings to do whatever it took to survive, that got him off me.

Roper

kenpo_dave wrote:

Hey Kev. You coming down to training later? Ask Shane to show you striking on the ground. Im sure he'll be happy to do it.

OSU,

Dave.

a) I think Kev knows what striking on the ground is
and
b) I'm sure Shane would agree that he'd have to get to a dominant grappling position first before striking.

Roper

Boru. wrote:

What really troubles me though, is the fact that in today's world something like this had to be dreamed up. I'm not saying that to entice paranioa or fear, just my view on some of the sadder aspects of today's world and society.

I don't think this 'had' to be dreamed up at all. Once again look at the statistics for rape. In most cases the attacker is known to the victim, and this trend is more or less similar in western countries. That makes this kind of scenario misleading, and TBH, the way you've described it reminds me of things like 'stranger danger' programmes for kids to prevent sexual abuse, when in fact its rarely a stranger at all.

I think the only reason that this 'had' to be dreamed up, is because either someone is preying on fear, or someone has let their imagination fuse with Hollywood to come up with a scenario.

My point is that for something that claims to be "reality based", it seems to be a great distance from reality.

Again, no offence intended to you personally Boru.

Millionaire

I think if a woman had this type of training Boru describes (stranger rape/attack) and then as the statistics show, she has a rape attempt by a know person to her, she would have a much much better chance of fighter then rapist off.

Sort of like, if you simulate the most extreme situation, then anything below that intensity level is mabe easier to handle?

I do not think this type of training preys on people fears. Its nice to know that people who want to sign up for it, it there for them if they want to do it. If it helps one to two people survive something terrible, just one or two... then ist worth it.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Jeez, I feel like a jackass. I know how to strike from the mount position. I know what to do when someone is in the mount position when striking me. I was doing this to shane on tuesday Dave and yes I'll be there later and I'll make sure i find out what's going on cos i'm confussed.

Millionare, simply, even with the eye pokes and bites, you were stll doing a basic grappling maneouver getting out of that position.

I'm going to lie down for a whiel now and think about tihs.

Budo.Judo.Kev

thanks barry I was thinking for a sec that I'd was missing SOMETHING REALLY BIG.

Millionaire

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Millionare, simply, even with the eye pokes and bites, you were stll doing a basic grappling maneouver getting out of that position.

.

yes I sure was...even though I did not know it at the time!

What I do know, is what I did works under an extremely dangerous violent situation. Tried & Tested! and hopefully never has to be used ever again!

kenpo_dave

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Jeez, I feel like a jackass. I know how to strike from the mount position. I know what to do when someone is in the mount position when striking me. I was doing this to shane on tuesday Dave and yes I'll be there later and I'll make sure i find out what's going on cos i'm confussed.

Millionare, simply, even with the eye pokes and bites, you were stll doing a basic grappling maneouver getting out of that position.

I'm going to lie down for a whiel now and think about tihs.

Lol. Sorry Kev. I was just responding to when you said - "How can you hit someone while you're BOTH on the ground without being in a strong balance position" - What I really meant was that any questions you may have just put them to Shane. I didnt mean to imply that you dont know ANYTHING about striking on the ground.

See ya later.

OSU,

Dave.

Budo.Judo.Kev

See ya later dave!

the point I thought I was making was you need to be in a good position to throw decent strikes and to get to a good position you need good ground skills. My question was supposed to be rhetorical.I'll say no more. Can't wait for training later!

kenpo_dave

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

See ya later dave!

the point I thought I was making was you need to be in a good position to throw decent strikes and to get to a good position you need good ground skills. My question was supposed to be rhetorical.I'll say no more. Can't wait for training later!

Ye, I think Bas Ruttens saying "position before submission" applies to striking on the ground too.

Can't wait for training later

You sure about that? Its impact conditioning tonight

OSU.

Budo.Judo.Kev

hehe.