Price Advice - Baikal Over/Under Double Barrel

digital_junky

Hey guys,

Looking to buy my first gun for game hunting.

I have been looking around and everyone is telling me to get a Baikal which I will more than likely do.

I was looking at a gun today and hoped people on here could tell me whether the deal is good or bad....

I gave the dealer the model i had been told about izh27 but he never heard of that.

The one he showed me was a

Baikal Over/Under Double Barrel "Sporting" 12 bore with ejectors.

He is looking for 750 in total.

is this a good price or is he pulling a fast one

Thanks.





p.s. why do all gun dealers seem like dodgy f***ers

Chopperdog

digital_junky wrote:

He is looking for 750 in total.

is this a good price or is he pulling a fast one

Run away from that shop very very quickly before he gets the saddle to ride you even further.
That is way over priced for that gun.

If you have your mind set on a Baikal, P.M. me and I can point you towards someone who will do you a much better price than that

In that price range you could even pick up a nice little second hand Beretta game gun.

Are you really sure that it is a Baikal you want?
They are a good workhorse of a gun yet are not the prettiest of pieces.
Have you tried any other makes?

Try before you buy, and stay from that con-man masquerading as a gun dealer.

civdef

I was just wondering to myself if inflation really was that bad in the 5 years since I last sold a Baikal!

Have to agree with chopperdog, you could certainly look at picking up a smoother gun than a Baikal, my usual recommendation in that price range would be for a Lanber.

The gun he showed you would have been an izh 27 model.

Feel free to share with us where this expensive shop is..

digital_junky

civdef wrote:

I was just wondering to myself if inflation really was that bad in the 5 years since I last sold a Baikal!

Have to agree with chopperdog, you could certainly look at picking up a smoother gun than a Baikal, my usual recommendation in that price range would be for a Lanber.

The gun he showed you would have been an izh 27 model.

Feel free to share with us where this expensive shop is..

mid west sporting supplies in newmarket on fergus, clare

it is a new operation. a guy that purpose built a garage type shop on his farm. saw his name in irish shooters digest and guy in the gun club said he was undercutting some dealers in munster. maybe he was chancing his arm with someone that doesnt know much about guns yet.

Clare gunner

Thanks for the warning.I was going to go and see what he is all about.If he wants 750 Euros for a Baikal.I will stay farrrrr away.Obviously now trying to pay for the shop and buliding work.

Hezz700

you will do very well with a Lanber for around 950 euro Very solid and reliable. but you would equally do good with a Yildiz at only 450 euro. Iremex has one and i have to admit to being inpressed by it, and i'm a confirmed Beretta fan.

Hezz.

newby.204

Hezz700 wrote:

you will do very well with a Lanber for around 950 euro Very solid and reliable. but you would equally do good with a Yildiz at only 450 euro. Iremex has one and i have to admit to being inpressed by it, and i'm a confirmed Beretta fan.

Hezz.

Where did you find a Yildiz for €450, i paid €695 for my Yildiz O/U with
ejectors/selector/mobil chokes.

OP in my limited experience that seems quite "stiff" and im just wondering was he including the lubricant in that:D . Shop around a few other dealers and see what they have, have no qualms about letting them know the prices you are being offered elsewhere and watch the prices drop like hot snots!!!

vcsggl

Don't know whether any of you guys have come across : http://www.ukgunroom.com/viewGun.jsp?id=484
he's just over the border on Co. Fermanagh and has a good range, mainly s'hand , at really good prices. He's also very friendly and helpful which from what I see on this site is rather rare among the Irish dealer fraternity! I would echo all the advice about the Baikal - way overpriced. I recently bought a really nice Sabatti 12 O/U here in the UK - Avalon Guns - for less than a third of what your man is asking.

George

Vegeta

digital_junky wrote:

mid west sporting supplies in newmarket on fergus, clare

it is a new operation. a guy that purpose built a garage type shop on his farm. saw his name in irish shooters digest and guy in the gun club said he was undercutting some dealers in munster. maybe he was chancing his arm with someone that doesnt know much about guns yet.

you've saved me a trip now cos i am from clare also.

Yeah that's a bit harsh in fairness. Unfortunately being from clare you don't have many options on firearms dealers.

Slav

digital_junky wrote:

Baikal Over/Under Double Barrel "Sporting" 12 bore with ejectors.

He is looking for 750 in total.

The shotgun you’ve been looking at was either Izh-27EM-1C Sporting or MP-233EA Sporting. At a glance the price might look scary but I think it is not. For example, Izh-27EM-1C Sporting sells in Russia for 20000 - 22000 rubbles (1 EUR = 34.5 RUR) while the base model Izh-27M is usually at around 9000. I don’t know the details of price formation of Russian guns in EU but they are usually overpriced here from my point of view (e.g. price of AK- or RPK-based semi-auto rifles for some reason doubles in Europe ). So I think the price for the Sporting model you was given might be not too far from the reality.


On the other hand, I think a Baikal O/U in sporting version is not a perfect choice as a game gun. In my opinion there are 3 cons: single trigger, ejectors and ‘value for money’ of course. I believe if you broaden you search to other brands, pre-owned guns and possibly side-by-sides that money will buy you a really beautiful field gun.

Clare gunner

233EA Sporting[/COLOR][/URL]. At a glance the price might look scary but I think it is not. For example, Izh-27EM-1C Sporting sells in Russia for 20000 - 22000 rubbles (1 EUR = 34.5 RUR) while the base model Izh-27M is usually at around 9000. [/FONT]I don’t know the details of price formation of Russian guns in EU but they are usually overpriced here from my point of view (e.g. price of AK- or RPK-based semi-auto rifles for some reason doubles in Europe ). So I think the price for the Sporting model you was given might be not too far from the reality.

If my maths is correct that is a base price in Russia of 579 Euros??Pretty cheap for Russian standards,considering Moscow is now the second most expensive city to live in bar Tokio in the World.So that would be Export price,adding costs,export permits,import duty,vat,and profit for the dealer.It is about right.BUT for what it is,it is still too much.
Dunno how you getting that Russkie stuff is overpriced in Europe.A Saiga12 semi shotgun goes for standard in Germany at 750 Euros dealer price.The Veper AK lookalikes go for about800 to 1500 Euros with accessories dealer price.Compared to Western stuff made by HK refurbishment companies,or AR15 companies.They are good value.It is proably because WE in Ireland have to import to the UK and then to Ireland,that adds alot to the cost of anything

In my opinion there are 3 cons: single trigger, ejectors and ‘value for money’ of course. I

Just curious, as to why you would consider ejectors and a single trigger on a game gun to be a disadvantage???

Vegeta

Clare gunner wrote:

Just curious, as to why you would consider ejectors and a single trigger on a game gun to be a disadvantage???

I was wondering the same thing

Hezz700

newby.204 wrote:

Where did you find a Yildiz for €450, i paid €695 for my Yildiz O/U with
ejectors/selector/mobil chokes.

Griffith and Hawe in Athy about a year ago but i does'nt have ejectors and its fixed choke. what you paid is bang on for what you got.

Hezz.

Slav

Clare gunner wrote:

BUT for what it is,it is still too much.

I absolutely agree. The basic Izh-27M has its niche as an inexpensive field workhorse, but the attempt to make an entry-level clay pigeon gun out of it is probably not a good idea. It just can’t compete there.

Clare gunner wrote:

A Saiga12 semi shotgun goes for standard in Germany at 750 Euros dealer price.The Veper AK lookalikes go for about800 to 1500 Euros with accessories dealer price.Compared to Western stuff made by HK refurbishment companies,or AR15 companies.They are good value.It is proably because WE in Ireland have to import to the UK and then to Ireland,that adds alot to the cost of anything

On Russian market Vepr is from 300 Euros for a basic model up to 500 Euro for the top of the line Vepr-308 Super Sporter with free floating barrel and adjustable buttplate and cheek piece. Saiga-12 is discontinued now but they were about 300 – 400 Euros as far as I remember.

Clare gunner wrote:

Just curious, as to why you would consider ejectors and a single trigger on a game gun to be a disadvantage???

Maybe it’s just my own preference. I find it way simpler and quicker to fire the barrel I need just by pulling its own trigger rather then "push then pull" the trigger to change the default order. As far as ejectors are concerned, in the field I prefer a simple extractor so I would remove the shells from the barrels manually rather then pick them up from the ground few yards away. For me single trigger and ejectors are more a clay pigeon gun attributes.

Vegeta

Slav wrote:

Maybe it’s just my own preference. I find it way simpler and quicker to fire the barrel I need just by pulling its own trigger rather then "push then pull" the trigger to change the default order. As far as ejectors are concerned, in the field I prefer a simple extractor so I would remove the shells from the barrels manually rather then pick them up from the ground few yards away. For me single trigger and ejectors are more a clay pigeon gun attributes.

oh ok, to each their own i suppose.

I just know for hide work i like ejectors cos there can be some fast paced shooting and the ejectors speed up the reload for me.

I can see where you are coming from though, if you didn't have the best back then you'd hardly want to be bending over all the time to pick up empties.

Clare gunner

On Russian market Vepr is from 300 Euros for a basic model up to 500 Euro for the top of the line Vepr-308 Super Sporter with free floating barrel and adjustable buttplate and cheek piece. Saiga-12 is discontinued now but they were about 300 – 400 Euros as far as I remember.

Ok,I checked this with the German importer [waffen Shumacher] and the story is;The Saiga isnt discontinued,it is just now too expensive to import,and that the last of them are sold out until next year. Over on Egun.de the last of the Saiga12 eight shot mags are selling at 98 Euros:eek: This is basically now the knock on onto the price of the new Baikals.
Ivan has got greedy,and is trying to flog his crude but reliable stuff on the EU market at Western prices.Sort of like asking Mercedes prices for your Lada.

digital_junky

Guys,

I got another quote today on a gun. your advice would be appreciated

I got it from Landers in Tralee

Model: Baikal 27 EM - IC
Gauge: 12
Barrel Length: 28"
Multi Choke
S/S/T Ejector

Price: 680

Slav

Clare gunner wrote:

The Saiga isnt discontinued,it is just now too expensive to import,and that the last of them are sold out until next year.

Well, at least in Russia you won’t buy a new 12 gauge Saiga these days, only the smaller ones in .410. The rumours are that Izhmash had discontinued Saiga-12 and passed it to another factory (that produces Vepr rifles) where they came up with Vepr-12 - an AK-style shotgun based on Saiga-12K-30. Anyway, there is probably very little for us to worry about, as the only use of this particular type of firearm I can think of is IPSC shotgun.

Clare gunner wrote:

Ivan has got greedy,and is trying to flog his crude but reliable stuff on the EU market at Western prices.Sort of like asking Mercedes prices for your Lada.

Not sure. EU market is not that big. In the US and in Russia (where they sell the vast majority of their products) Baikal guns are not that expensive. For example, that sporting o/u gun sells in USA for less then $600 under Remington SPR310S name.

Slav

digital_junky wrote:

Model: Baikal 27 EM - IC
Gauge: 12
Barrel Length: 28"
Multi Choke
S/S/T Ejector

Price: 680

Even if it were the lowest price you can get I still would not go for it. Well, maybe, but only if I it has to be a new gun and for no more then 700 Euros.

Check what the price tag they have in UK, e.g. http://www.wiltsrodguns.co.uk/folders/guns.php

What are you going to hunt for with it btw?

digital_junky

mainly for duck and pheasant

maybe rabbit and fox

it is new at 680

Clare gunner

Slav wrote:

Well, at least in Russia you won’t buy a new 12 gauge Saiga these days, only the smaller ones in .410. The rumours are that Izhmash had discontinued Saiga-12 and passed it to another factory (that produces Vepr rifles) where they came up with Vepr-12 - an AK-style shotgun based on Saiga-12K-30. Anyway, there is probably very little for us to worry about, as the only use of this particular type of firearm I can think of is IPSC shotgun

.


Or an attitude re adjuster for home defence .:D
True it is more a IPSC or combat gun,but it is a real blast to shoot!!! I have shot clays with it as well,and the looks you get when you arrive on the line have to be seen to be belived!:eek:
BTW Veper is a name of I gun I thought that Izamesh made.Seeing that Izamesh is the State owned gun maker,and pretty much the only maker and exporter from Russia?

Slav

Clare gunner wrote:

Or an attitude re adjuster for home defence .

Not a good enough reason to licence one in this jurisdiction!
And most of them have short barrels, shorter then 24"?

Clare gunner wrote:

BTW Veper is a name of I gun I thought that Izamesh made.Seeing that Izamesh is the State owned gun maker,and pretty much the only maker and exporter from Russia?

It seems like there are at least 4 plants:

1. Izhevsky mekhanichesky zavod (All IZH and MP shotguns, combos and rifles, sport and combat pistols, air rifles and pistols)

2. Izhmash (military long arms: AK and Dragunov, semi and bolt rifles, Saiga shotguns)

3. Molot (Vepr semi-autos, Bekas pump and semi shotguns, reworked and re-barrelled Mausers, Mosin and Simonov rifles). It’s interesting that Vepr-12 is only on the Russian page of their site.

4. Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod (all TOZ and MC shotguns and rifles plus some specialised military weapons)

Vegeta

Ok i bought my ammo for the 1st of September off the gun dealer mentioned above and he was the single soundest gun dealer i have ever met.

His prices are piss cheap. I honestly think he is selling too low, i felt bad at the prices we were getting ammo for.

He is very friendly.

Even though he knew we were only buying ammo he let the brother and myself handle any guns we wanted, he took out pistol after pistol for us to view and handle.

We stayed and talked for an hour.

My brother asked him to price a top end trap shotgun and he was 300 euro cheaper than the closest dealer. 5000 euro compared to 5360 quoted elsewhere.

Maybe i caught him on a good day but i would highly recommend him. Very friendly guy and great prices.

Kramer

Anyone have a number for MWSS or location? Need some bits'n'pieces & thinking of heading out today for a look see.

Can't find any details for him.

skylime

Sorry does any 1 no wer i can get a gun license,it will be my first,is there any wer on the internet??? tanx

Kramer

skylime wrote:

Sorry does any 1 no wer i can get a gun license,it will be my first,is there any wer on the internet??? tanx

If I understand correctly (& that's not easy ), talk to your local FO (firearms officer).

Kramer

Vegeta wrote:

We stayed and talked for an hour.

Maybe i caught him on a good day but i would highly recommend him. Very friendly guy and great prices.

Me too .

Very sound guy & highly recommended by me too :cool: .