Cross-genre pollination discussion #1 - Arcturus

Karl Hungus

Alright, as Metrovelvet put it:

Metrovelvet wrote:

Additionally you would have more collaboration from people who have different areas of interest or knowledge and people would learn more and be exposed to different areas of music. Wouldnt it be interesting to hear the perspective of a jazz tune from someone with a trad background or vice versa? Just as an example.

Maybe you could have something like a song/album weekly discussion? Like a book club but for a song or album? Maybe Karl - you pick the first one, people talk about it for a week or so and then you designate the nest person to choose.... and it goes on and on like that?

I dont know if it would work but its just an idea to invigorate the music fora.

So for this, hopefully the first in a series of threads, I have selected the band:

Arcturus

Definetly one of the more interesting bands going today, and described as an 'Avant Garde Metal Band' in their wikipedia page, but also incorporating a wide range of influences and experimenting with styles like Classical, Electronica, Trip-Hop, Progressive.

Here is the song Hibernation Sickness Complete from their latest album. If you go here, you'll hear two fantastic songs of theirs, Kinetic, and Chaos Path. On their Myspace Page, there's also songs on offer from all 4 of their full-lenth albums, so altogether all that will give you a good idea what the band are like.

So give a good listen to all the songs, I especially recommend the song Kinetic, but it's hard to pick out a bad song from these guys. It's all pretty out-there though, so don't expect much of an easy listen.

Anyway, give your thoughts and pespective on the music, especially if you're unfamiliar with them, or your forté is a different genre.

pbsuxok1znja4r

I definitely prefer Kinetic over Hibernation Sickness. It's slightly less the typical of what I've heard of scandinavian metal and power metal. The electronic touches (the ones that sound less like keyboard ambience etc) are good, particularly during the bassy interlude. It screams cheesy just after the intro, though, when it breaks into the classical lead guitar harmony type part. That 'final countdown' kinda vibe is a little too prevalent throughout a lot of the song. I think it's kind of natural minor key/scale with a couple of harmonised minor turns (I *think*!). Hehe I do like the keys on the very end of Kinetic, it for some reason reminds me of the end of Faith No More's Epic. Probably 'cause that's the band that use keyboards a lot that I'm most used to listening to. The spoken-ish parts remind me, too, heh.
I really like the rhythms, though. From the stumbling beat of the intro, to the 16th note chuggery just under two minutes in. Some 3/4 or 6/4 timing, too. I'd like if the guitar/s locked in with a few more of the double-bass kicks, though. Just for heaviness or whatever. I mean, for a lot of the song the rhythm guitar is just doing nothing but ringing out for whole bars. Yeah it's all very classical sounding. Though that doesn't in itself do anything to endear it to me...
Well, Kinetic's definitely good. I like it, but I've heard too much of that old-school and power metal tonality already to really love it anymore.
The only part that sounded 'fresh' to me was the bass stuff on the interlude.

Hibernation Sickness - The verse progression reminds me a lot of Sonata's The Power Of One. I like a lot of the angular progressions and key changes but not so much when they're overlayed with keyboards. I think a lot of what disappoints me is their instrumentation. Ugh, squealy pinched harmonics. The only time I've ever liked those was on the MoP intro.
Key center kind of meanders a little too much for my liking at times. It's too 'sweet' like that. I mean, if I had the kind of perfect pitch that makes you hear 'coloured' notes, this would be too much of a rainbow of notes...if that makes sense! Sometimes I think you need to cut out melody to squeeze the most of the melody you leave in there, by contrast, almost. I like a lot of the beats in this, too, though. The double-bass-filled bars with the snare hits are nice. The ambient synth on top of it really does ruin it for me though. I understand that this is all inherent to the style of their music and I don't mean that they should change it or anything, I'm just pointing out that it's these things that make me like it less.

Also another gripe I have with this is kind of...production, maybe. The drums, for my taste, lack a little 'thud' in the mix and the the palm-muted guitar stuff too. Maybe I'd prefer slightly more down-tuned guitars with heavier strings, that kind of thing; a little less lightweight. The leadwork is great in that it cuts through nicely, but the riffery and lower-end stuff lacks punch, if that makes any sense...Meh, it's always a trade-off with something else, though.

For the most part the vocals do nothing for me. I liked the screamy/throaty part on Hibernation Sickness, though. It's a little tamer than what I'm used to, though. It's all a bit too scandinavian for me though, on Hibernation Sickness, anway. Kinetic I quite liked. Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed listening to both tracks! It's good stuff, I'll definitely be coming back to it when I'm in the right mood for melodic metal.

Uh, so, there's my rambling attempt at discussion on / analysis of it! Heh, forgive me if I've misused any terms here, my theory's getting a little rusty at this stage Sorry I didn't get to listen to more than two tracks; maybe I've gotten an inaccurate or skewed prespective on 'em as a result. I'm on dial-up so I can't really stream from myspace or anything. :mad:
Good band \m/

Karl Hungus

That's quite an interesting read there Tommy. I wouldn't say you've an inaccurate prespective at all though, I think it's fairly accurate, fair and honest.

I wouldn't really agree about downtuned guitars, seeing as Arcturus work a lot in the upper registers, where a lot of bands don't. But of course, you saying that the vocals do nothing for you, while I find both Simen Hestnæs (Who sung on Hibernation...) and Kristoffer Rygg (Kinetic) easily some of the most phenominally talented vocalists alive, Simen for his unique vocals, and Kris for his sheer range.

I do agree about the drums, but there's a lot of low-end frequencies in the synth and bass, so with such a complex sound, as you say it's always a trade-off.

I know what you mean about the "Rainbow of notes" and I thought the exact same thing when I first heard Arcturus. I actually didn't like them at all, and it took a few listens to one song before I eventually 'got' them so to speak. It's that the songs are so multi-layered it can be hard to see the forest for the trees, if you get my meaning.

I remember giving someone a listen to the song "Master Of Disguise" and them exclaiming how they just couldn't listen to it, that there was too much happening.

It takes a bit to get past before you can really take it all in. Or at least in my opinion.

metrovelvet

Oh my god I just wrote a response and its gone! argh. Anyway- I'll try to sum up what I wrote.

Ok. Im not familiar at all with this genre but I've give feedback since I pushed Karl into starting this thread.

Hibernation Sickness - those scandinavian winters must really be getting to them.

It starts out sounding like Philip Glass, proceeds with what sounds like Earth Kitt singing Goldfinger and then evolves into what sounds like heavily produced layers of everything but the kitchen sink. As someone once said about Mozart "too many notes". Holy ****, talk about being hit over the head.

It aspires to somewhere between tragedy and frustration but its absolute sincerity makes me laugh instead of feeling the pain. And the vocals, while yes the voices are trained and you can hear the skill, I just find the sounds irritating. And the lyrics are just ridiculous. My favorite parts were where he wasnt singing.

I found Kinetic more interesting overall. Im not a fan of heavy guitar usage- it kind of makes me nauseaos - but when I block it out I can actually HEAR the song.

Im guessing this aesthetic is adrenaline based? would that be right?

Karl Hungus

metrovelvet wrote:

Im guessing this aesthetic is adrenaline based?

How do you mean? Elaborate please.

metrovelvet

I shouldnt have said "adrenaline based". What I mean, is high energy and aggressive sound.

Karl Hungus

metrovelvet wrote:

I shouldnt have said "adrenaline based". What I mean, is high energy and aggressive sound.

No, not at all. I think Arcturus' sound comes from the dynamics, layers and textures. It's about the complexity of composition, and while there might indeed be parts where it could be considered high energy, that's not what it's about.

For comparison, this is something I would consider agressive and high energy. Or perhaps this.

Tar.Aldarion

nesf showed me this band at some point, I have loved them since. Avant garde metal would be exactly how I would describe them, whatever it is, nyom.

Karl Hungus

Hmm, 3 opinions so far. Not exactly a raging success for a thread, is it?

Can we get some more discussion/opinion on this? Especially if it isn't the regular style of music you listen to.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Come on people...weren't a lot of users pushing for this idea?

Listen and comment! Even if it's only to slag and/or take the piss. They are enjoyable tunes, though, I promise.
(Well, I guess I can't guarantee you that, but, yeah. Just listen!)

cornbb

I listened to Hibernation Sickness, The Chaos Path and Kinetic - I wasn't wholly impressed to be honest. I'm not saying that the band aren't good, but its not really my thing and I don't see a whole lot of cross-genre pollination going on. The musical style is almost 100% metal, albeit with some electronic instrumentation and a little rhythmic variation. The musicianship is great and the production is slick (almost too slick, very 'reverby') but I don't think I'd call these guys avante garde. The songs aren't very thematically focused - the fact that the key centres wander around the place isn't necessarily a bad thing but it means the songs aren't really held together very well.

When I read the thread title, I though "Oh great, it'll be the new Tool!" but I guess that was a bit premature Having said that, I'm not the worlds biggest metal fan - maybe this music would be good for metal enthusiasts who are interested in slightly broadening their musical palates?

Regarding my own musical tastes, I used to listen to tons of alt. rock and a little metal but mostly listen to IDM/electronica and classical these days. Open to pretty much anything though. Just my 2c. I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy this particular band a lot more than me. I think this is a fantastic idea for a thread, by the way, look forward to the next one.

metrovelvet

I didnt find it avant gard either and I thought the genre was pretty straight forward. And I also thought it was over produced, nearly satirical.

Karl Hungus

cornbb wrote:

I'm not saying that the band aren't good, but its not really my thing and I don't see a whole lot of cross-genre pollination going on.

Well the whole cross-genre pollination doesn't refer to the band, or the music, it's refering to people who enjoy different styles and genres converging for discussion, getting different perspectives on something from people who normally wouldn't listen to such things.

cornbb

Karl Hungus wrote:

Well the whole cross-genre pollination doesn't refer to the band, or the music, it's refering to people who enjoy different styles and genres converging for discussion, getting different perspectives on something from people who normally wouldn't listen to such things.

Oh, I misunderstood. Objective achieved then, I guess

davej

I cannot doubt their technical prowess but to me their music just sounds too much like a rock opera/musical for my tastes (especially "kinetic"). Like it belongs on the 1970's "War of the Worlds" soundtrack - know what I mean?

"The chaos path" was slightly more interesting - mainly because of the more pleasing eastern sound and vocals. Overall I am reminded of stuff like Mr. Bungle and Dream Theatre which is either a good or bad thing depending on your tastes I guess.

Just to mention that my own musical tastes are very varied - it's just I don't expect to hear dozens of different musical genres crammed into one song!

davej

pbsuxok1znja4r

^Hmm that's odd. Everyone else up 'till now (myself included) has maintained that Arcturus were not in fact blending multiple genres into any one song....at least not any more than prog/power metal already was in the first place...
Any Mr Bungle songs in particular it reminded of?