U2 dodging tax?

gurramok

From http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/8636370?view=Eircomnet

U2 may end up not paying upto €15m in tax by moving their royalty earnings to Holland as the artist tax exemption will be ending soon.

Do people think this is justified by U2 even as the man himself Bono preaches to the rich to help the poor while hoarding money offshore in tax havens and everyone else pays their fair share of tax?

*snip*
The supergroup have set up a company to handle the income from their royalties, which would be taxed heavily here when the cap on the artists' tax exemption comes into force next year.

U2 earned around €217m last year and about one-third (€72m) came from royalties from record sales, cover versions and radio plays of their songs.

Under the changes introduced by Finance Minister Brian Cowen, 50pc of the band's royalty revenues would be exempt from tax, but the remainder would be taxed at 42pc.

According to financial sources, the move to the Netherlands - where royalties are not directly taxed - could save U2 up to €15m.
*snip*

Terry

U2 have always been shrewd business men.

Bono gives his fair share to charity, so i don't really see the problem.
he's not asking everyone to give away all their money, while not giving anything away himself.
don't like their decision? don't buy their products. simple as that.

Sarsfield

Ireland has made bazillions out of getting people & corporations to put their money here for tax reasons. It's one of the main reasons we're so wealthy now.

Can't see how we can complain when the money starts flowing in the other direction.

dermot_sheehan

I think it is slightly hypocritical of Bono who calls on people to give to the third world to avoid his contribution to ireland's overseas development budget. Surely it's ok for him to call on the PAYE paying masses to donate in addition to their tax contributions which support irish aid projects why he himself to save a couple of million moves offshore.

Sarsfield

gabhain7 wrote:

I think it is slightly hypocritical of Bono who calls on people to give to the third world to avoid his contribution to ireland's overseas development budget. Surely it's ok for him to call on the PAYE paying masses to donate in addition to their tax contributions which support irish aid projects why he himself to save a couple of million moves offshore.

That's really stretching it. Although maybe he should have moved to Sudan or Ethiopa for tax purposes instead.

dermot_sheehan

Well I think it isn't.

He's ducking out of paying the irish state a few million more (because Lord knows he needs a few extra million), while at the same time calling on the state to increase it's charitable spending in other countries (which incidently doesn't directly improve the lives of the million or so PAYE tax payers). He either pays tax and therefore has a say in how Ireland spends its money or should frankly piss off. I'd have a similar view of Sir Anthony O'Reilly, or Smurfit or any other tax exile, if you don't pay tax here don't tell the rest of us tax payers how to spend our money.

Terry

he's not asking us for any money.
he's asking the G8 members to drop the debt owed to them by third world countries. that doesn't affect us.

Xennon

Well its not as if. when the band were struggling to make it to where they are now, the government provided support for the irish rock music industry. No, better to give Twink a job in RTE.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Ah leave them alone, U2 are a national treasure and deserve to be treated like kings.
equestrians on the other hand... pff...

Flukey

It's up to them what they do with their business affairs. Bono has done a lot of good work. There are plenty of tax exiles who do nothing.

Umiq88

They make 72m on royalties and are takxed 17m on it i mean why the hell should the government get that its like being punished for being successful. Fair play i say to bono. In no way am i against payin taxes i mean the country needs funding but from what i can see in my limited view of politics the government needs to cop themselves on theres plenty of money going around its there job to distrubute it and make sure its being used properly and to everyones advantage

leeroybrown

Some major artists were bound to move their earnings to a company elsewhere before the artists tax exemption was capped. These earnings were only in Ireland previously because of the uncapped exemption. It's perfectly legal and from a purely business point of view it makes perfect sense. I think that 90%+ of Irish people would do exactly the same thing in U2's position.

We have major multinationals in this country for exactly the same reason as U2 is setting up a company in Holland - lower tax. The rest of the EU and the US dislike the fact that we do it.

Overall the tax intake will improve slightly due to the capping and the artists it should really benefit will be no worse off.

seabee

I think it's a bit hypocritical of Bono - Do as I say, not as I do. RE the tax issue The Rolling Stones have being doing this for a while. Did you know that one of the reasons why artists organise really long world tours 12-18 months is so that they are not present in their home country for a certain amount of days per year and therefore are declared as "non-resident" for tax purposes.Another example is the many "Riverdance" clones, many of the companies behind these productions are registered in Germany due to their tax regime (my friend told me - used to work for one of them). I'd guess that the production companies receiving the revenue for concerts etc are also registered in a tax friendly country

Lust4Life

U2 were the forerunners in gouging fans in ticket prices.
Only the hardest or hardcore fans would pay so dearly to attend.

Haven't heard much new from them lately. So maybe they're just trying to protect what they already have.

I do love their music. But there's no way I am spending a day's salary to see them.

mickd

Dont they produce an album at a rate of 1 every 3/4 years? Its not two years yet since the release of atomic bomb. You have a point about ticket allocation and price though

ferdi

i've no problem with it, i dont want U2s money tbh

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

gabhain7 wrote:

I think it is slightly hypocritical of Bono who calls on people to give to the third world to avoid his contribution to ireland's overseas development budget. Surely it's ok for him to call on the PAYE paying masses to donate in addition to their tax contributions which support irish aid projects why he himself to save a couple of million moves offshore.

so true, he is a shrude businessman...

remember the last time he went worldwide on poverty...speaking at the UN and all.....

it was just coincidental that they had a new album coming out later that year...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

ferdi wrote:

i've no problem with it, i dont want U2s money tbh

I'll take it:D

Dragan

While U2 have done a few things that i do not agree with ( ticked prices as mentioned, branded i-pods for stupid money etc ), and i am not a particular fan of there music in any way, i don't have an issue with this.

It's not something anyone else cannot do, and Bono does give plenty of his time and money to charity, even if he is a self rightous ****er!

stevejazzx

We attracted so many artists to come and live by having this artist tax
getting rid of it is big mistake, the accountants of these guys will already have plans in place for moving their earnings/royalities
Irish government is counting on the fact that ireland is built up now to some degree and retains it's charm without such incentives, perhaps famous artists might keep their houses but they're soon to be moving their money somewhere cooler. Such a shame as i think it was a brilliant by haughey to bring this in, very clever, as invariably you indirectly introduce money into an economy, money that our clever government will now find increasing ways to indirectly introduce out of the country.

Dyr

Ive never listened to a U2 album in me life, they're a shower of prize winning pedigree muppets. Jesus i remember the 80s when they were playing croker and and every sap, gaylord and spa in this city was a U2 fan replete with spiky hair/mullet combo and stone washed jeans. :mad:

Nevermind tax exile, can't we just put them into exile full stop?

magpie

This sickens me - we give them freedom of the city, build them a priapic tower to replace their shabby shed on the docks and they don't pay a single cent in tax. I say **** them out of the country permanently.

Dragan

magpie wrote:

This sickens me - we give them freedom of the city, build them a priapic tower to replace their shabby shed on the docks and they don't pay a single cent in tax. I say **** them out of the country permanently.

Well in fairness the governement changes the rules a little....did it ever occur that all that stuff was done in advance of the tax hike for that very reason?

"sure we;ll make these gesutres and get the cash back and more in tax"????

magpie

Fine, take the tower back then. I pay tax, where's my tower?

toffo

so what, everybody would dodge tax if they could.

po0k

Just remove the problem by regulating the price of records.

No album should be over 10eur.

Dragan

toffo wrote:

so what, everybody would dodge tax if they could.

I still would not consider it tax dodging....it's not as if they SHOULD have been paying tax and were not......the rules are changing and they are doing what they need to do in the face of those rules.

No one seemed to have such a major issue when they didn't need to pay at all.

markk06

It has nothing to do with how much money bono has or indeed what he has done for charity or world debt or any of that crap.

U2 is a global brand which makes millions every year and like every other major corporation it seeks to maximise profits and minimise their tax burden. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Its merely a form of tax avoidance, if it weren't for other companies doing this such as the major computer companies who engage in transfer pricing and repatriation of profits to their other gobal operations Ireland would still be in the state it was in a few years ago with no jobs and no money, so i say fair play to U2 and their shrude tax advisors...

jank

Nothing wrong with it IMO.

If you dont like then give up your day job set up your own company/band and do all the paper work to get your tax down...

Fine, take the tower back then. I pay tax, where's my tower

Dont they own the Land where this tower is going to be built?

Tha Gopher

So will Bono and crew have to live outside the country for something like 6 months and one day of the year to avoid tax? In the UK Rod Stewart, Tom Jones and Sean Connery all do this (dunno what Sean does it for, whats the last film he made anyway?)

Fcuk U2, theyve always treated Ireland like sh1te. Ill bet theyve done more gigs in the US than here.

Dragan

Tha Gopher wrote:

Fcuk U2, theyve always treated Ireland like sh1te. Ill bet theyve done more gigs in the US than here.

Once again, while i am no fan of U2's music, they are that.....musicians. While it's well and good to write your own music and be happy with that i know very few aspiring musicians who do not dream of playing to the big audiences, and making the big bucks.

Should U2 have played endless concerts here, that people would not have been able to go to?

Like any business you go where the market is, and the US is a huge market, plain and simple.

When you imagine how many times you could fit Ireland into America, and what our population is VS there's, i imagine the ratio's work themselves out.

shnaek

U2 are a global brand, and Bono is the CEO. While the CEO will speak up on some issues he will not take a stand that will damage U2 inc, as opposed to the Dixie Chicks, REM, Springsteen etc who will take a stand for what they believe in whether it hurts their sales or not.

U2 inc are perfectly entitled to avoid paying tax here. Many of us would do it if we could. Should we condemn them for it? No. Should we respect them for it?

Dyr

Dragan wrote:

i know very few aspiring musicians who do not dream of playing to the big audiences, and making the big bucks.

I know lots of musicians and i cant think of any who have aspirations towards "the big time", they'd like lots of money but being a star? nah. It's usually tossers like mono who only play in a band in the hope of "making it"

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

I know lots of musicians and i cant think of any who have aspirations towards "the big time", they'd like lots of money but being a star? nah. It's usually tossers like mono who only play in a band in the hope of "making it"

As i said, playing to big audiences and making big bucks.

I never said anything about being a star.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

shnaek wrote:

U2 are a global brand, and Bono is the CEO. While the CEO will speak up on some issues he will not take a stand that will damage U2 inc, as opposed to the Dixie Chicks, REM, Springsteen etc who will take a stand for what they believe in whether it hurts their sales or not.

so very well said, i have been trying to put my finger on it for so long, but you have hit it in one...

U2 are not a band into music, they are a business into making money.
where as the rest you quoted are into the music... great point and very well proven...

that's why they are lacking musically, but still one of the biggest selling "bands"

Dragan

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

that's why they are lacking musically, but still one of the biggest selling "bands"

Spot on. They are well marketed....there songs "mean something".

They are "positive" etc.....parents don't mind there kids listening to U2.

peustace

Bono the CEO? what a load of sh**e. Every member of U2 has the same level of say in the direction of the band, some would argue the Larry has the strongest say. This whole thing about u2 leaving for Tax reasons has all of a sudden become an issue about Bono. Maybe Bono has no say where the money resides but typical of us Irish we beat down the guys that have made it to the top.

And so what if Bono spoke to the UN the same year How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb. He has been working on the Debt issue for the last 20 years. Its only in the last 7/8 years it has grabbed so much media attention. There has been more progress made in Debt cancellation in the last 3 years has there has been in the past 60 years combined and that is partly due to Bono, not so much is political influence, which is minimal, but the way he has used the media spotlight to highlight something we've ignored for so long. Credit, simply, where credit is due.

manonthemoon

Ethically, it is wrong. We all have to pay our way in this country. Why should they be any different?

Bono and the lads wave the flag but wont pay tax like the rest of us. Paying tax is a more patriotic act than waving a flag, singing national antem, watching our national team etc. Quite simply when you pay tax you are putting a share of your earnings back into the country, back into the community for the greater common good.(How the money is spent by the government is another issue)

The more you spend the more you should be obliged to pay back in. It is simply, the right thing to do.

As for U2, ye are either with us or ye are not.

Giblet

manonthemoon wrote:

Ethically, it is wrong. We all have to pay our way in this country. Why should they be any different?

Bono and the lads wave the flag but wont pay tax like the rest of us. Paying tax is a more patriotic act than waving a flag, singing national antem, watching our national team etc. Quite simply when you pay tax you are putting a share of your earnings back into the country, back into the community for the greater common good.(How the money is spent by the government is another issue)

The more you spend the more you should be obliged to pay back in. It is simply, the right thing to do.

As for U2, ye are either with us or ye are not.

No, they pay tax and they pay more than any one person could ever hope to earn in their life time, probably 5 times over. They just pay a smaller percentage than the rest of us.

If anyone else had that kind of money, you would have to have an idiot financial advisor to be paying the same rate as the rest of us chumps.

Gotta hand it to Bono.

Years of talk about poverty, and then he sinks a cool quarter billion into the tribute to and celebration of American capitalism that is Forbes Magazine!!

Talks the left wing anti-America clatrap, but when it comes to putting his money down he's to the right of Bush...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1217552.ece

latenia

Giblet wrote:

No, they pay tax and they pay more than any one person could ever hope to earn in their life time, probably 5 times over. They just pay a smaller percentage than the rest of us.

If anyone else had that kind of money, you would have to have an idiot financial advisor to be paying the same rate as the rest of us chumps.

Actually, they each usually pay about the same income tax each year as someone on about E50-60k.

The artists exemption is a national scandal; why should someone who works hard 6 days in a warehouse be valued less than a cynical money making exercise knocking out Barry Manilow covers (Westlife)? In fact, what bright spark in the Revenue decided that Westlife, Boyzone, Def Leppard, Chris De Burgh etc are 'original' or of 'cultural merit'? Those are two of the supposed conditions for receipt of this exemption.

It's an interesting coincidence that the Taoiseach's only two children are both large beneficiaries (one through her husband) of this break. Could this have been part of the reason why it wasn't stopped altogether?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Deleted User wrote:

Gotta hand it to Bono.

Years of talk about poverty, and then he sinks a cool quarter billion into the tribute to and celebration of American capitalism that is Forbes Magazine!!

Talks the left wing anti-America clatrap, but when it comes to putting his money down he's to the right of Bush...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1217552.ece

what a f@#king hypocrite... he is some ass.
he doesnt give a s#it about the poor or all that other s#it he waffles on about.
never mine the "end poverty" try "end bono"

Giblet

I don't see how making money is hypocritical. What do you expect him to do? Give every penny away? Maybe in a few years he will give it all away when all these investments have great returns. Some of the jumps people make, it's ridiculous.

manonthemoon

Giblet wrote:

I don't see how making money is hypocritical. What do you expect him to do? Give every penny away?

No, just pay his way. Same as the rest of us.

Giblet wrote:

Maybe in a few years he will give it all away when all these investments have great returns.

I might refrain from paying taxes myself. "Oh yeah, Mr. Taxman, I am not paying taxes at the moment because I have a few investments and in few years I will be minted and then I will pay you back. I Promise. Scouts honour.":rolleyes:

Its the same for all the rest of the Irish Super-rich. JP McManus, Magnier etc. proud to be Irish until they have to cough up some of their lolly.


Sell Outs the lot

Giblet

Giblet wrote:

I don't see how making money is hypocritical. What do you expect him to do? Give every penny away?

Not at all. If I were him, I'd do the same. But he shouldn't give us all that anti-capitalist guff (as any survivor of the Merchant of Venice Inter Cert syllabus will tell you, money lending and the expectation of a return is the epitome of capitalism) while at the same time sending his money abroad so as to avoid tax and investing it in the bannerhead of American capitalism.

Great singer. Good luck to him and his money. Just no more lectures and moralising please.

Takeshi_Kovacs

Yeah but, shure isn't he going to give away that extra 15 million to the poor.. being the good fella that he is...

Terry

when has bono spoken in an anti-american/ anti- capitalism way?
i'd actually like to hear or read it.

BendiBus

Maybe Bobo was still thinking about the poor when moving his money to Holland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4785813.stm

julep

julep wrote:

when has bono spoken in an anti-american/ anti- capitalism way?

He campaigns continuously for countries to write off their loans, which is pretty much counter to the idea of capitalism and a return on investments. Google 'Bono debts' for any of his many pronouncements.

Collie D

Lust4Life wrote:

U2 were the forerunners in gouging fans in ticket prices.
Only the hardest or hardcore fans would pay so dearly to attend.

Don't agree with that at all, I've always found that wheneve they play in Ireland their tickets are cheap compared to other acts of their size/status.

Terry

so he's supposed to live in poverty while campaigning for rich countries to write off debts owed to them by third world countries?
this whole bono bashing is really sad and just shows how many Irish people are begrudgers. rich Irish people are no longer getting their money by screwing over the poor people and helping the english. that ended nealry 100 years ago. time to let it go, people.
the man tries to do some good and all he gets is people calling him a prick for earning money.
he entertains millions around the world and that's how he makes his money. you might not like his music, but plenty of other people do. just get over it. it's not like he's taking money out of your pocket.
anyway, top charitable people of last year:

Forbes Magazine has published a list of “Generous Celebrities”, highlighting the incredible generosity of some of the world’s most public faces.
The ten celebrities listed are:

* Bono supports AIDS charity DATA and many others
* Sandra Bullock gave $1m to the American Red Cross after the 9/11 bombings, and has also donated to the Tsunami relief fund
* Nicolas Cage supports Chrysalis, an LA charity for the homeless, and gave $1m to Katrina relief
* Jackie Chan is a UNICEF ambassador, founded the Jackie Chan Charitable Foundation, and gave $100,000 to Chrysalis
* Céline Dion is Celebrity Patron for the Canadian Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, and donated $1m to the American Red Cross after Hurricane Katrina
* Angelina Jolie has given more than $3m to the UNHCR
* Paul McCartney supports the Adopt-A-Minefield charity, and he and wife Heather Mills jointly donateed $1.9m to Tsunami relief
* Arnold Schwarzenegger supports the Special Olympics, and in 2001 he donated a total of $4.1m to the Twin Towers fund, After School All Stars and Nelson Mandela’s children’s fund
* Steven Spielberg is a patron of the Righteous Persons Foundation, founder of the Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation, and gave $1.5m to the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts
* Oprah gave $52m to charity in 2005 alone, and wrote a personal cheque for $10m to help victims of the Katrina disaster

http://www.looktothestars.org/news/71

yeah. lets all shoot bono for asking rich countries to help poorer ones. he doesn't give any of his money to them.
bono bashing is fashionable and all bono bashers are sheep.