Compare Aikido 7th dans

MaeveD

Nothing good on the tv, no alcohol..... I'm bored...most people won't care or even see any difference but...

if you're interested here's some:

Absolute sh1te

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0VcOtneCRU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOKN_GlXvAs&mode=related&search=

Absolute class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL4NdgHqRMk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGFJUlGfWO8&mode=related&search=

SorGan

I see a lot of difference between the two, but the attacks are all too linear for my taste, it needs a bit of updating, it could be so cool..:D

Mola.mola

That's what happens when you have non performance based promotion system. And how you get politicians running your organisation.

pearsquasher

Beautiful. Nice jodo waza too - techniques with 4 ft staff.

Tim_Murphy

The second two videos certainly look a lot cooler. Such a pity that there are never any videos of aikido guys trying to do any of it for real, I'd like to see that.

MaeveD

Tim_Murphy wrote:

The second two videos certainly look a lot cooler. Such a pity that there are never any videos of aikido guys trying to do any of it for real, I'd like to see that.

and Christian is about 5ft 5 or 6, smaller than me... one of the coolist Aikidoka I know on and off the mat!

Video footage no.... CCTV yes

Tim_Murphy

Video footage no.... CCTV yes

In other words, actual evidence no... anecdotes yes.

pearsquasher

Ha ha... good luck in finding 7th Dan aikidoka cought on video in "real" fights.
Even if you did i doubt it would look like aikido as it appears in demonstrations. The dojo is the dojo and no-one I know who's training with intelligence is under any allusion that it looks the same in real life.

I'd also like to know what mola.mola means by...

That's what happens when you have non performance based promotion system. And how you get politicians running your organisation.

in relation to the video clips.

Perhaps aikido isn't about performance?
Is Koizumi in charge of Aikido in Japan?

dlofnep

Looking at aikido, at least the second of the two videos - I don't think it's completely worthless. I think some of that could very well be translated against someone who doesn't want to be thrown.. But alot of what I saw was a guy going with the flow.. In real life, stuff is not that smooth.

pearsquasher

In real life, stuff is not that smooth

Do you honestly think that 7th Dan aikidoka don't know that?

Going with the flow can be an extremely useful part of training. Resisting ALL the time could prove nasty in training/real life. I;ve seen people resist against locks/reversals/strikes/takedowns and it often proves detrimental to both their learning experience and their health.

Aikido is one of those arts that it seems to me particularily highlights this going with he flow feeling more than others - perhaps too much, I don't know.... but i wouldn't knock it till I tried it for longer than beginner level. No aikidoka i've ever met has claimed to be a fighter but they have managed to use their skills to escape conflict.... smoothly or not.

pma-ire

Aikido has some great principals on ballance and unballancing an attacker!!

Judo has some of the same principals but Aikido's are more refined!! But as mentioned in real life attacks don't go that smooth!!

They are ellements though that cannot be ignored!!

Nice clips Maeve!!

columok

Judo has some of the same principals but Aikido's are more refined!!

Dunno where you got that from. Judo's principles are identical except Judo's principles tend to be practised a lot more against resistance.

SorGan

columok wrote:

Dunno where you got that from. Judo's principles are identical except Judo's principles tend to be practised a lot more against resistance.

yep

Mola.mola

I've never done Aikido, I wanted to but Colum told me not to so I didnt . But outside of France and parts of Japan I've never seen it thought in anyway that I'd say, this would be useful to Judo.

Maybe what Pma means Aikido has some of the same concepts as Judo (maybe all) but one or two of them are much more concentrated. Probably the yielding to oncoming force etc. Go with the flow etc.

I met an aIkido guy in UCD for the BJJ open session and he had really really really nice movement and I just thought to myself, if he was doing Judo/BJJ rather than aikido 3 times a week he'd be tapping me the **** out right now rather than tumbling around.

pma-ire

columok wrote:

Dunno where you got that from. Judo's principles are identical except Judo's principles tend to be practised a lot more against resistance.

Aikido tend to try some unballancing movements that would be considered too soft for Judo as they would not be used in competition.

Indeed the resistance thing is a big factor there!! Too many Aikido'ka love to fly through the air!!

pma-ire

Mola.mola wrote:

I've never done Aikido, I wanted to but Colum told me not to so I didnt . But outside of France and parts of Japan I've never seen it thought in anyway that I'd say, this would be useful to Judo.

Maybe what Pma means Aikido has some of the same concepts as Judo (maybe all) but one or two of them are much more concentrated. Probably the yielding to oncoming force etc. Go with the flow etc.

I met an aIkido guy in UCD for the BJJ open session and he had really really really nice movement and I just thought to myself, if he was doing Judo/BJJ rather than aikido 3 times a week he'd be tapping me the **** out right now rather than tumbling around.

Thats kinda what I meant alright!:D

MaeveD

Tim_Murphy wrote:

In other words, actual evidence no... anecdotes yes.

Huh... Real evidence is more likely to be caught on CCTV!! We have a dvd of real fights from the US caught on CCTV and Police Video, I can't post any of it but it's very interesting.

MaeveD

Mola.mola wrote:

I've never done Aikido, I wanted to but Colum told me not to so I didnt .

Tut tut....you should have made up your own mind...!!

I do the French style (the last two clips), I don't 'fly' unless I have to... we've done some classes with Judo clubs and they don't think what we do is soft at all.

SorGan

MaeveD wrote:

Tut tut....you should have made up your own mind...!!

I do the French style (the last two clips), I don't 'fly' unless I have to... we've done some classes with Judo clubs and they don't think what we do is soft at all.

Do the techniques differ if the attacker simply stands there and punches away insted of charging forward?:)

MaeveD

SorGan wrote:

Do the techniques differ if the attacker simply stands there and punches away insted of charging forward?:)

Me...for that scenario I'd use a self defence technique using Aikido/BJJ not a pure Aikido technique... if I wasn't running away real fast!

pma-ire

MaeveD wrote:

Tut tut....you should have made up your own mind...!!

I do the French style (the last two clips), I don't 'fly' unless I have to... we've done some classes with Judo clubs and they don't think what we do is soft at all.

Good on you guys Maeve!!

Roper

pma-ire wrote:

Good on you guys Maeve!!

Wow, that wasn't patronizing at all....:D

Hey Maeve a mate of mine trained down with you guys at the Aikido and had nothing but good to speak of it. He didn't mention its self-defence applications or what have you, nor would I personally be convinced of them but I just thought I'd mention it!

pma-ire

Roper wrote:

Wow, that wasn't patronizing at all....:D

That was'int meant to be patronizing?? Thats why I used the ??

If I had meant in a bad way I would have said

Good on you guys Maeve!! :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Or something like that!!

MaeveD

Roper wrote:

Wow, that wasn't patronizing at all....:D

I mustn't be as sensitive as you Roper

Roper wrote:

Hey Maeve a mate of mine trained down with you guys at the Aikido and had nothing but good to speak of it. He didn't mention its self-defence applications or what have you, nor would I personally be convinced of them but I just thought I'd mention it!

The technique I mentioned wouldn't be taught in a normal Aikido class.. there's a syllabus to keep to (but we wander off slightly sometimes ) It's what we call a control and restraint technique. Rays great with the self defence/street aspect of Aikido, shows where all the strikes are, though we don't put them in.. they're still there!!

Jons agreed to be a guinea pig for the (female) going to the ground as self defence as per the other thread... so maybe he'll lend himself to a practical Aikido technique too and report back to you guys on what he thinks.

Musashi

I think it's worth a try if only to learn to breakfall like the Attacker in the first vid. (01:00 to 01:11?) There is no Aikido locally, so I guess I'll have to try get to Waterford City for some Judo training at some point.

I just have this really strong mental image of "Austin Powers" in a frilly shirt neck chopping guys while shouting "Judo!"

p.s. I know that's not real Judo, they never shout it out, and the Frilly Gis are Gold Weave

RealJohn

I'd like to see how those guys would do against Ricky Hatton.
Or better yet, a more cautious boxer like Winky Wright or Bernard Hopkins. No wasted movement, just lots of pain.:D

ninjawitatitude

Hey Maeve,
Like the clips. Now for the inevitable questions

1. Is it my imagination or does every aikidoka hate Steven seagal and if so why?
2. You mentioned that you do the french style, how does that differ from the Japanese (or other) styles? How or why did the split occur anyway?

I actually had more questions, but i got kicked really hard in the head tonight and can't remember any of them. I'll post again if I think of em.

Thanks in advance

columok

French Aikido Federation (of Ireland).

Still Aikikai but have a more athletic dynamic (but not to the whitefriars extent) training method.

MaeveD

ninjawitatitude wrote:

Hey Maeve,
Like the clips. Now for the inevitable questions

1. Is it my imagination or does every aikidoka hate Steven seagal and if so why?

I can only speak for me... he's an arse, his films are crap and his Aikido speaks for itself as you can hopefully see....

ninjawitatitude wrote:

2. You mentioned that you do the french style, how does that differ from the Japanese (or other) styles? How or why did the split occur anyway?

There's no split, we're Aikikai, Cyril Lagrasta 4th dan linked to Philippe Gouttard 6th dan and through him to Christian Tissier 7th dan in Paris... through him back to Japan. All Aikido clubs in Ireland train slightly to vastly different styles... I suppose you could say we're more dynamic. When the club started 11 years ago we were affiliated to JR, but we had a lucky escape
Aikido in Japan can differ vastly class to class, depends on whos teaching... they all have there own different ways

ninjaatitude wrote:

I actually had more questions, but i got kicked really hard in the head tonight and can't remember any of them. I'll post again if I think of em.

I got kicked in the forehead at last Thursday nights class by a Garda Sergeant... the lump came up like in the cartoons, have a lovely bruise at the mo.

columok wrote:

French Aikido Federation (of Ireland).

Who? Never heard of them,our organisation is called Dublin Aikikai Aikido

ninjawitatitude

Hey Colum,

columok wrote:

Still Aikikai but have a more athletic dynamic (but not to the whitefriars extent) training method.

Em.....what? Sorry bro, I'm not sure what your getting at? Do you mean fitness levels? This is Brendan Dowling's class you're talking about, is it not?

columok

Quote:
Originally Posted by columok
French Aikido Federation (of Ireland).
Who? Never heard of them,our organisation is called Dublin Aikikai Aikido

Sorry Maeve I meant in a colloquial way. In a sense you guys started (officially politics schmolotics) as a dublin branch of the french aikido federation as cyril was a french aikikai guy after the whole IrAF split thingamagig! Kinda like Simon(e) in Mayo/Galway...

Em.....what? Sorry bro, I'm not sure what your getting at? Do you mean fitness levels? This is Brendan Dowling's class you're talking about, is it not?

I knew a few people that used to train in Whitefriars with Brendan and out with Cyril also. They always said that comparatively speaking Cyrils classes were quite athletic. I think more dynamic than the IrAF people that I used to train with. Also I think Whitefriars Aikido took such dynamism and yieldingness to an extreme- I don't mean any offence- but in a considerably less intense athletic fashion. Though their ukemi were always excellent.

focusing

They say the first thing on the agenda in an Irish political organisation is usually a split.

MA in Ireland seems to follow the same tradition.

MaeveD

columok wrote:

Cyrils classes were quite athletic

Athletic... I'd never describe them as athletic, but I can't think of a word to describe the difference

Focising... there were lots of really good reasons for the so called split and it wasn't the first thing on the agenda... people wanted to train and grade and the couldn't so they had to found a way were they could!

focusing

Sorry, it was a general flippant comment, rather than Aikido-specific.

Dyr

Seems as some people brought up aikido against resistant partners...here's a few clips of competition aikido...try spot the difference between this and the 7th dans flipping their uke's (aka the unknown stuntman that makes shihan look so good) around like skittles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmC393TAJA&mode=related&search=

Roper

Listen,
I'll only warn you all one more time. This topic's very existence angers The Seagull, and when he sees it (right now he can only sense it), he will bring the weight of his stoic fury down upon all who have contributed to it. I, in warning you, have endangered my own life, though I may escape his expressionless wrath due to my fawning admiration and by virtue of calling him by his real name.

You have been warned.

MaeveD

Bambi wrote:

Seems as some people brought up aikido against resistant partners...here's a few clips of competition aikido...try spot the difference between this and the 7th dans flipping their uke's (aka the unknown stuntman that makes shihan look so good) around like skittles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmC393TAJA&mode=related&search=

A whole 3 to 8 seconds...woo hoo!!!! If you think Tissier's ukes are falling nicely for him... you should take a trip to Paris and feel it for yourself I've been there many many times and he's the business, the real deal ... and I don't like Tomiki.

....and thanks for the reminder Roper