Continuous Assesment, opinions?

Do you honestly feel you would've done worse or better if the leaving cert was a continously assesed exam?

Do you think that the government should introduce continous assesment to rid people of the stress of 2 years worth of learning crammed into 2 weeks of tests?

Do you feel strongly for or against the leaving cert as is?

Would you prefer us to adopt the approach taken by schools in the US?
or anywhere else?

What changes, if any, would you make to the exam system?

Naikon

I would rid the excessive rote learning to really tell how "good" someone is at a subject.
I would make the exams fairer by weighting more marks to continuous assesment than a single narrow exam "do or die" exam, and i would also try to remove "the hanafin" from any education related issue:D

we could email this link to her known email address if enough people complain
to vent our doubts about the system.......but i highly doubt ANYTHING will be done.
Damm pessemistic attitude:o

We live in hope;)

sorry i didnt follow your answer format but the A-LEVEL sytem ,narrower as it is is FAR superior in terms of education appreciation and retention.

nedward

Naikon wrote:

sorry i didnt follow your answer format but the A-LEVEL sytem ,narrower as it is is FAR superior in terms of education appreciation and retention.

In the UK, they're in the process of revising the whole A-Level curriculum, and bringing in a model based on the French bac. Know why?

Because more students than ever are getting high grades in their A-Levels, but, get this, they're failing miserably in college because they don't have experience of major exams and the pressures they bring. Just so as you know, that's where Hanafin is coming from on this one.

Secondly, the whole notion of continuous assessment. First of all, I think a little continuous assessment would go a long way. In theory, it is a great idea. In practice, hmmm. Think about it. We've all just finished five or six years being taught by semi-literate halfwits who smell of fags. In that time, have you fallen out with any of your teachers? Have some of the tests you handed in came back with a cursory mark, and Jack Daniel's on the back page?

I think continuous assessment is too important a job to leave to teachers. As is correcting exam papers.

It must annoy some of the people on this forum how cynical the Leaving Cert and the Irish educational system as a whole are. For the most part, they are designed by jobsworths, for jobsworths.

Hic

nedward

Deleted User wrote:

Would you prefer us to adopt the approach taken by schools in the US?
or anywhere else?

You did the SAT, you know what I'm talking about. It's extremely fair, but, much more stress than "le bac".

Or so I hear.

Naikon

I understand what you mean but if it is easy to get into education "as a half wit" it further lowers my regard for second level education and while i can totallly relate and understand your point of view i still feel it really shouldent be this way
just so it makes life easier for lazier teachers.
There should be measures like this to weed out the crap.
Obviously not:( NATIONWIDE!
Also i know college is a different story, but many courses still have project work as a backup.(albeit it can be small in certain courses)
but why have to wait a whole year to repeat=lower overheads for dept. of Education
90% for a a1 compares to 70% for a 1.1 degree.
while third level is more involved, i doubt it is as stressfull experience due to maturity,sense of direction,confidence(i have accumilated little of this at school).

I think your opinion is very valid however.

"jack daniels on the back page?")-:):):)

Patricide

I personally think it shouldnt be an s.a.t. style approach, it measures natural ability over how hard you work therefor it is discriminatory against people who may work hard as hell to get 500 points in there leaving. Its because of this that so many peolple going into u.s. colleges drop out, they have the ability but are lazy.

I dunno what a fair system is for the leaving but i know for a fact that the leaving is unfair for people who crack under anxiety and the s.a.t's are unfair against people who work hard but arent naturally super intelligent.I dunno there must be a way but i sure as hell dont know it.

Naikon

this to a certain extent shows "billy" for example his natural limitations and why a degree in financial engineering probably isnt the best idea.
i am not agaisnt working hard but certain jobs just require pure natural ability which sucks but hey thats life:mad:
I can see what you mean however despite my response.
giving a false sense of security by memorizing subjects and not really knowing or understanding them is a flaw in the system.

Raphael

Um...for people saying "the SAT is great!" you don't know the american system as well as you think you do. The SAT results aren't the be all and end all, by any means. You also get marked on every grade you've gotten over the whole of your freshman through to senior years. That's 3rd-6th year. And they also factor in extra curricular stuff, and your essays. Now, that's a lot of stress to, because it means that you have to be at peak performance all year round, for 4 years

Personally, I think that the best way to change the system would be semesterising it. Rather than cover, say, 8 subjects over 2 years then do a massive exam, why not study 4 subjects in 5th year, then do the exams in those, then 4 more subjects in 6th and exams again. Would cut down the stress, potentially spread the exams out, based on your choices, but it wouldn't up the pressure too much

Another system is to do what LCVP and some other subjects do, and let a percentage of the marks go for project work done before the exam. It's very nice to walk into an exam knowing that you've already done 40% of it, in my experience

The US system is too far to the other end of what we have though. It's like saying "Our communist government is terrible. Let's replace it with facism."

herbieflowers

Aren't exams supposed to be stressful? Where's the fun without the stress?!

I dunno, it's produced a generation of well-educated and highly acknowledged, capable students and professionals...

JackKelly

When I did it last year, I thought it was a ridiculous way of determining your future, but looking back, I think it works, and as they say, if it aint' broke don't fix it. I don't know anyone who was particularly shafted by the Leaving Cert. The people who did the work got the marks. I agree that there could be a fair bit of refining and updating with regard course material and structure but i think it works as a whole.

I'm posting this in response to a post yesterday, which i cant find now .

The poster stated that the Leaving cert was flawed because people who did nothing for 1 and a half years, and then crammed for half a year, could still come out with maximum points.

My thoughts on this was that that person is good at working to deadlines, they realise that they don't need to kill themselves for a while, and so coast through 5th year and some of 6th. Then they hit the time the ned to be working, so they give it socks! This was what the poster said was wrong with the leaving cert. That people who could work to their deadline can do far better than people who burn out early.

My opinion is that this person is going to do well regardless of the system, all their plan is, is to figure out the system, and beat it. So with continuous assesment, they simply change tack, to beat the system, and work hard for 2 years. And if we had 4 major sets of exams, they would coast,work, then coast, then work etc..

These are the kind of people who find the back entry into everything, and they do it legitimately.

ThrownAway

nedward wrote:

In the UK, they're in the process of revising the whole A-Level curriculum, and bringing in a model based on the French bac. Know why?

Because more students than ever are getting high grades in their A-Levels, but, get this, they're failing miserably in college because they don't have experience of major exams and the pressures they bring. Just so as you know, that's where Hanafin is coming from on this one.

It doesn't have to be the same way. As Raphael pointed out there's many different types of continuous assesment that can be introduced forget A-levels. If it was 80 per cent CA and 20 per cent exams I'd be happy. I admit exams are important for college but the Irish education system puts too much emphasis on them to the point where it's insane really.

Keanu Steep Nozzle, I think that was my post you're on about. I can see what you're trying to say but I think it's more of being lazy and then panicing at the last minute. That shows my poor planning skills. What if I were doing a job ''ah sure I'll leave it to the last minute'' Who want's an employee with that attitude...

GrumPy

Continuous assesment ftw!!!1

Spending 14 years in school, for ONE exam, that the future of your life depends on, is retarded.

Faerie

I think if our exams were more like College exams, it would greatly reduce the stress.
So instead of having one big exam at the end of the two years, we could do an exam at the end of 5th year and at the end of 6th year on the one year's work. That way we would have the necessary foundations to carry on our subjects in 6th year, but we wouldn't get examined on what we did in 5th year.
You could even go further and include christmas exams in that, so you would basically be examined on the term's work. I think that might be going a bit far though because it would really encourage people to just cram!

I definately don't think the American system would be a good idea. I'm not completely familiar with their system, but I think they base grades on things like attendance and homework, as well as exams and big assignments, so that would mean stress all year round!

I think the main change needed is a serious look at the courses. The Irish course just provokes students to hate their language, and is basically a test of how much you can learn off the night before - even the spelling and grammar, which you could say we've been building on for years, is awarded the smallest amount of marks!
I also think it would be a great idea if the courses weren't so structured, so you could concentrate on the aspects of the course that interest you most. I think History has the right sort of idea with the special topic.

Raphael

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Continuous assesment ftw!!!1

Spending 14 years in school, for ONE exam, that the future of your life depends on, is retarded.

So you'd be comfortable with your 3rd year irish results keeping you out of your college of choice?

Johnner111

Hanafin all the way - she's all for the irish and i think that's great.

Leave the leavin alone. It's horrible but it's character building.

GrumPy

Raphael wrote:

So you'd be comfortable with your 3rd year irish results keeping you out of your college of choice?

yes.

GrumPy

Johnner111 wrote:

Hanafin all the way - she's all for the irish and i think that's great.

Leave the leavin alone. It's horrible but it's character building.

80% CA and 20% exams!! CA is far more fair, exams arn't everything, they are important sure, but TOO important in the irish education system.

Even 50%/50% I'd be happy with.

smemon

don't care, am finished now. no point in saying 'what if'.

continuous assesment is easier so students want it obviously. but now i'm finished, i think it should stay the same purely for the fact that i don't want students getting it handier than i did :cool:

Kwekubo

Irish GrumPy wrote:

80% CA and 20% exams!! CA is far more fair, exams arn't everything, they are important sure, but TOO important in the irish education system.

Even 50%/50% I'd be happy with.

As it stands, you have half the Construction Studies course done before you go into the exam hall - 25% goes for a one-day practical and 25% more for your project. If you've put your work into your project and did ok in the practical, then you have a hell of a lot more breathing space. However the project tends to take bucketloads of time away from your other work, so there is a downside.

eamoss

Kwekubo wrote:

As it stands, you have half the Construction Studies course done before you go into the exam hall - 25% goes for a one-day practical and 25% more for your project. If you've put your work into your project and did ok in the practical, then you have a hell of a lot more breathing space. However the project tends to take bucketloads of time away from your other work, so there is a downside.

Yeah the project in Construction did take a LOT of time away from my other subject work. But for my Geog field study I just took one day off school and went to study hall to get it all done but that was noting compared to my Construction project so it really just depends on the subject!

gaeilgegrinds

Module based continuous assessment, for example (in my own field of Gaeilge) filíocht&prós as a module until Christmas of 5th year. Then a project and exam, 10% each. Same at Summer of 5th year, perhaps creative writing this time (scéal, aiste etc) then the same at Christmas of 6th year (Oral exam) 30% and then a tape exam for 15% and another project on a chosen topic related to stair na Gaeilge for another 15%! That's 100%, of which 30% is Oral and 35% project work but spread out! I think that would work well,no pressure!Ok, well much less than now and much fairer!Any thoughts?

OctavarIan

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Module based continuous assessment, for example (in my own field of Gaeilge) filíocht&prós as a module until Christmas of 5th year. Then a project and exam, 10% each. Same at Summer of 5th year, perhaps creative writing this time (scéal, aiste etc) then the same at Christmas of 6th year (Oral exam) 30% and then a tape exam for 15% and another project on a chosen topic related to stair na Gaeilge for another 15%! That's 100%, of which 30% is Oral and 35% project work but spread out! I think that would work well,no pressure!Ok, well much less than now and much fairer!Any thoughts?

Holy thread resurrection batman!

Really though, continuous assessment would not work at for secondary level education. Teachers bear grudges, they've teacher's pets, not to mention the standard of secondary level teachers is low compared to third level. Even at third level, (in the course I'm doing anyway) the max % for c.a in any one module is 30%. It just wouldn't work for LC. The current system is pretty rough alright, but I think the problem lies more in the irrelevancy of most of the cirriculum rather than workload. If people were studying subjects that were actually useful and held interest to them, then I'm sure they wouldn't be complaining. Third level is where people really get the chance to shine at what they love, but sadly many talented people don't get this chance because they're forced to cram knowledge that means nothing to them in order to get there.

gaeilgegrinds

I don't think the teachers should correct them though, that is one of my points!

miabella

i think being continously assessed puts EXTRA pressure on students.you'd nevr have the chance to chill out.i often lose interest in school for other hobbies.many only gain a real love for education during the leaving cert year and realise they want to go on to college.so L.C exams in 5th year would be mad!:eek:

i find that if i learn something just for the sake of one exam, it never stays in my memory.at least for the leaving cert the constant revision at mocks,christmas and summer tests drills the info in and it stays longer.
a solution would be like to spread english paper 1 and 2 out over 2 days as one day is too much .my hand will be falling off!

plus Continuos assessment would mean a lot of use would be getting better marks(i think)...and so it would be really hard to find a new filter system for college entry.:cool:

Corruptedmorals

I would kill me having to cram every month instead of before the mocks and right before the Leaving (coupled with actual detailed study of course).

But loads of my subjects have marks before you go in...Irish, French, History and Geography. That's about all I can cope with..