Training for marathon.

jbravado

Heya guys-first time poster here go easy!

I am attempting to run the marathon with a freind who did it last year.I have a few questions.

Firstly is it realistic?I am out of shape.I used to swim competivley and until last year trained twice weekly for my Gaa club.Howver last six months Zilch so Im really starting from skratch-Im around 13 stone only 5;9 or so-heaviest I have ever been.How do I go about training for such an event?Health wise are there things I need to consider?Any advice or contributions would be greatly appreciated.Many thanks.

Black Swan

When is this marathon? Months away I would hope! If not, don't!
1. Have you had a medical/physical lately? Would your GP recommend you for a 26.2 mile run?
2. High carb diet when training. Lots of pasta for evening meals. Eat a balanced diet of healthy foods.
3. Stretch before and after training! You could pull something if you don't, and you need the flexibility.
4. Stay hydrated (water)
5. Do you have the right equipment to run (appropriate running shoes, etc.)?
6. How many miles should you run a day while training? Depends on how many months you have to train before the event. Running daily and gradually increasing your distance each week?
7. Do you know the marathon course? Once you have reached the 26.2 mile distance, can you pre-run the actual course without problems?
8. Eliminate unhealthly habits. Stop drinking alcohol, doing drugs, and smoking.
9. You need adequate rest. Everyone is different, but generally an 8 hour night for sleep.

Odysseus

Hi mate, welcome. Firstly I think it is doable if you put the work in and avoid any injuries, however, its not going to be easy. I have no traning links to hand here but I'm sure someone will post some for you. I presum its the dublin marathon your going for? So the end of october is tight as I said, but I have heard of people doing it in less.

My suggestion would be to get out there running and see how you do, I metioned training guides eariler, have a look at as many as you can. I never used them as such, expect to develop my on regime, as I found that worked better for me, especially around my life style. I would say to you aim to be able to run 10 miles by the end of august, and somewhere between 15-20 miles by the end of September. I recommend that anyone doing a marathon for the first time does a couple of 20 milers before hand.

If possible do your training on a mixture of grass and road, but get some long runs on just the road as well. That got me on my first marathon, the impact of all those miles on concret was killing me by the 18 mile mark. No matter was distance I am training for 2 short runs at least 12k and one long run a week does me. However people are different and you will have to adjust things to your body, fitness and your life. Long distance running is a hugh committment.

In term of fitness and diet check out the stickies on the top of the page, loads of excellent info. Best of luck with it mate. Why not keep us informed of how you are getting on.

jbravado

Thanks a million for all the advice and support.Yep its the Dublin Marathon so dont have any time to waste.
Im going to give it my best shot and if it proves impossible so be it.Im starting out with a 4-5 mile run and hopefully I can gradually build this up.I will also be cycling in and out to work 25 minutes apr. each way.
Just starting to realise how tough this is going to be.Ill definitley keep posted on my progress or indeed lack of it!!

Gillo

In previous years Champions sports used to organise training runs, I'm sure it was all just a marketing stunt, but you should try going to them, you may meet a few marathons veterans who can advise you.

I was also gonna say somthing about mental preparation but couldn't actually figure out what I was saying

hunnymonster

Ignore most of what blue lagoon said.

Gillo

hunnymonster wrote:

Ignore most of what blue lagoon said.

Care to expand and actually give some advice

hunnymonster

right. While is is not ideal to go from non-runner to marathoner in 11 weeks, it is possible.
I'll respond to each of the points and hopefully you can get some advice out of this.

1. Unless there is some reason to expect problems there is no reason to have a medical before starting to train. Most GP's would not recommend long distance running in any case because of the strain it imposess on you body, in particular the knee joints. I would however recommend you learn to take your resting heart rate and occassionally take your HR during a run. It will be a good gauge of your increasing fitness and a bench mark so that you do not push it too hard. If you don't know anything about heart rate training let me know and I'll explain the basics.

2. Pasta as an evening meal is probably the worst piece of advice. Yes you need energy foods while running but afterwards you need protein in order to help your body repair and adapt. In particular your case, where you want to lose weights you should be aiming to eat only those carb foods needed to fuel your workouts.

3/ There is a growing amount of research that proves stretching before exercise is a very bad idea. You're muscles are cold at that time. Do a gentle warm up for about 10 minutes, just enough effort to deepen your breathing and then do an initial stretch. Your main stretches should be after your training when your muslces are warm. Learn to stretch properly. There are two main schools of thought on stretching. Sustained or activated. Sustained are the old fashioned ways where you go into the stretch and hold it for a count of 30. Activated stretching involves shorter stretches which are repeated. Whatever you do, do not bounce into the stretch. If you are based in Dublin I am happy to meet you and go through a few with you.

4. Yes you need to stay hydrated. In hot weather you also need to keep your electrolytes topped up (ever got cramp on a run?). As your runs increase in duration you will also need to take carbs on while runnindg. It's not as simple as grabbing a bottle of water on your way out the door. Another albeit much rarer) problem is overhydration. Just be aware that it exists. As a rough rule of thumb, someone your size would expect to take on approx 750 mls per hour of exercise.

5. agree with this one. For your own comfort techincal running gear will be more comfortable and cause less chaffing but more importantly, get the correct shoes. You need running shoes (not cross trainers), you need to get the correct type for your running gait (how your foot lands) and the appropiate amount of cushioning.

6. How many miles you do will depend on so many factors. I'll top out at abour 120 miles a week just before Dublin this year but that level is not appropiate to a beginner. I would suggest that you aim to do about 35-40 miles 3 weeks before the marathon. Of these there should be one long session covering 18-20 miles and the rest are shorter runs. From that you can work bacwards to when you start. Never increase your weekly milage, distance of longest run or speed by more than 10 % in any one week as this leads to a much higer chance of injury. If you have enough time, try to incorporate a "down" week, with reduced milage every month or so as this gives your body and excellent chance to recover.

7. There is no need to run 26.2 miles before race day. In fact, I've never seen a beginner program that incorporates such a silly distance. Above 20 miles your glycogen stores will be used up and these take time to rebuild. You don't want to take a week out of your training just to do this. If you want to drive or cycle the course for confidence then by all means do this. Dublin is a lovely course, not much in the way of hills and the weather should be ideal for running.

8. I've no experience of marathon runners doing drugs so have no advice on that. Smoking will of course be depremental to your lung capacity so not a good idea. Moderate drinking will not affect your marathon. In fact the two fastest marathoners I know enjoy a pint the night before a race as they get a sounder nights sleep afterwards.

9. As said above, everyone is different on the sleep front. As your training ramps up, so will your need for sleep. I would say I needed an extra hour a night when I got fitter.


Above all, enjoy it. The best piece of advice I had before my first marathon was to enjoy it. If you don't have fun, you won't come back to do a second one. The second time out is when I suggest people have a time and performance goal.

jbravado

Hunny-Could you expand on monitoring heart rate in point one and also miles in preparation in point 6.
Clearly if I am to succeed doing this my actual preparation is crucial.How many miles a day should I be running?Should I be doing two runs a day or just one long one?Do I need to take break days to avoid injury etc?
Again thanks for the advice.Geniunly appreciated.

irlirishkev

hunnymonster wrote:

5. agree with this one. For your own comfort techincal running gear will be more comfortable and cause less chaffing but more importantly, get the correct shoes. You need running shoes (not cross trainers), you need to get the correct type for your running gait (how your foot lands) and the appropiate amount of cushioning.

Could you suggest a way to assess one's running gait? I have knee problems when I run over 6 or 7 miles. I'm also training for the marathon, so am trying to rid myself of this factor.

inigo

For miles, i'm following this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-51-0-0-633,00.html

Considering I had never run, not even to take the bus, it is so far doable. I haven't reached the tough part though...

Then I do some yoga for stretching after the runs. Works wonders!

comer_97

it is doable but the short timeframe does increase the chance of injuries. remember to wam up and cool down and stretch and you should keep your injuries to a minimum and good luck!

comer_97

to have your gait checked you can go to a physio who offers that service. but you can have your feet checked in elvery's in Dublin.

hunnymonster

A very crude way to analyse your gait is to wet the soles of your feet and stand on a piece of newspaper. The shape of the footprint gives some clues. Look here for further information.

to work out the milage. Let's say you want to run 40 miles in your top week (I'd advise hitting that 2-3 weeks out from the marathon). Then the week before you can run 40*100/110 i.e. approx 36.5 miles and the week before that approx 33 miles. Your weekly milage should increase by not more than 10 % a week. In addition the long runs should not get longer by more than 10% each week. If your longest run is going to be 20 miles I would suggest something like the following (assuming we've 11 weeks until marathon day)

7, 8, 9, 10 ,12, 14, 15, 16, 18 , 20, 17.5 , 15, race

Even 7 miles this week will feel long if you've never run before. Don't be afraid to walk but always try to start running again. If you don't manage the longer runs there is no reason to think you won't complete the marathon. It will just be more painful on race day.


If at any stage you feel an injury coming on ease up. Better to lose a day or 2 rather than a week or two

comer_97

im having a lot of trouble with orthotics and runners causing injuries, so i would recommend having a professional check your gait!

Holyrood

Hey all- anybody out their training at present for the above Dublin half marathon or marathon. I am finding it tough going first time to do this. Downloaded the training schedule from the dublin city marathon and got to week 5 and burnt out - just to warn anyone going with this schedule don't do what i did and not take any supplements. Since then I have eased up on my schedule at present for the last 2 weeks just to get my self back into training again and I am taking amino energise tablets and protein shakes after long runs. anyone have any recommendations/thoughts/ on how to recover after training really hard doing one long run a week say 90mins run and then every second day during the week your 3mile run in 25mins - then to burn out it is so disheartening but have got myself back up an running again but not sure if I am doing the correct thing in taking these amino energise tablets?

To note am also eating properly, carbs, snacking on bananas, oat bars and making sure I am staying well hydrated minimum 2litres water a day.

Interested in comments. Cheers

Odysseus

Hi mate, I done a few marathons and never experienced that, when you say you burned out could you expand on that a little. The only supplements I take are vits, mins, cod liver oil and glucosamine, others here with more experience with supplements may clarify it, but I personally don't know any runners who take protein shakes. But I been running about four years now and training hard in MA at the same time, never felt the need to go down that road. However, people are different and if they are helping you thats the main thing.

Are you sure your diet is ok, I know I used to think I was eating well, but I have learned a lot from the stickies, well worth checking out.

hunnymonster

are you doing the same thing every week. I don't think this has anything to do with the burn-out problem but it's very bad marathon preparation.


You don't say what your backgroound fitness level and running experience is. If you're completley new to exercise, it's not surprising to hit a burn-out. That you are surprised by it, I take it that you consider yourself pretty fit. if so a couple of things that come to mind
are you getting enough rest?
are you eating at the correct times? No point eating a hit protein meal just before running?
are you running midday when them temps are higher. Some people don't handle the heat well?

crazy days

inigo wrote:

For miles, i'm following this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-51-0-0-633,00.html

Considering I had never run, not even to take the bus, it is so far doable. I haven't reached the tough part though...

Then I do some yoga for stretching after the runs. Works wonders!

I'm gonna train by this training schedule too.
Just started on week 5.

trilo

I am doing the cork ladies mini marathon this week with the gym i go to now and agin..well i try at least 3 times a week for the weights.
i've decided to try joggin teh mini marathon. I've started joggin for example starting with 2 min jog, 2 min walk and gradually building up the length of time jogging and lessen the time walking.
however im so lazy, perhaps bored. i just cant seem to keep motivated. i did a 10 min jog on sunday, however i couldnt gear myself up to do any more. Walking is different i power walk for 4 miles 2-3 times a week and do some weights 1-3 times per week. so i am fairly fit. its just joggin i'm finding it hard to push myself.

Any tips on keeping motivated.
Perhaps i'll just jog/walk it.

hunnymonster

threadmill running is by it's nature boring. While it might be character building, for ejoyment I would try to get outside more. It's summertime so you'll never have better weather than you do now.


BTW, I don't know about the Cork mini-marathon. Could you tell us some more details? Is there a web-site. I'm doing an event on Saturday this weekend, but if it's on Sunday I might make it.

inigo

Running outdoors is the best. One of the main reasons why I run. Have any of you run under the rain? It's fantastic! Yesterday, for example, I went out and started my 5 mile run under the drizzle. Never finished fresher, it felt great!

Now, whether or not I manage to run the Dublin marathon this year, I hope I get fit enough so as to try mountain running. It sounds like so much fun I just have to try it!

crazy days

inigo wrote:

Running outdoors is the best. One of the main reasons why I run. Have any of you run under the rain? It's fantastic! Yesterday, for example, I went out and started my 5 mile run under the drizzle. Never finished fresher, it felt great!

Now, whether or not I manage to run the Dublin marathon this year, I hope I get fit enough so as to try mountain running. It sounds like so much fun I just have to try it!

You should check out the warriors run in sligo if your into running up mountains. Looks like a good pre-marathon race if your up for a challange?

When & Where Is The Warriors Run Held ?

The 22nd Annual Warriors Run will take place on Sunday 27th August 2006 at 3pm starting from the beachfront in Strandhill Village which is approximately 5 miles west of Sligo Town, in the North-West of Ireland.

What Is The Warriors Run ?

The Run is a competitive and gruelling 10 mile road and hill race which takes runners from the beachfront at Strandhill to the top of Knocknarea mountain (1050ft) and back to the beachfront again.:D

http://www.warriorsfestival.com/page11.html

billyhead

Folks,

I am training for the Dublin Marathan and hope to run sub 3 hours . I currently run 35 miles a week, sheduled as a 7 mile run on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and a 14 mile run on Sunday. Fridays a rest day and on Monday and Wednesday I do cross training in the gym i.e rowing, bycycling and step machine. The problem is that over the last week I the sole and top of my left foot is quite sore. Also when I went for a run last night my quad muscle on my left leg was sore also every time I stepped on the leg. I have been doing steches post runs and I do use a quality pair of runners (Asics Kayano). Do you think I should stop running until the pain subsides.

Transform

billyhead wrote:

Folks,

I am training for the Dublin Marathan and hope to run sub 3 hours . I currently run 35 miles a week, sheduled as a 7 mile run on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and a 14 mile run on Sunday. Fridays a rest day and on Monday and Wednesday I do cross training in the gym i.e rowing, bycycling and step machine. The problem is that over the last week I the sole and top of my left foot is quite sore. Also when I went for a run last night my quad muscle on my left leg was sore also every time I stepped on the leg. I have been doing steches post runs and I do use a quality pair of runners (Asics Kayano). Do you think I should stop running until the pain subsides.

Yes and get it checked with your local physical therapist

Odysseus

Just out of interest anyone here doing the Longford half or full marathon?

trilo

hunnymonster wrote:

BTW, I don't know about the Cork mini-marathon. Could you tell us some more details? Is there a web-site. I'm doing an event on Saturday this weekend, but if it's on Sunday I might make it.

it's the ladies mini marathon. heres a link http://www.corkathletics.org/mini_marathon.htm

hunnymonster

Thanks trilo. I'm away that weekend but I'll bookmark it for next year. Good luck with your own training.

trilo

umm the training has gone downhill at the mo, just can't motivate myself these days...i'll have to find someone to drag me out.

hunnymonster

Do the people from the gym go out as a group? Could you join them?

trilo

no they dont go out as a group.. and the girl that used to work there had to leave so i dont know where she stands with the mimi marathon. i'll be meeting up with her this week anyway. but pah! down with been lazy

p.pete

Besides telling me to kop on is there any advice for building up mileage very quickly? I'm running the New Forest marathon in less than 5 weeks and so far (last weekend) I'm up to 20km as my longest run - and it hasn't been a slow and steady build-up to that point.

My plan is to run 25km this weekend, 30km the following and then either 30 again after that or possibly step back to 25km. I'll keep it relatively quiet for the 2 weeks before the marathon then - just try to fit in a few 10/15km runs, which I'm trying to keep doing at the moment also in between the longer runs. In addition I'm doing a small bit of hill work on threadmill once a week as where I run is quite flat.

I've completed two previous marathons in and around the five hour mark but I'd like to try running the whole thing this time As per the first sentence, is there any alterations I could be making to give myself a better chance?

hunnymonster

Ok, you know youreself only runnning less than half the distance 5 weeks before the race is not dieal, but let's work with what we have.

I would suggest you only run 3-4 times a week on a one day one one day off basis. That will allow you to keep to long runs while still allowing your legs adequate rest time. Concentrate on milage. Don't worry about speed at all. On race day, be prepared for pain. If you run the whole way you're going to suffer for a few days after.

p.pete

Cheers, I'm working on the basis of 10km = 1 hour, so fairly slow. Also I'm expecting the pain - main area is probably the hips, they're usually a little tender the day after a long run but nothing serious, just what you'd expect from the abuse

crazy days

My nipples hurt for an hour or so after a jog any advice???
Also my runners have packed it in...in fact one of them has split in two:eek:
What's the best runner to buy?

hunnymonster

Crazy days, Are you a guy or a gal. If a guy, you can buy special nipple plasters that will cover your nips which should solve the problem. Lubing well with vaseline before the run is a cheaper (and messier) alternative.

The best runner/trainer will depend on your running gait (style). Are you in Dublin by any chance? If so you're very much in luck as Arnotts have a gait analysis going on this week. It's run by adidas but don't buy their trainers. Just find out if you are a protonator, neutral runner and what your foot strike is like. Then go and buy a quality runner such as asics or new balance. Expect to pay at least 100 euro (but they are usually greatly reduced in the sales).

crazy days

hunnymonster wrote:

Crazy days, Are you a guy or a gal. If a guy, you can buy special nipple plasters that will cover your nips which should solve the problem. Lubing well with vaseline before the run is a cheaper (and messier) alternative.

The best runner/trainer will depend on your running gait (style). Are you in Dublin by any chance? If so you're very much in luck as Arnotts have a gait analysis going on this week. It's run by adidas but don't buy their trainers. Just find out if you are a protonator, neutral runner and what your foot strike is like. Then go and buy a quality runner such as asics or new balance. Expect to pay at least 100 euro (but they are usually greatly reduced in the sales).

Thanks hunnymonster,

I'll try the plasters they sound better than the vaseline, i'd say vaseline wrecks your cloths.
Where do i buy them?

I'm in Dublin so I might drop into Arnotts tomorrow and find out my gait.

hunnymonster

mm, I'm a girl so a good sports bra works for me. It's my mate uses the plasters. I'll ask him and get back to you. boots would be good place to start. Vaseline does wreck your clothes. An alternative is bodyglide. It's used to put wetsuits on and off and does the same job. Even cheaper is ky jelly. You may have a job explaining why it's in your kit bag but it works really well.

FX Meister

Increasing your milage by 10% a week is the recommended amount.

p.pete wrote:

Besides telling me to kop on is there any advice for building up mileage very quickly?

copacetic

crazy days wrote:

Thanks hunnymonster,

I'll try the plasters they sound better than the vaseline, i'd say vaseline wrecks your cloths.
Where do i buy them?

I'm in Dublin so I might drop into Arnotts tomorrow and find out my gait.

don't bother with the special plasters or even normal plasters (they both fall off after an hour or so) buy micropore tapes in boots or similar, it is only about 2 euro for a roll and it tears easily into the right size strips and sticks totally solid.
try bodyglide instead of vaseline for general chafing too, it is much less gooey and doesn't mark your clothes, can get it is cycle superstore.

p.pete

FX Meister wrote:

Increasing your milage by 10% a week is the recommended amount.

Maximum recommended even as someone who's previously injured their ITB I'm well aware of that

stopgo

hi, a question - do many ppl "mostly walk" the marathon, for instance for charity? If so - how long does it usually take?

daveirl

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Transform

I would say about 5hrs 30mins

Personally do not see the point if people are going to walk all of it - yes i know its for charity and some pople are physically impaired but what an achievement it would be to run/walk or get in under 4hrs

quozl

Transform wrote:

I would say about 5hrs 30mins

Personally do not see the point if people are going to walk all of it - yes i know its for charity and some pople are physically impaired but what an achievement it would be to run/walk or get in under 4hrs

There'll be a fair few runners who won't be getting in under 4hrs.

I wouldn't be bothered to walk it myself but that's because I'm a fairly fit 27 year old.
There's a lot of people out there for whom walking it would be a bigger acheivement than me running it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.