Joining a foreign military

Dave!

Hey folks,

I'm just doin a bit of reading on the Irish Military Online message board, about people serving in foreign armies, especially the British one.

Just wondering what's people's opinions on this...? Do ye consider it a betrayal, because of the history? I suppose that comes down to individuals' politics, really.

Also, wondering what countries allow foreigners to join their army. Is it just a case of the British and Irish having a special relationship because of previous ties, or are they open to other nationalities?

It would be good to serve in a more active army, but at the same time imagine you were sent over to Iraq! I don't know if I'd be able to take fighting in a war I didn't support.

Any thoughts?

Sgt. Sensible

DaveMcG wrote:

I don't know if I'd be able to take fighting in a war I didn't support.

No army needs anyone with an attitude like that.

Dave!

Cheers for your input, maybe stick to the f*cking topic though. I'm sure that you'd open fire on whomever you're told to, and fair play to ye.

[here's your pat on the back BTW]

Bam Bam

Its not a soldiers job to reason why.

Manic Moran

DaveMcG wrote:

Cheers for your input, maybe stick to the f*cking topic though.

He was on the "f*cking topic."

You said that a concern of going to join, say, the US or British Army would be being sent to fight a war you don't support. It happens that US or British foreign policy is different to that of Ireland, so if an Irishman is going to go abroad, he had very quickly get used to the concept of fighting wars that he might prefer not to fight in. Frankly, even if he was in the Irish Army, he might have to face going places he doesn't want to go. It's just a soldier's lot in life. (Witness the good 1LT Watada and the reprecussions of his refusal to go to Iraq last month)

However, there's not much issue in it. Ireland has a long and great tradition of the Wild Geese: People, such as myself, who go off to other countries and join their armies. I think it's because Ireland hasn't really had a good war on its own, and goes off to fight in other wars for the sake of a good punch-up. Frequently on both sides of the same war!

The British Army is more welcoming than most of Irish soldiers, even allowing Irish citizens to be commissioned officers. I presume they still have to take an oath to the Queen, mind. Still, the history has never proven to be too much of a bother: Irish people have found the British to be really a lot closer to Irish than most countries, and many tens of thousands of the Free State and Republic's men have fought for the British Crown. (In WWII there was a cartoon of two British soldiers in a Normandy foxhole with bullets whizzing over their heads. Caption: "Sure, you can say what you like about DeValera, Seamus, but at least he kept us out of this war")

The US Army is open to all legal residents regardless of nationality, though any position requiring a security clearance, including all commissioned officers, requires US citizenship.

And anyone without a serious criminal record can join a Foreign Legion, the most famous of which, of course, is French.

NTM

Moriarty

The british armed forces have special exemptions for irish citizens to join. Intrestingly enough, the irish have a number of expemptions for positions across UK society that would usually require UK or commonwealth citizenship. One example is politics - you can run for election to westminister as either a UK or irish citizen. When we decided to leave the commonwealth, special arrangements were made so that irish citizens would still have most of the same rights of other commonwealth citizens.

To join the army/navy/air force as a solider you'd need to be one of the following -

• A British citizen
• A citizen of the British dependent territories
• A British overseas citizen
• A British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981
• A citizen of an independent Commonwealth country
• A British Protected Person
• A citizen of the Irish Republic

There are tighter restrictions on officer entry - only UK, commonwealth or Irish republic citizenship will be accepted for this, and you have to be resident in the UK for 5 years before you apply.

For specific career paths inside the military (mostly the intelligence side afaics), only UK citizens can apply.

ArphaRima

Also, for certain disciplines, you will be restricted in your job. For example as a pilot, in the US, you would not be allowed to fly any aircraft that is capable of carrying a nuclear weapon. And you'd be surprised just how many are!

As for the topic, I considered it myself and never had to make the decision in the end. It was a tough call though. I know that half my extended family would likely disown me if I joined the British armed forces. It wasnt going to stop me.

I don't know if I'd be able to take fighting in a war I didn't support.

I dont know if I could either. But there are thousands of men fighting in Iraq for a president they despise, for a cause they dont believe in. I dont fault them for it.

Dub13

I actually went through the whole selection process for the British armed forces as at the time (mid/late 90s) it was very hard to get into the Irish Army as they were only taken people on sporadically,and ever then they were getting 1000s of applicant's for not many position's.

My father had severed with the Royal Dragoon Guards and was fully supportive,but other family members were lets say not over the moon.The selection process is a lot longer for a citizen of the Irish Republic understandably so if you remember what was going on up the north back then.The process went on for a good 6 month's with a couple of trips to various British bases in this time the Irish Army started a recruitment drive so I sent of an application.

I ended up being accepted into both and got notified within 2 days of each other.It was one of these strange moments life sends you every once and a while,I was at a very important junction in my life and it was a very hard decision to make.I ended up enlisting in the Irish Army,I often think back and wounder how different my life would have been if I went down the other path.One thing for sure my life wound have been immensely different two what it is now.

Ichiro

Interesting thread.

I myself am looking to join the Royal marines.
Though am struggling to get in contact with them,
have tried the phone no. on the site and tried emailing.

Can anyone help with my query?

Thanks

Ichiro

Dub13

Ichiro wrote:

Can anyone help with my query

PM Sent.

Millionaire

I lived in canada in late 80s early 90s, and I got canadian citizenship, I went to join the canadian army for officer cadet entry. I only wanted to do infantry work, and final goal of their airborne commando reg. Half way through the application process, the put a freeze on recruitment for infantry, and suggested i come back next year, and try of a different job within it. I actually did not bother again, as I had heart set on infantry.

I came home and went for Irish Cadets, and failied the final eye sight exam by a tiny amount. back then they only took about 40 cadets, and over 4000 people applied each year! that was a real disappointment missing out on that one!

Dub13

If got into the Canadian Airborne Regiment back then you could have been with them for one of the Canadian Forces darkest hours,anybody who is not aware look up The Somalia Affair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_Affair

Millionaire

Dub13 wrote:

If got into the Canadian Airborne Regiment back then you could have been with them for one of the Canadian Forces darkest hours,anybody who is not aware look up The Somalia Affair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_Affair

It was around the time of the Somalia affair, now that you reminded me, thats why they halted recruitment!!!!!

though you could not join airborne direct, you had to do 3 years infantry first.

The canadian recruitment officers, they recruit for all 3 divisions army, navy etc, and they will try and funnel you into the area where they need bodies in. so for example if I went back the following year as told to, and wanted infantry, they might try and push you into the navy.

Fenian

My uncle joined the British Army in the late 70's. He had an awful time over there. Said the Brits treat the Irish like s hit. Maybe that has changed now. If your looking to join a foriegn army, join the French Foriegn Legion, your more than likely going to see combat of some sort without disgracing your family or betraying your ancestors.

Dub13

Fenian wrote:

If your looking to join a foriegn army, join the French Foriegn Legion, your more than likely going to see combat of some sort

This is simply not true,The Legion are not seen much action these days were the Brits and Yanks are seen a lot.

thesweeney

Speaking from myself. I hope to join either the air corp(raf) or army as a Rotary Pilot. More than likely army.Im still at university now so maybe when my time comes to join, I will join the Irish. As Ireland dont have combat Helicopters Im left with the choice of going abroad or fly a different machine. I'd rather fly what I want. I would love to join my own countries Military service as I think we are fantastic but it wont happen.
I personally dont think it's betrayal at all, sure dont we have the Irish guards over there?!
To join some other countries military services you either need a passport of that country or a reference from your own countries minister of defence as far as I know.
To be honest with ya you have the wrong attitude if your only joining so you can join an 'Active' army. Ireland has a fantastic army and they do a lot of good work. I dont understand why you want a more 'active' army yet you dont like the thoughts of going to Iraq. Maybe you should join the fca or otc...

thesweeney

Ichiro wrote:

Interesting thread.

I myself am looking to join the Royal marines.
Though am struggling to get in contact with them,
have tried the phone no. on the site and tried emailing.

Can anyone help with my query?

Thanks

Ichiro

0845 607 5555 information number for rm.
I know there some guys up here in Belfast who are personal trainers now, but were once royal marines and train fellas who want to join. Help you with your endurance and for your fitness tests etc ya know.
I have a number of somewhere you can call in belfast if that helps...have to find it first

Clare gunner

Other countries that allow non nationals to join;
French Leigion
Spanish Leigion
USA [was a prerequsite for citizenship awhile back]
Croatia[when it had an international brigade]

Flying

Ichiro wrote:

Interesting thread.

I myself am looking to join the Royal marines.
Though am struggling to get in contact with them,
have tried the phone no. on the site and tried emailing.

Can anyone help with my query?

Thanks

Ichiro

Give me a shout I have contacts in The RM, I am ex- 3rd BN Parachute Regiment, did time with those guys, tough bunch and good soldiers.

Also Look up Palace Barracks ACIO in Hollywood in Belfast you should get info from them as they Recruit for Army,Air Force,Navy and Marines there

Flying

Clare gunner wrote:

Other countries that allow non nationals to join;
French Leigion
Spanish Leigion
USA [was a prerequsite for citizenship awhile back]
Croatia[when it had an international brigade]

Spainish Legion have not accepted foriegn recruits in about 15 years it is now all Spainish.

US, you need a Green Card.

Croatia, they were mercenaries joining most were removed after the war because of Maverick Tactics.

Flying

Dub13 wrote:

This is simply not true,The Legion are not seen much action these days were the Brits and Yanks are seen a lot.

On the Contrary the Legion are operating Heavily within Africa and also Afghanistan with ISAF.

Unofficially there are FFL Members in Iraq, I met two "Working" with the Italians when I was there in 2004 !

Flying

Dub13 wrote:

I actually went through the whole selection process for the British armed forces as at the time (mid/late 90s) it was very hard to get into the Irish Army as they were only taken people on sporadically,and ever then they were getting 1000s of applicant's for not many position's.

My father had severed with the Royal Dragoon Guards and was fully supportive,but other family members were lets say not over the moon.The selection process is a lot longer for a citizen of the Irish Republic understandably so if you remember what was going on up the north back then.The process went on for a good 6 month's with a couple of trips to various British bases in this time the Irish Army started a recruitment drive so I sent of an application.

I ended up being accepted into both and got notified within 2 days of each other.It was one of these strange moments life sends you every once and a while,I was at a very important junction in my life and it was a very hard decision to make.I ended up enlisting in the Irish Army,I often think back and wounder how different my life would have been if I went down the other path.One thing for sure my life wound have been immensely different two what it is now.

The Irish Army IMHO is Securicor with Guns, From Serving in Kosovo with them, they seem to think Oversea's is a big drinking binge.

They did it in Somalia,Bosnia,The Leb and so on, most lads I had in the regiment were yellow packs that basically said the army here was not as such an army but more a "Job".

The Irish Army today is to politically correct and gone right down the tubes, my father who is retiring soon as a BSM in the PDF has also commented that the level of induviudal joining now is both weak and spoilt and is true what they say "You measure a countries strength and weakness's on its army!"

Eyeohn

This thread got me interested in the topic and so I did a little googling and I am now considering joining the French Foreign legion. Any one have any experiences with them? I'm not just going to jump into something but certainly would like to hear what people have to say about them on here.

Manic Moran

Flying wrote: »

The Irish Army today is to politically correct and gone right down the tubes, my father who is retiring soon as a BSM in the PDF has also commented that the level of induviudal joining now is both weak and spoilt and is true what they say "You measure a countries strength and weakness's on its army!"

In fairness, the old guard of the US Army were saying the same thing of recruits five years ago. "Basic Training has gotten weak. Troops come from the outside world knowing nothing of the outdoors and doing no exercise more strenuous than clicking a mouse. They are coddled. They could never handle a war."

The current generation of soldiers seems to have rather surprised them in action.

NTM

MajorMax

I served in the 2nd battalion 5th marines USMC in the late eighties, got out on a medical due to a training accident, biggest disappointment of my life, I was going to do my 20 retire at 38 and join the washington state Police, they love ex devil-dogs

Cato

Eyeohn wrote: »

This thread got me interested in the topic and so I did a little googling and I am now considering joining the French Foreign legion. Any one have any experiences with them? I'm not just going to jump into something but certainly would like to hear what people have to say about them on here.

Find a book called "Hidden Solider" its about Padraig O'Keefe from cork who documented his joining of the Legion all the way to being the last survivor on the biggest ambush on Security contracted convoy in Iraq, i would imagine it would be a good read for someone interested about joining, and giving you a glimpse of what its about, according to him its changed alot in the past few years...

zig

Eyeohn wrote: »

This thread got me interested in the topic and so I did a little googling and I am now considering joining the French Foreign legion. Any one have any experiences with them? I'm not just going to jump into something but certainly would like to hear what people have to say about them on here.

Heres a thread including a link to an online book about a guys time in the FFL. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054948427&highlight=french+foreign+legion

interesting stuff

and the book, http://www.troon-promotions.com/ntd.htm

headzilla

I came across some foreign legion troops in a bank (bayonne France) the other day, there's an Air Force base in my town which must have a contingent of them, very impressive characters, they definitely turned a few heads

Pathfinder

headzilla wrote: »

I came across some foreign legion troops in a bank (bayonne France) the other day, there's an Air Force base in my town which must have a contingent of them, very impressive characters, they definitely turned a few heads

High rates of desertion, 1 in 5 every year, which obviously means moral can't be all that, lots of petty theft according to former members.

Don't dispute the uniforms are impressive, or that there basic training is renowned for how challenging it is.

Curiously in WWII part of the Legion was loyal to the Free French movement, yet another part was loyal to the Vichy government.

In the 50s 2 REP (Paras) were made up of ex SS, who fought so valiantly at Dien Bien Phu.

In the 80s 2 REP was made of largely of ex British Paras who joined after defence cuts.

The culmination of their basic training to win the Kepi Blanc is the 60km march.

They also have an impressive assault course out in French Guyana.

headzilla

On the contrary i didnt base the standard of their uniforms on how impressed i was by them, What threw me was how polite they were and how they carried themselves,
In regards to the desertion rate, the foreign legion is not set up like for eg. the Irish Army where if your not coping with your recruit training you can pack it in, You cant do that in the legion so obviously the only option available is to run, Petty theft can be associated with most Armies, it makes sense with the legion considering the potentiel shady pasts of some of its recruits.

CCCP^

I remeber watching a documentary on RTE about Soldiers from the Irish Republic serving in the British military, it was very interesting. I thought about joining the army before, and also thought about joining the US Marines, but I wouldn't be able to hack it. I don't like killing people, getting up early in the morning or being shouted at. If I had to defend my home and my family or community, I would....but its not at stake. For me atleast, I made the right decision.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Flying wrote: »

The Irish Army today is to politically correct and gone right down the tubes, my father who is retiring soon as a BSM in the PDF has also commented that the level of induviudal joining now is both weak and spoilt and is true what they say "You measure a countries strength and weakness's on its army!"

In one respect thats true.

Todays recruits are 'molly coddled' through training in so far as their training NCO's can't 'put the boot in' like we had it. To anyone who trained 'in the overalls' recruits have it handy with comfortable DPM's from the start, their PT is more structured and seem's easier etc.. But I honestly believe they're coming out better trained although not better soldiers!!!!.

When I passed out as a 3star private I hadn't a clue how to read a map, lead a section in attack or knew what a patrol harbour was (just to give a tiny exampe), but todays recruits have all that, but because they're 'molly coddled' they're attitude stink and they don't seem to have any pride in what they've just achieved (passing out as a private soldier).

In the last few year's that attitude has passed into the junior NCO ranks as they've come through the same system and went onto do their NCO course's without an attitude adjustment.

As regards lads having the attitude ''its just a job'', I think we can blaim the new contract on that as when I joined I knew I was in for the twenty one year's come what may. The 'five year' merchants (as your father might also call them) don't have that.

Its also very hard to lose recruits from basic training now without having to consider things like 'are they going to sue for bullying etc, same with NCO courses so we're left with a lot of 'dead wood'.

But alas, my time is up now. Its a new army now, changes are happening fast and someone else's problem, shortly it'll all become a memory and be Mister Mairt again

Lockstep

I heard somwhere (can't remember where:() that todays kids have an advantage over past soldiers as so many of them have a tiny idea of what might be a good option due to video games.


I know, I know. Real combat is absolutely nothing like video games but it does contain some of the most basic: using cover, the necissity of working as a team, that running in guns blazing on your own will get you wasted etc.


Such advantages are small and likely to go out the window once the soldier sees real combat but at least they have a fraction of an advantage in that respect.

Please dont jump down my throat here folks, I have NO combat or military experience just repeating what I heard.

Usual Disclaimer for my posts on the military forum: I am no expert whatsoever, don't take my words as truth, it's usually just hearsay.


As for pride in your country: I am extremely proud to be even going for a physical for the Irish Reserves. Basically, when I first got interested in the reserves I sat down and thought about where would be my strengths. I did have the usual teenager Walter Mitty fascination with guns but given that I place a high value on human life and am of a compassionate nature, I would be best suited for the medics. Personally I think that's the corps I would be at my most motivated and given that I know a bit of first aid from work.

I was really fired up about the fitness test, got in much better shape as a result only to find out there ISN'T a fitness test. Ah well, I can't complain.


The idea of being a 3* private, even in the reserves is a soruce of pride to me. Only problem I might have is that a friend of mine at the barracks warns me that the medics are mostly giggly girls with a few guys who spend their time trying to impress the girls. I'll probably come off as a stiff given that I really want to do my best in this.
Ah well, I'm sure I can find a way to work with the group as well as pulling my weight.

Manic Moran

I know, I know. Real combat is absolutely nothing like video games but it does contain some of the most basic: using cover, the necissity of working as a team, that running in guns blazing on your own will get you wasted etc.

There's been quite a move of late to what are known as 'serious games'. These are generally off-the-shelf pieces of software which have been adapted slightly for use in military training. One of the earliest examples of this was Marine Doom, from way back when: It was a mod of the original Doom. The current 'standard' for infantry simulation is VBS, though it's generally out of the price range of the casual gamer. The more 'hi-tech' the situation being simulated, the better the simulation is suited for training. Steel Beasts started out life as a commercial game, before militaries around the world realised it was a stupidly cheap simulator which would do 95% of what their multi-million-dollar simulators would do. I basically learned to tank by playing a computer game: Tank school was a breeze, and I still knew more from the game than I did from the school. At the higher end of the spectrum are operational level games, such as Harpoon or Armored Task Force, used for more senior officers.

A corollary to this is that modern weapon design is incorporating Generation X-Box features. The gunner's controller on the Challenger 2 tank, or Centauro AFV would be instantly usable to someone used to a two-hand-controller using a thumb-stick for direction, and the other fingers for system manipulation. Add the X-Box-like controller to the fact that you're basically just looking through a computer monitor, and the differences between playing a game and actual combat really become a minor.

NTM

Pathfinder

headzilla wrote: »

On the contrary i didnt base the standard of their uniforms on how impressed i was by them, What threw me was how polite they were and how they carried themselves,
In regards to the desertion rate, the foreign legion is not set up like for eg. the Irish Army where if your not coping with your recruit training you can pack it in, You cant do that in the legion so obviously the only option available is to run, Petty theft can be associated with most Armies, it makes sense with the legion considering the potentiel shady pasts of some of its recruits.

I was talking about the desertion rate of the regular legion, not just recruits.

Those who have served and I have spoken with have told me petty theft is an epedemic.

I have also seen them close up close in Bosnia.

In terms of 'merecenary' military units I rate Ghurka infantrymen as better soldiers.

Infact, can you name one campaign, (bar Gulf War 1)or action the Legion has won battle honours in since WWII ?

damien c

hi am im 16 at the moment and im deciding to join up with the us army in a couple of years time im not really sure about the requirements to join but id rather join that army than the irish army because the us are in the middle of the action down in afghanistan which id rather if any1 has any info plz tell me

ArphaRima

Finish school. Go to college. Join the British Army as an officer if you are going to join an armed forces and want combat action.

That way you have a career, will gain the best skills, and have the highest chance of survival..

Joining the Americans as a squaddie is not a great idea imho.

Manic Moran

fluffer wrote: »

Joining the Americans as a squaddie is not a great idea imho.

Depends on what he wants to do. If he's eligible for entry in the US military, there are a hell of a lot of benefits applied to veterans in this country. For example, I'm going to upgrade my private pilot's certificate to IFR, Commercial, Commercial Multi-Engine and hopefully (if I've time) CFI. That's a stupidly expensive process, but Uncle Sam is going to pay for over half of it because I'm a veteran.

I'm also looking into a new house. Uncle Sam is going to guarantee a portion of the mortgage on my house, no down payments required. Because I'm a veteran. And so on and so forth. I don't think the British have that level of benefit.

NTM

iceage

You can sing that MM. The guys gonna need a green card to get in though is'nt that correct? How easy or difficult is it now to get one of these today?

who the fug

Pathfinder wrote: »

Infact, can you name one campaign, (bar Gulf War 1)or action the Legion has won battle honours in since WWII ?

Algeria
Vietnam
Chad
Couple in West Africa

p1akuw47h5r3it

Sgt. Sensible wrote: »

No army needs anyone with an attitude like that.

I've heard stories of soldiers in the British Army questioning the reasons surrounding the war in Iraq around the time the war was declared.

Personally if I was in that situation I would go even if I didn't think it was justifiable (to an extent) as it would be my job.

airvan

He's 16 and hasn't a clue. Wants to become a soldier to go away and fight in a war. Maybe MM, you should clue him in? Bit of a reality check is needed.

In any case he won't be able to join the US army without a green card which he won't get anytime soon. So if he wants to be in a war it'll have to be in the British army.

Kid: War is nothing like those playstation games you know!:rolleyes:

Manic Moran

He's only a year off from enlisting age. (17 w/ parental permission). I think it's a bit of a disrespect to ignore the fact that 16-year-olds are capable of making a few rational decisions.

That said, Damien, do bear in mind the old adage 'be careful what you wish for'.

NTM

pablomakaveli

I'm considering joining the British Army or maybe the French Foreign Legion.

I've done a fair bit of research into the FFL over the years but have only been considering the British Army since quite recently.

When i was younger i would never have even entertained the idea of joining the BA but as im now older and have matured i see it as a viable option if i want to become a soldier. I don't really think any family or friends would disown me if i did either.

I would'nt rule out joining the Irish army but i've heard they aren't recruiting at the moment so the FFL and BA may prove better alternatives.

Zambia

damien c wrote: »

hi am im 16 at the moment and im deciding to join up with the us army in a couple of years time im not really sure about the requirements to join but id rather join that army than the irish army because the us are in the middle of the action down in afghanistan which id rather if any1 has any info plz tell me

Fluffer is right. Get as much education in as you can. Forget the US Army unless you have rights to live and work there.

airvan

I think it's a bit of a disrespect to ignore the fact that 16-year-olds are capable of making a few rational decisions.

LOL, that's not the problem. It's the irrational decisions you make as a 16 year old that are the problem.

In any case it's academic as he won't be getting into the US army anytime soon.

twinytwo

airvan wrote: »

He's 16 and hasn't a clue. Wants to become a soldier to go away and fight in a war. Maybe MM, you should clue him in? Bit of a reality check is needed.

In any case he won't be able to join the US army without a green card which he won't get anytime soon. So if he wants to be in a war it'll have to be in the British army.

Kid: War is nothing like those playstation games you know!:rolleyes:

what not grow up a little yourself?:rolleyes:

airvan

twinytwo wrote: »

what not grow up a little yourself?:rolleyes:

You mean 'Why' don't you? Perhaps you'd like to elaborate and help me grow up instead of being smart about it?

gun8

Foreign citizens can join:
the French Foreign Legion with a valid passeport,
the US military with a greencard,
the Canadian military with perm residency,
the Danish military with some knowledge of language,
the Czech military with knowledge of language & renouncing home country citizenship,
the Belgian military after being naturalized after 3 years(2 years if you renouce your home country citizenship) & speak Dutch,French,or German,
the Netherlands military after 3 years & rnoucing of home citizenship & knowledge of Dutch,
the Spanish Legion if your from Spain or a latin american country or hold a residency card for Spain,
the Argentine military if speak Spanish,
the Paraguayan military if speak Spanish,
the Austrailian military with residency,
the New Zealand military with residency,
the Maylaysian military with knowledge of Malay language,
the UK military if your from one of the commonwealth countries or Nepal,
the German military with residency & knowledge of German,
the Hungarian military after 1 year with proof of Hungarian ancestry-5 year after rnoucing home country citizenship-8 years normally & language knowledge,
the Lithuanian military with knowledge of language and renouciation of old citizenship,
the Austrian, Swiss, and Polish militaries require citizenship.


thats all the ones i know of that i have considered/researched joining (was US Army Infantry already-can't go back in do to certain political shifts)

Silent Runner

The US military would be pretty much out of the question, a green card is hard to get, its a lottery system.

minidazzler

Silent Runner wrote: »

The US military would be pretty much out of the question, a green card is hard to get, its a lottery system.

Unless you marry a citizen!