Budget 6-8k, engine 1.6, mission find me a car

Newcarneeded

I'm 22 turning 23 and have a few years named driver experience so my insurance seems to be grand for a 1.6

I want to stend between six and eight thousand, although the lower the better, on a car. There are the usual suspects, focus, golf, octavia, leon, corolla etc to consider in a 1.4.

However, I think that if i move up a class from focus/golf territory to mondeo, passat, primera and vectra land I'll get more car for my money. It seems to be that there are many 1.6 cars around with about 50k on the clock and I'm thnking of getting one of these because they'll be slightly roomier, and seem to have a better spec.

I posted here a few weeks ago saying i was thinking of a vectra and was warned off owing to watercooler pumps driven by engine belts failing regularly and aircon issues too but I do think the vectra is a handsome car.

Does anyone have any personal experience of the mondeo,good bad or indifferent in terms of reliability?

Another i am considering is a primera. These seem to be plentiful and there does seem to be a decent choice with fairly good spec.

I am looking for reliability first, as after buying the car i don't want to get hit with expensive servicing or expensive faults to repair.

After that then spec is important.

Also, anybody who has owned a toledo, primera, mondeo, vectra please feel free to comment on mpg you got back and anything at all that went wrong.

crosstownk

Newcarneeded wrote:

Another i am considering is a primera. These seem to be plentiful and there does seem to be a decent choice with fairly good spec.

I am looking for reliability first, as after buying the car i don't want to get hit with expensive servicing or expensive faults to repair.

The Primera is probably the best option - you'll get much better value for money because for some reason nobody wants them. The resale value is terrible - so you should get one cheap. We had 2003 Primera Autos for sale in work last year for €8,000 with about 30k on the clocks. They took so long to sell. (being auto didn't help matters).

As your buying 2nd hand then the previous owner has taken the depreciation hit, hopefully. Petrols are very reliable, but there is an issue with turbochargers in the diesel versions and, afaik, there is no solution yet except replacing the turbo with a similar unit that will probably give the same trouble. I've a Primera TD that is now on its 3rd turbo:eek:

Spitfire666

the octavia is a great car too. the same car as the passat just cheeper. we've had about 6 of them in my family and they were all trouble free. we had the 1.9TD version though so not sure what the 1.6 petrol is like.

crosstownk

Spitfire666 wrote:

the octavia is a great car too. the same car as the passat just cheeper.

Sort of - but not really. The Octavia is based on the Golf chassis, so the Octavia is more like an oversized VW Bora.

But they are very reliable and should be on your list - but as confidence continues to grow in the Skoda brand, resale values are getting better and better.

Henry Ford III

Buy a 1.6 Focus Zetec.

pclancy

Bit below your budget but just bought a 99 primera for €4000, 89K, 1.6 loaded with extras and lovely to drive.

Try www.cbg.ie and www.carzone.ie maybe.....

qazz

Try Laguna I. http://carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=439614
I have one from 98 with 69k on the clock. It's very comfortable and dynamic. Petrol consumption is low too. It's about 8 litres/ 100km. Boot is big. you can't get in in focus. I have her since march, I'm driving a lot and there is no problem with anything. Just like all cars - make sure tbelt is ok, oil, etc...
And you can get 98 instead of 00 for about 3k.

ninty9er

Don't know if you're looking for a minimum age but go for a decent car if at all possible that will always have some value. Don't see a location so I'm presuming Dubl

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=410342

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=465399

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=372205

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=474325

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=462678

colm_mcm

I'd go with a 1.6 Focus. (hatchback obviously!)

Cyrus

yeah id concur with focus, a car like a passat with a 1.6 engine is silly, ireland is one of the few countries with a market

get a good spec tho, dont settle there should be loads

HashSlinging

I'm considering selling my Seat Leon 1.6 (16v), in getting an early service today actually.

carzone.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=328375

Newcarneeded

Thanks for the replies.

I want to get the lowest mileage newest car for the money. Audi A4 seems good but with 90k on the clock i'd be worried about minor things going which would require trips to a dealer. Currently insured on a VW Golf which is serviced by a main VW dealer and their prices are astonishing.

Audi presumably would be more expensive.

As regards a Renault, not sure on French reliability. May well be majestice for eighty minutes and then stitch you with a headbutt to the chest, just for a few insulting words.

I like Vectras have to say. Dad had one before, 99, CD spec ex demo and it was very nice. I like the shape and they are available with good spec. Only thing is i've had posters on this site say that they are troublesome. Belts running water pumps in the engine prone to snapping.

Anyone any comments on the Vectra?

The Primera seems to have nothing but good praise from owners. Granted, it's a dull shape, but seemingly a decent drive with good specced models available. Fits nicely into my budget too.

Seat Leon, nice car, love the shape. But at 8k for a 01, iI know i could get a 01/02 Primera with less mileage for about 1500 less. Same applies to a Focus. Great cars I'd like to own but they're dearer for the same age and mileage. Which is what attracted me up into Vectra/Primera land.

Slightly larger car, similar engine, broadly similar running costs, higher spec for less money.

So any other advice on Vectra, Primera, Mondeo???

Henry Ford III

In a 1.6 all are significantly underpowered.

That size of engine best suits a slightly smaller lighter car.

Mondeo's (since 2000) are all 1.8 and the LX is 110 bhp. Detuned and a poor performer tbh. The Zetec 1.8 has 125 bhp and is very noiceably livelier.

Vectras are a poor car. Residuals prove that.

Primeras are better but still not hectic.

TempestSabre

I've a Primera GT. The thing to watch on primeras is the control arm bushings. Seem to need changing on a regular basis. And you need to change the whole arm when you do it. Seems to be a common problem on them all.

Oh and Nissan dealers are rubbish.

BrianD3

Have you considered an old model Renault Megane saloon with the 1.4 16v engine
-quite reliable, possibly more so than a same year Laguna.
-fairly spacious for passengers and huge boot (bigger than most cars in Mondeo class)
-very good comfort and spec. Go for an RXi or Dynamique model
-much livelier engine than a 1.4 Focus or Golf. Also very good economy from this engine, I can get >50 mpg average without even trying to drive economically

Downsides: good spec means there can be a lot to go wrong. Timing belt replacement on this engine is probably more expensive than average for the class. Ignition coils fail quite often.

TempestSabre

I think a Mondeo is a good alrounder. Decent drive, not expensive to fix, not overpriced and a good few around.

Henry Ford III

BrianD3 wrote:

Have you considered an old model Renault Megane saloon..

Ah come off it. They are rubbish. A Renault or any other French car will be as reliable as a drunk in a vat of cider.

crosstownk

Laguna II is so unrleiable - but the Laguna I is not so bad, imo. Cheap as dirt too..............

Newcarneeded

What sort of economy could i expect from a 1.8 mondeo or primera?

I would like a zetec focus but they're a lot dearer for the same age spec level as certainly a primera, a mondeo seems to be more expensive.

Insurance jumps 300euro from a 1.6 to a 1.8 Plus tax is what, about 500 as opposed to 350/400 on a 1.6???

So the extra cost is about 400euro for tax and insurance before i put a drop in the tank.

What sort of economy do you think i'd get then? First car of my own so don't want it to be drinking juice. As no one really wants these size cars when they get to this age i'll pretty much be stuck with it or have to discount heavily to sell

Henry Ford III

Depends almost totally on where and how you drive.

Think 30 - 35 mpg in real life mixed driving.

wingnut

Have a Mondeo, will get another one, no question. Not the most fuel efficient (and I'm only driving the 1.6). I would not consider it underpowered at all (Its a Mark 2 obviously). When I was buying it, similar priced focuses were a year older with higher milage and no nice extras like aircon, 4 wheel disc ABS, alloys, spoiler etc. It is soo comfortable and a absolute please to drive. Drove similar cars like the Passat, nowhere near as nice. Over two years I put up plenty of miles and its only need the annual service.

bazz26

Seat Leon 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=346039

The Leon is based on the VW Golf but represents better value and has more standard kit. Prettier than a Golf imo. Also available in 1.4 litre.

Toyota Avensis 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=471752

The Avensis back then had a lean burn engine which while not the most powerful it was very economical. High mileage is no problem with these cars and the above one even has a years NCT, alloy wheels and air conditioning. 88k miles is not alot on a 7 year old car.

Ford Mondeo 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=423999

If 1.6 is your limit then the pre 2001 Ford Mondeo is another choice. Most at that time come with alloy wheels and air conditioning.

Ford Focus 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=436416

The Focus is more modern than the above Mondeo and the saloon is just as roomy, not as pretty as the hatchback but is cheaper to buy. The 1.4 litre Focus is slugish so a 1.6 is better suited. Try and find a hatchback.

Skoda Octavia 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=474019
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=437983

Again like the Leon this is based on the Golf but alot cheaper, roomier and better equipped. Alot of car for the money. Avoid the basic model though.

Nissan Primera 1.6:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=470519

The Primera probably represents the best value for this size car. They depreciate like a stone but the previous owners will have taken most of the hit by now. Will not set the world on fire in 1.6 litre but they are well built, have lots of standard features such as cd changer, sunroof, etc. This will probably be the newest car you will get for your budget. Try and get one from a garage as the trade hate them, they usually try and sell them cheaper to move them on.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote:

Ah come off it. They are rubbish. A Renault or any other French car will be as reliable as a drunk in a vat of cider.

And I suppose this opinion is based on years of owning French cars? :rolleyes:

So what would you recommed instead of a Renault, wouldn't be a FORD by any chance? It's quite laughable how biased posters in this forum are.

Henry Ford III

I'd be happy to recommend a Skoda, Seat, VW, Audi, BMW, Opel, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, or even a Ford. Perhaps others too.

Everyone of them will be more reliable than a Renault or Peugeot. Dodgy electrics and **** build quality come as standard on those.

breanoh

Fix Or Repair Daily. never had any meas in the FORDs, or Opels for that matter. my family has never been without a Renault on the drive, and we have also had a few Peugeots and NEVER had trouble, I drive a 20 year old Renault which has given hassle free driving, so don't diss the Renault!

Henry Ford III

J.D Power's 2004 survey would disagree.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=207800&EL=3060983

The worst rated 3 cars in thi segment are all French. The Laguna is last and has it own sub class.

In fact out of 120 cars rated Scenic was 67th, Megane 77th, Clio 91st, Pug 306 92nd, Pug 406 94th, Pug 206 95th, Laguna 110th, Pug 307 118th, and Espace 119th.

I rest my case.

breanoh

That is 2004, since Renault went all high tec nuts! The older Renaults are the best cars on the road, I wouldn't touch any of the keycard renaults. Just a word of warning on the Avensis, don't touch the MK1 vvti, they have gone through engines like a fat chick goes through chocolate bars!

comanche

Henry Ford III wrote:

J.D Power's 2004 survey would disagree.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=207800&EL=3060983

The worst rated 3 cars in thi segment are all French. The Laguna is last and has it own sub class.

In fact out of 120 cars rated Scenic was 67th, Megane 77th, Clio 91st, Pug 306 92nd, Pug 406 94th, Pug 206 95th, Laguna 110th, Pug 307 118th, and Espace 119th.

I rest my case.

So why does the megane have the same rating as lots of makes you've listed (Seat, VW, Audi, Opel, Nissan, Subaru)

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=207800&EL=3060978
??

Plus this survey is not of the same vintage as the year of car that the OP is looking - its for cars max 1 year old from 2004.

Henry Ford III

2004 survey is entirely relevant.

OP didn't mention year of manufacture anywhere, only his budget.

French cars are amongst the poorest built and most unrelaible available. Bottom line.

Henry Ford III

Check this one. Looks ok.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=408424

comanche

Henry Ford III wrote:

2004 survey is entirely relevant.

OP didn't mention year of manufacture anywhere, only his budget.

French cars are amongst the poorest built and most unrelaible available. Bottom line.

OP is not going to get a 1.6 2004 for 8k unless it comes with a free telephone pole thru the windscreen if you know what I mean.

bottom line is that the OP will have to make a trade off between percived reliability, car condition, milage (always very subjective in my opinion), safety, badge and creature comforts.

IMO renaults are very well equiped cars, good safety, fair reliability and pretty cheap compared to the competition.

breanoh

Just to take up on this again, I have had a 1995 306, and drove it for a year, trouble free, before giving it to my mum who also had no trouble until someone pulled accross in front of her and wrote it off. A lot of my friends have 206's and none of them have ever had trouble with them. My aunt had a mégane, and never gave trouble, a couple of friends also have méganes, clio's and one or two lagunas, also trouble free. I have never heard any problems with the 406, however the citroen's are another story, KEEP AWAY!
Skoda and Seat actually are better cars than their VW and Aude counterparts, better value for money and less on the service costs, they are also more reliable than the VW/Audi's, I would say keep away from anything with an Opel or Vauxhall badge, you're only buying trouble.
Toyota avensis vvti is giving engine trouble, Ford Mundano is giving ECU trouble, and has a generally low build quality, the immob also gives trouble.

scargill

Henry Ford III wrote:

French cars are amongst the poorest built and most unrelaible available. Bottom line.

I've heard that hundreds of times, but I've had the following cars....

88 Micra (Jap import)
92 Micra (new)
93 Peugeot 106 (2nd hand - travelled from Dublin to Cork twice a week)
95 Peugeot 106 (2nd hand)
98 Peugeot 306 (2nd hand)
01 VW Golf (new)
04 Audi A3 (new)

The only cars NEVER to give me any trouble ? the three Pugs !!! (and the Jap import Micra that I had for 6 months). In all reliability surveys French cars do crap and German cars do brilliant. My Golf gave me endless trouble !! I've had a few issues with the A3 too (touch wood - no probs in 2 years).

Now I know its not a scientific study but my experience with French cars has been very positive! And a lot of peoples opinions on cars are based on personal experience.

(While - I'm on it, the girlfriends father won't let any of his daughters buy a Ford cos he had trouble with a gearbox on a Cortina in the '70s some time !!!)

Henry Ford III

Hang on for a second folks.

J.D. Power's survey is based on literally thousands of drivers experiences of new and used models. It is as comprehensive and impartial as is possible.

The fact that one or two people here have had good ownership experiences is simply not relevant to the overall picture.

I think I'll leave it at that.

TempestSabre

How are Seat/Skoda better than the VW when they are essentially the same chassis, same parts? The only difference is the styling design. Engineering design is the same.

Germans cars are picking up in quality as they used to be very poor for a long time in all the surveys. The Jap cars are still the best in terms of reliability. Assuming of course you don't buy a lemon in the first place. You can do that with any brand.

I'd place more faith in the surveys (taken in context) then people individual experiences. As a "good" independent mechanic his opinion of certain cars. They generally will see most of the common problems.

bazz26

breanoh wrote:

Just a word of warning on the Avensis, don't touch the MK1 vvti, they have gone through engines like a fat chick goes through chocolate bars!

I have covered over 140k miles on these VVTi engines (50k miles on a 2001 model, 92k miles on my current 2003 model) and have had no engine problems. Yes there were some issues with the engine drinking excessive amounts of oil after 40k miles and it effected mostly the 1.8 VVTi engine back in 2000/2001, the majority of these engines effected were sold in the UK within a certain chassis number afaik. I did hear of some cases here alright but while Toyota didn't issue a recall they did replace any engine that was found to be burning excessive oil even outside of warranty without issue afaik. Most of this would have been done by now. Other than that the VVTi engines are very durable if a little thirsty on petrol.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote:

J.D Power's 2004 survey would disagree.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=207800&EL=3060983

The worst rated 3 cars in thi segment are all French. The Laguna is last and has it own sub class.

In fact out of 120 cars rated Scenic was 67th, Megane 77th, Clio 91st, Pug 306 92nd, Pug 406 94th, Pug 206 95th, Laguna 110th, Pug 307 118th, and Espace 119th.

I rest my case.

As has been pointed out many times in this forum that's a satisfaction survey not a reliability survey. Also, it's very subjective as it's based on Joe Public's perception of how satisfied he is with a car. Using JD Power to evaluate a car's reliability is only slightly more scientific than asking a taxi driver or some guy down the pub for his opinion.

It's actually very difficult to say with any certainty whether Brand A is significantly better than Brand B when it comes to reliability. I would suggest that most European makes are similar for relaibility with the Japanese having slightly higher quality standards.

It's easier to evaluate build quality. I see you say that Renault's have **** build quality. Which Renaults are these? When was the last time you examined a Renault to see how well screwed together it was

TempestSabre

Actually I think its more scientific if taken in context. By that I mean if you consider who fills in these surveys, how easily satisfied or demanding a driver is of a Nissan Micra is VS a Porsche etc. Certainly satisfaction is often linked to reliability. I can't image "the majority" of people being satisfied with unreliability.

Are build quality and quality the same thing?

Henry Ford III

BrianD3 wrote:

As has been pointed out many times in this forum that's a satisfaction survey not a reliability survey. Also, it's very subjective as it's based on Joe Public's perception of how satisfied he is with a car. Using JD Power to evaluate a car's reliability is only slightly more scientific than asking a taxi driver or some guy down the pub for his opinion.

It's actually very difficult to say with any certainty whether Brand A is significantly better than Brand B when it comes to reliability. I would suggest that most European makes are similar for relaibility with the Japanese having slightly higher quality standards.

It's easier to evaluate build quality. I see you say that Renault's have **** build quality. Which Renaults are these? When was the last time you examined a Renault to see how well screwed together it was

Pretty much all of them. Espace and Laguna are worst. I read surveys and opinions based on a wide sample so have no need to examine anything.

J.D. Power works for me and for many others too. Would you suggest we should simply discount it completely and base our opinions your own experience of the same thing?

Have a look at Honest John and/or Parkers. It's the same story there.

R.O.R

Drove a 02 1.8 Laguna on Tuesday - I'd rather VD than one of those.

Had a current shape Primera as a hire car for 3 days last year. 1.6 and it was worse than the Laguna.

Driven numerous Modeo 1.8's (LX and Zetec) and very good to drive. Used to have a 01 Zetec Diesel that I traded for €11,000 last year. Might be some of those around.

Laguna's are notorious for electical problems (I work in the fleet industry so have a large number of vehicles to base info on). No issues with the Primera, there are probably still loads of dirty 02 Diesels around, but just because it's reliable doesn't mean you want to drive one.

The Passat is underpowered and overpriced in a 1.6. Golf - same goes.

Personally - Mondeo all the way. 01 onwards and hope the 1.8 insurance isn't too much higher than a 1.6. Probably bring a decent one in from the UK for nothing and use the difference to pay insurance.

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote:

Have a look at Honest John and/or Parkers. It's the same story there.

Honest John is a pretty crap site actually. There is blatantly wrong information on there. It's also very hit and miss - they exaggerate some problems and fail to mention other ones which can be more common/serious.

japanpaul

ninty9er wrote:

Don't know if you're looking for a minimum age but go for a decent car if at all possible that will always have some value. Don't see a location so I'm presuming Dubl


http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=465399

The mileage can't be real on that, can it???

ianobrien

japanpaul wrote:

The mileage can't be real on that, can it???

If the milage on that was real, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

if the milage is correct, the engine is probably all deposits, the rubber hoses in the car are delaminating due to lack of use. There is probably rust in the engine & gearbox as the car never heated up enough to drive out the water. Pistons and seals are stuck, and will break/leak when used (I'm thinking brakes here). And the car is not due it's first service on milage yet!

Basically, stay away!

maidhc

japanpaul wrote:

The mileage can't be real on that, can it???

€1 per mile.

ninty9er

I'd say there's a 0 missing on the end

ninty9er

On the 90K Audi it's less than 15k a year, quite average not high at all for an Audi in fact.

Vectra- My dad had one and so did a neighbour. Dad disposed of his because the plate was getting a bit old. Neighbour had a 2.0 Auto which was too heavy on juice for 1500 miles a week.

Otherwise no probs.


French reliability. Was bad then good up to 95/6 then bad.

And anyone who says that Peugeot are great but stay away from Citroën is talking through their hat. The PSA group existence means they share the same guts and innards.

Parents had a 77 Renault 5 - door spontaneously fell off in 83

Pug 205 - Great car -

02 Xsara. Stay away. No more Citroëns need apply here

JHMEG

My 2c:

Not often I agree with what Jeremy Clarkson has to say, but I have to agree with the line: "No-one buys French cars for their reliability".

Vectra is a grand car in some ways. They do give a reasonable amount of trouble tho. The timing belt tensioner you refer to is prone to breaking up and shredding the belt. But if the belt was changed at an Opel dealer the new metal-wheeled tensioner should have been fitted with the new belt, and solved that problem. Be prepared for other stuff tho, like front wishbone bushes wearing out, dodgy alternators etc. The good thing about Opel is that they're one of the cheapest makes to actually fix. Maybe that's a sign of how often they go wrong?

VAG cars based on the Passat platform up till recently (2006) wear out their front suspension bushes prematurely, and are expensive to replace. Other stuff goes wrong to, and it all seems to be expensive to replace. Their perceived reliability is way over rated, as surveys have shown (in 2005 Alfa was officially more reliable than VW for example!)

Focus has very good driving dynamics. Feels like someone's pushing it tho. I couldn't believe the lack of poke once you're past 2nd gear. Maybe it's the gearing, but I was left underwhelmed after driving my brother in law's for a few days.

Have you considered a 2001 model Civic? Good dynamics, good spec, and the 1.6 has good poke. Unbreakable too. Only complaint would be the over assisted steering lacks feedback, but then all Civic seem to suffer that complaint, tho it's fairly minor. Should be starting to come with your budget.

HashSlinging

JHMEG wrote:

surveys have shown (in 2005 Alfa was officially more reliable than VW for example!)
QUOTE]


According to who? Source please.