Disciplinary:Breaking co.policy under instruction

baguio

Just looking for some opinions on the following.

I work for a US multinational manufacturing outfit -no union naturally.
The other week there was a quality related incident in which company policy was broken by myself. However, I had been under instruction by my line manager to disregard this particular aspect of the quality control procedure. Furthermore, I can prove that he instructed me to disregard it.

These situations have arisen within the company in the past and the company has always laid the blame on the person who finds themselves in my predicament - and not the line manager. To defy the instuction of a line manager can lead to life being made more difficult.

Taking a look at this scenario from an employment law point of view, would the company be entitled to subject me to their disciplinary procedures under these circumstances? Should they just be pursueing the line manager -or both of us? Its quite likely that they will just make me the scapegoat.

Wishbone Ash

Could you not inform senior management that you were instructed to do what ever it, was by your line manager.

baguio

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Could you not inform senior management that you were instructed to do what ever it, was by your line manager.

I will be doing so and in a logical world one would expect that it would end there. However, if they decide to back him up instead of me, where would that leave me?

mel123

baguio wrote:

I will be doing so and in a logical world one would expect that it would end there. However, if they decide to back him up instead of me, where would that leave me?

Its not logical what ur saying, how can they 'back him up' when he told u to do something...and u have proof - by proof i take it you mean written proof or something. Ur manager is responsible for you, and if he told you to do something then he should be getting the wrap, i know thats the way it works in my company.

TempestSabre

Depends what their agenda is.

baguio

mel123 wrote:

Its not logical what ur saying, how can they 'back him up' when he told u to do something...and u have proof - by proof i take it you mean written proof or something. Ur manager is responsible for you, and if he told you to do something then he should be getting the wrap, i know thats the way it works in my company.

Yeah - I know it doesnt seem logical to rational thinking people but this is what goes on in this particular company. They get us to sign for every little change they make to the policy - that we understand it and will adhere to it. Line Managers are under severe pressure to perform & achieve output targets so they put pressure on their subordinates to cut corners and break away from company policy - on the basis that if (and when) the shít hits the fan, they will deny responsibility and put pressure on the subordinate to accept that they messed up (which they didnt really). Its a blame game and out of principal I dont want to go along with it. My interest is how this situation would be viewed from a legal point of view - cos if i'm not cooperating (ie. accepting the blame), they may well escalate the matter in order to bully me into submission.

baguio

TempestSabre wrote:

Depends what their agenda is.

Ok, well lets go with the assumption that they want to sháft me on this one. Do I give in or stick to my guns? If I can establish that I'm covered legally, I will stick to my guns.

TempestSabre

What do you want to have happen. Theres obviously a conflict between company policy and whats happening on the ground, causing confusion and breeches in company policy. Anytime I've been in the position I've queried it and it always comes down to the manager being responsible and what they say goes. Once they put that in writing I'm happy with that. But I won't do anything without express instruction, in that kind of enviroment. If theres a grey area, you can be sure its there as a get out clause for someone.

baguio

TempestSabre wrote:

What do you want to have happen.

Others would just take the disciplinary on the chin - even though the problem was not of their making. I just dont want to accept responsibility for a mess that resulted from me following the instructions of my line manager - I dont think thats the stance of a troublemaker, just that of a principaled person. What I want to happen is for my work record to remain unblemished and to carry out my duties as normal.

TempestSabre wrote:

Theres obviously a conflict between company policy and whats happening on the ground, causing confusion and breeches in company policy. Anytime I've been in the position I've queried it and it always comes down to the manager being responsible and what they say goes. Once they put that in writing I'm happy with that. But I won't do anything without express instruction, in that kind of enviroment. If theres a grey area, you can be sure its there as a get out clause for someone.

I- along with two others who perform the same duties - were instructed verbally by the Line Manager & someone from the quality dept. that it was ok to proceed without carrying out a quality check which had recently been added to the companys quality control policy (which we had signed for). They decided this when they found that the new procedure was slowing down production. Furthermore, no additonal time had been allocated to these duties by the company in the aftermath of introducing these changes (this is a production environment and the company has carried out time & motion audits on every work task - but no additional time had been allocated to this task). The time and motion thing may not be relevant but I mention it in passing.

The other two will verify my story. Thats all I have to go on.

TempestSabre

On re-reading your posts, is it correct to say no disciplinary procedures has been started against you? Maybe nothing will happen. However it might be wise as a group to raise the issue with your manager that you (the group) are not comfortable operating outside company policy unless you recieve written instructions overruling the company policy in this area.

To be honest only those on the ground like yourself, who know the nuances of the situation can make an accurate assessment of the situation. I would suggest if possible try not to alienate your manager over this. They might be looking for your support and as group you should be able to fix the problem, and not the blame.

Often though, when asked for written permission, the manager might be a lot less eager to operate beyond company policy.

baguio

TempestSabre wrote:

On re-reading your posts, is it correct to say no disciplinary procedures has been started against you? Maybe nothing will happen.

The matter has been 'escalated' to someone higher up the food chain. I *think* the next stage will be an informal discussion but I will be getting clarification on this shortly. The outcome of that discussion will determine whether its a disciplinary issue - at least thats my understanding of it at the moment.

TempestSabre wrote:

However it might be wise as a group to raise the issue with your manager that you (the group) are not comfortable operating outside company policy unless you recieve written instructions overruling the company policy in this area.
...I would suggest if possible try not to alienate your manager over this. They might be looking for your support and as group you should be able to fix the problem, and not the blame.

Unfortunately, it wont play out like this. He knows its either him or me. The company culture means that there has to be accountability <insert- fall guy>. His only concern has been to try to get me to sign a letter stating that I messed up - and I wont do this.
On a side note, before the last annual review which senior management relay to employees back in January, there was an opportunity to put forward questions. I put forward a question on this very subject ie. line managers cajoling their subordinates into breaking company policy in advance of the review. Answers to questions were published following the review but mine wasnt. I dont really have much in the way of evidence to show that this went in unfortunately.

TempestSabre wrote:

Often though, when asked for written permission, the manager might be a lot less eager to operate beyond company policy.

Your absolutely right. Its a case of learning the hard way for me on this one. However, most people dont challenge authority and wouldnt be able to deal with a line manager who would be out for retribution for not going along with him.

TempestSabre

Well in that case, I guess you can only plead your case. But ultimately you broke the policy not the manager. If you get done for it accept it gracefully but make it clear you won't deviate from the policy again. Just make sure everyone knows what a spineless lowlife manager you have. Its a hard lesson to learn, but you'll not forget it. If someone won't write something down, theres always a good reason why not.

That said if its obvious the company knows the manager is the cause of it but choose to blame the subordinate, then its not much of a company ethos.

baguio

TempestSabre wrote:

That said if its obvious the company knows the manager is the cause of it but choose to blame the subordinate, then its not much of a company ethos.

Too right its not. Another year of this and I hope I have myself sorted on a self employed basis (fingers,toes,eyes crossed).

TempestSabre

Good luck with it all anywayz.