Bulletproof Vests & their Legality

#Smokey#

I was wondering if bulletproof vests are legal here in ireland as a protection for hunters.I know that there are criminal aspects of them as well but what exactly is the governments stance on them?

cushtac

Vests are perfectly legal, there's nothing in law to prohibit their sale or use.

Fanny Cradock

try the shooting forum: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=466
you may get more advice and info.

#Smokey#

yeah. could a mod please move to shooting forum?

#Smokey#

cushtac wrote:

Vests are perfectly legal, there's nothing in law to prohibit their sale or use.

where did you get this information?

Dooom

Well it's just like wearing a tin plate really. There's nothing dangerous or offensive about them. They're perfectly legal.

Fajitas!

*Before this gets moved*

Does this mean there's going to be a trend of wearing bulletproof vest in the Blanch area?

#Smokey#

no just wondering about hunters.I thought they should have to have vests by law when hunting in case of accidents

Fajitas!

Aye, was only joking.

I suppose it would be handy, but then again, when you're hunting, you can walk for miles, I remember doing it years back, and by jebus, if I had to carry a plated vest, I'd be dead!

#Smokey#

Fajitas! wrote:

Aye, was only joking.

I suppose it would be handy, but then again, when you're hunting, you can walk for miles, I remember doing it years back, and by jebus, if I had to carry a plated vest, I'd be dead!

I know you were.

On a side note though. I have never seen a palce where you can actually buy a vest.Surely there must be a hunting or sporting shop for them.

Rew

There legal, but I dont think you will see any hunters wearing em. Some secuity staff wear them (door staff etc.)

Also some well known criminals have been buying them. There bought from specialist security equip dealers. There not cheap eaither.

#Smokey#

what do you mean by specialist security equip dealers? an example perhaps?

whupass

i saw one in the army surplus store "army bargains" in town was a €100 not expensive if it could save your life

cushtac

#Smokey# wrote:

where did you get this information?

I sell them, as does a good few shops & web-based retailers in Ireland and the UK. Before getting into it I got legal advice on the matter.

Go to www.irishstatuebook.ie & do a search of all acts & SI's for the words armour, vest & flakk - the only mention for body armour is an SI on exports.

cushtac

Spike wrote:

Well it's just like wearing a tin plate really.

Broadly speaking you've got two types of armour - hard & soft. Soft armour consists of relatively flexible plates of a synthetic fibre like aramid (marketed as Kevlar by DuPont) or polyethylene (Honeywell sells it as Spectra). Depending on it's construction, a soft armour vest may protect against handguns, buckshot & knives. The thing is, the greater the level of protection the vest offers, the heavier and less flexible the vest is.

Hard armour is either solid plates of aramid or polyethylene or a ceramic. These plates may, depending on it's contruction, stop rifle rounds like 5.56mm and are generally worn in conjuction with soft armour.

Fajitas! wrote:

Does this mean there's going to be a trend of wearing bulletproof vest in the Blanch area?

Why not? The crminal fraternity have been wearing vests for a long time now.

#Smokey# wrote:

what do you mean by specialist security equip dealers? an example perhaps?

VestGuard & Hard Target are two web-based retailers in the UK, a well known surplus store in Dublin sells them.

cushtac

whupass wrote:

i saw one in the army surplus store "army bargains" in town was a €100 not expensive if it could save your life

€100 will not buy you a decent vest.

whupass

yeah it was very heavy and i didn't really feel like standing in front of a gun with it, it just didn't feel like much quality. i saw on tv that there is a rating for how thick they are and how many threads of kevlar there is or something is this true? well anyway i got a feeling it would be low on that scale.

cushtac

The most widely quoted standard it that of the US National Institute of Justice (NIJ) - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/

Another standard used is the UK Home Office's Police Scientific Development Branch (PSDB) - http://scienceandresearch.homeoffice.gov.uk/hosdb/

The two standards are similar in methods of testing used and the levels of protection they assign.

whupass

ok i couldn't find it i searched for it on the nij and came up with first aid protection (it might be the time)

cushtac

Click on the 'Programs' link down the bottom of the page, then click on 'Technology Programs' link on the page that comes up & you should see 'Body Armor' in the 'Topics' list.

whupass

ok found it now but i think i'll read it in the lesss wee hours of the morning, if you don't mind no offence meant

Rew

#Smokey# wrote:

what do you mean by specialist security equip dealers? an example perhaps?

Cushtac would be my recomendation

cushtac

whupass wrote:

ok found it now but i think i'll read it in the lesss wee hours of the morning, if you don't mind no offence meant

Not at all, read it at your leisure.

Dooom

cushtac wrote:

Broadly speaking you've got two types of armour - hard & soft. Soft armour consists of relatively flexible plates of a synthetic fibre like aramid (marketed as Kevlar by DuPont) or polyethylene (Honeywell sells it as Spectra). Depending on it's construction, a soft armour vest may protect against handguns, buckshot & knives. The thing is, the greater the level of protection the vest offers, the heavier and less flexible the vest is.

Hard armour is either solid plates of aramid or polyethylene or a ceramic. These plates may, depending on it's contruction, stop rifle rounds like 5.56mm and are generally worn in conjuction with soft armour.

I know what body armour is, I think you mistook me - I was trying to say to the OP that it's just like wearing anything else (albeit something out of the ordinary).

cushtac

None of that was apparent to me from your comment, sorry.

RainyDay

cushtac wrote:

I
Go to www.irishstatuebook.ie & do a search of all acts & SI's for the words armour, vest & flakk - the only mention for body armour is an SI on exports.

I wouldn't assume that legislation will use language or terminology which is recognisable to you and me.

civdef

Feel free to suggest alternatives.

Clare gunner

Cushtac said it all about the types etc of vests.
One thing if anyone was /is going to buy one.BUY NEW!! Things for sale for 100 euros in an army surplus store are more than likely Flack vests,which are designed to stop splinters and grenade bits,not bullets.Put it like this;would you trust your life to a 100 euro 15th hand parachute if you had to jump from a plane???Same with Kevelar vests.Second hand vests unless they were unissued over runs,still in the wrapper from a reliable source,is false economy.
some of these vests have been wrongly cleaned,got wet[weakens kevelar apprently],been only shot once,etc. Also a bullet proof vest is useless against a knife or arrow attack,unless you have trauma plates in it.[Which are heavy muthas to wear every day.:( ]
Is your life and limbs worth 600 euros??

However be prepared to lose your vest if the Gardai find out about it.They seem to have a policy of confiscating them off all and sundry.

Funny though with health and saftey issues these days,and one having the right saftey gear to do a job,you would think they would now be mandatory saftey equipment for anyone working in the security and law enforcement industry.Wonder why not?

Clare gunner

Clare gunner wrote:

some of these vests have been wrongly cleaned,got wet[weakens kevelar apprently]

Let me get this straight - it will stop a round from an Ak, but can't stop a super-soaker?????

If the Taliban ever get to the hear of this!

Hagar

The Gardaí need to get over themselves. Two boar hunters have been accidentally shot dead in the last month near where I live. One was hit in the head by a richochet, a vest would not have been much use there admittedly but the second guy was hit straight in the chest and might have survived. Normally hunters here wear orange high viz vests over their camo to prevent this type of accident. I imagine the boars/deer are colour blind, I don't know that for a fact. The first case has been declared an accidental death by the coronor but there is a investigation into the second death as the shooter accidentally shot and killed a 14yr old boy a number of years ago. Personally I'd buy a BP Vest. There's some right idiots out there with high power weapons.

cushtac

I have never once heard of Gardaí confiscating vests. I've sold dozens of vests to civillians and Gardaí alike. None of those I've subsequently talked to (which would be most of them) have reported any problems with the authorities.

The armour panels in vests are sealed in waterproof material to protect the actual 'armour' itself. Damage or incorrect storage can cause this material to rip or erode & can expose the armour core to moisture, prolonged exposure to which may degrade the panel's ability to stop a bullet. That's not to say that a vest damaged in such a manner won't stop a bullet, but would you be willing to take that chance on it?

Studies in the US found that armour made from Zylon, a polyurethane, was prone to failure when the core was exposed to moisture over long periods of time. This lead to a huge amount of recalls & several lawsuits. Kevlar's a slightly different material (it's aramid) so I don't know if it degrades in the same manner as Zylon, but I'm not aware of any large-scale recall of Kevlar.

cushtac

RainyDay wrote:

I wouldn't assume that legislation will use language or terminology which is recognisable to you and me.

Actually it does. SI 363 of 1996 and SI 300 of 2000, both control of exports orders, use the terms 'body armour' and 'flakk suits'. SI 300 or 2000 also uses the term 'bullet-proof', but applies it to tyres.

Clare gunner

original_psycho wrote:

Let me get this straight - it will stop a round from an Ak, but can't stop a super-soaker?????

If the Taliban ever get to the hear of this!

If it is threat level IV with trauma plates,[near enough as comfortable as a suit of armour]yes it will stop an AK.Although you will have massive bruising and proably internal organ damage as well from energy dump.
No water as in a good dunking or putting your vest in the washing machine,etc.Dont worry the Taliban dont use kevelar,slows you down on the way to meet Allah.:D

Cushtac.
There are numerous cases of the Gardai confiscating BVs down here in Limerick,paticularlly off the fueding fammlies.OK,they are scumbags,but I suppose they have a right to protection as well? Check out Limerickpost.ie over the last two years.
Wasnt it second chance body armour that had the recall on kevelar a few years back??Due to dampness ??
Hagar,
yup,deer and boar are color blind,but make up for it in smell and hearing.
To counter a heavy calibre deer round ,you would need threat level 3 or4.Which is a heavy vest to wear all day out hunting.The case you describe sounds like somone with buck fever not identifying their target properly,plus boar or deer or game in general does not wear flouresent red.:eek:
Accidents are more likely to happen in shooting with driven game onto a line of shooters,where beaters get hit by shot ,or ricohcetting[sic] shot pelletts. so a 2a vest would be good,but the trouble with richocets is you never where they will hit.Personally if I was going hunting with Italians,I would deffo get one.Those lot are worse than the Yanks for buck fever.:eek: :eek:

cushtac

Clare gunner wrote:

There are numerous cases of the Gardai confiscating BVs down here in Limerick,paticularlly off the feuding families.OK,they are scumbags,but I suppose they have a right to protection as well? Check out Limerickpost.ie over the last two years.
Wasn't it second chance body armour that had the recall on kevelar a few years back??Due to dampness ??

That is very strange, considering many known criminals in Dublin are wearing vests with the full knowledge of the Gardaí. Criminals are indeed entitled to legally protect themselves as much as the next man & I would be interested to see what legislation the Gardaí invoked in these confiscations.

The only big Second Chance recall I know of is the Zylon one, the whole issue has contributed greatly to their bankruptcy.

Clare gunner

cushtac wrote:

That is very strange, considering many known criminals in Dublin are wearing vests with the full knowledge of the Gardaí. Criminals are indeed entitled to legally protect themselves as much as the next man & I would be interested to see what legislation the Gardaí invoked in these confiscations.

The only big Second Chance recall I know of is the Zylon one, the whole issue has contributed greatly to their bankruptcy.

The Gaurds never actually specified any type of legislation on this, just"policy". And that it would help to "defuse" the situation.[I was thinking along the same lines and selling them down here as well].But I was "advised" against it by the powers that be.
.All in all it seems down here another make life difficult for those who want one.
So it was second chance that did the Zylon vest.Thanks ,was unsure who it was.

mcguiver

Hi Cushtac,
Have you come across a brand called HIGHMARK??
I borrow one from a mate whenever the need arises, has plates.
Fairly comfortable too.

Might be time for me to invest in one.

Cheers
Mc Guiver

maglite

what do ye use them for are ye security contractors or is it rec shooting?

civdef

One has to wonder.


mcguiver - Highmark are the suppliers for a lot of British police forces.

mcguiver

For Work (And ye thought Mc Guiver only had a swiss army knife!:rolleyes: )

Although having been on a few of the ranges around Ireland sometimes I wonder if we should all wear them.

Trojan911

I have two BPV's, one has trauma plates which can detach, I bought this in London in a reputable shop but is cumbersome to wear, it was approx £500stg at the time in '95. The second is a knife & bulletproof kevlar, it was tailor fitted to my measurements so I don't know the price as work supplied it. It is excellent to wear and lighter than number one vest. (must locate it for details).

I wear the light one when doing a fox shoot with dogs as there are quite a lot of us when hunting with the dogs.. I don't know of them being in anyway illegal.

TJ911...