Donabate Assault

turbot

Hey everyone,

This is a quick post to all you party people tell you to be careful
... and learn lessons from an event I witnessed last weekend.

At a beach party in Donabate, in the Dunes, last saturday, all was grand. My friends and I got there at 5am-ish and danced through until 10:30am.... There was about 100 people in all.

The music was still playing at 10:30am and people were dancing.

From the corner of my eye I watched this big Ukranian Guy (and his accomplice) start dragging this a 21 year old girl away from the dance area, I think she was Russian. She called out to one of her Russian friends who walked over to these Ukranian guys, and forced there hands open, so she could escape their grip, and she did.

The Russian guy seemed pretty calm, and to seemed to know the Ukranian guys, and talked to them for a while, then seemed to motion them away from the party, and they all walked over the Dune onto the beach.

I wondered if there may be a fight, but based upon the Russian guy and how calm he was, I figured I was watching something I didn't culturally understand.

Next thing I know someone comes running over the Dune to the party area, and shouts come quick, and I run over the dune and see the Russian (who saved his female friend) doubled over, his face was covered in blood.

I then found out, from two people who watched what I didn't see, that the Russian guy walked ahead of this Ukranian guy. The Ukranian guy took a razor blade of his pocket, and as the Russian guy turned around (passively - to talk) the Ukranian guy swung his hand up with the razor and sliced open the Russian guys cheek. The ambulance said hit was an inch and half deep, his cheek had been cut in half.

Aparently the Ukranian thug then stood over him... and then triumphantly walked up the beach.

The police and ambulance were called... they were caught.

I have lots of russian, latvian and lithuanian friends and eastern european, all of whom I find are really decent, good people. This behaviour, from an Eastern European, really shocked me.

ball ox

thats horrible, I left about ten minutes before that happened. That kind of stuff is just disgusting I don't know how any person can swing a blade at someones face without intending to kill them

Boru.

That's horrible. Stories like that remind me why I like a boring life. Slippers, smoking jacket, and in bed by 10. A good book and a twelve guage shotgun by my bed.

Mola.mola

turbot wrote:

Hey everyone....

Hi what's this got to do with self defense/martial arts?

Boru.

Oh I could come up with a whole host of things...Situational Awareness, moral / ethical responsability, how social stereotyping affects self defence, the nature and oppertunity of crime, nature of attack, extrapolated razor balde defences, wake up call for those who like to sugar coat reality....stuff like that.

Use it as an oppertunity to learn.

Mola.mola

Boru. wrote:

Oh I could come up with a whole host of things...Situational Awareness, moral / ethical responsability, how social stereotyping affects self defence, the nature and oppertunity of crime, nature of attack, extrapolated razor balde defences, wake up call for those who like to sugar coat reality....stuff like that.

Use it as an oppertunity to learn.

But so could a story about going the shop and buying a packet of cigarettes. is this a forum for everyone ot tell their stories about how some guy hit another guy? no thanks to be honest. perhaps it is time to seperate the SD from the MA

Miles Long

Mola.mola wrote:

Perhaps it is time to seperate the SD from the MA

Ron Burgundy wrote:

I wanna say something. I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back.

turbot

What does this to do with Self Defence / Martial Arts?

- A real life example of a real assault that happened in this country.

- The person who had his cheek cut, I would have thought, would have been able to handle himself in a fight ( he did a lot of boxing 10+ years ago ) but he never saw this coming

- A description of the actions of a person, whom I now understand, is out on the streets, pending a trial


Why did I post it?

- To encourage you to be careful and wise

- Because sometimes that little bit of distance in a situation with unknowns might make the difference

- So you can brush up on your knife / blade defence techniques

- Because you can't over prepare


What have I taken from it?

- To be more careful, tactical, and assume nothing

Michael O Leary

Mola.mola wrote:

perhaps it is time to seperate the SD from the MA

You cannot separate them. Its called "Martial" Arts for a good reason. I understand and respect the fact that you do MMA for a sporting reason but you have to understand that the sporting aspect is merely an add on. The essance of Martial Arts is in effective self-defence. It originated with self-defence and will remain instrinsinctly linked to self-defence long after your little fad dies away.

If you want to start a new forum called combat sports do so but please recognise that a lot, if not most people do martial arts in order to defend themselves.

What happens on a beach in Ireland has more relevance to me than what happens in a cage in America.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

P.S. I am drunk and will probley apologise to you tomorrow.

SorGan

Michael O Leary wrote:

You cannot separate them. Its called "Martial" Arts for a good reason. I understand and respect the fact that you do MMA for a sporting reason but you have to understand that the sporting aspect is merely an add on. The essance of Martial Arts is in effective self-defence. It originated with self-defence and will remain instrinsinctly linked to self-defence long after your little fad dies away.

If you want to start a new forum called combat sports do so but please recognise that a lot, if not most people do martial arts in order to defend themselves.

What happens on a beach in Ireland has more relevance to me than what happens in a cage in America.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

P.S. I am drunk and will probley apologise to you tomorrow.

Mola.mola

A combat sports forum sounds like a great idea. With the exception of soccer this forum is probably the most active and used in the Sports Category so there would be plenty of interest to support two forums.

I'm the complete opposite to MOL, I don't think this forum is the place to hear about assault,robbery,attacks, there are other forums on boards.ie for that - dublin city, after hours.

A new forum would probably suit the "TMA" guys who feel threatened by MMA disscussion. Yeah, great idea Michael, Combat sports forum. Anyone else agree?

SorGan

Mola.mola wrote:

A combat sports forum sounds like a great idea. With the exception of soccer this forum is probably the most active and used in the Sports Category so there would be plenty of interest to support two forums.

I'm the complete opposite to MOL, I don't think this forum is the place to hear about assault,robbery,attacks, there are other forums on boards.ie for that - dublin city, after hours.

A new forum would probably suit the "TMA" guys who feel threatened by MMA disscussion. Yeah, great idea Michael, Combat sports forum. Anyone else agree?

naaa..plenty of room here,personaly i dont want to hear about "this guy got slashed/stabbed/head kicked in" etc..i feel real discussional points can be adressed without such stories,

Musashi

Mola wrote:

A new forum would probably suit the "TMA" guys who feel threatened by MMA disscussion. Yeah, great idea Michael, Combat sports forum

I've seen this type of split on other forums, they usually died off after it though. Why not retain the SD side of MA along with the Sporting? It does no harm and I'm not sure what the benefit would be for TMA over MMA protocols?

TMA can be lax on the "pressure testing" side of things. Equally "MMA" can let the "Street" stuff lag in favour of ring and Competition proven technique.

I think the best improvement is to be had from listening to both camps and taking on board the problems faced and learning how to deal with them.

I'm the complete opposite to MOL, I don't think this forum is the place to hear about assault,robbery,attacks, there are other forums on boards.ie for that - dublin city, after hours.

If not on here then where? This is the "Self Defense" forum along with the "MArtial Arts" forum. If we can't look at actual assaults and decide on better ways of dealing with those threats then what are we at here? Reviewing the latest K1/UFC/Pride fights?

Those events, while entertaining, have a lot less relevance to me than an actual assault carried out here in our Country.

If you want to go ahead and lobby for a "Combat Sports" forum, then go right ahead. I can't help but feel a forum dedicated to similar thinking sports fans, would suit those fans better than a forum where their outlook is questioned. Maybe the TMA lads are more open to Constructive criticism than some MMA fans?

john kavanagh

Musashi wrote:

Maybe the TMA lads are more open to Constructive criticism than some MMA fans?

yes they can be pigeon-holed as simple as that:rolleyes: maybe everybody is just an individual and it doesn't matter what training background they have

personally i dont care what threads are on this forum......i do this k-razy thing and only click on the threads i want to read!!!

Boru.

Woah, deja-vu...no wait..its my incredbile 80's ninja sixth sense kicking in..haven't we debated this before, and have we not decided to read those posts which are of intrest and to us and ignore those that don't....any chance for getting back on topic....anyone? Beuller?

Millionaire

thats a horrific story.

Different cultures, certainly have different ways of dealing with conflict.

For example in Thailand here, it is perfectly accepted for group of guys to kick the crap out of one guy alone usually with sticks or other weapons. and when there is conflict thats what usually happens, and how they elect to deal with conflict. (of course this can happen any where in the world too).

While its not a nice feeling to read about a horrible attack, it is useful from time to time, to study situations like this, as lot can be learned from a SD point of view, especially the avoidence and situational awarness issues.

Yes, SD has a very important place on this board. However there is a seperate MMA forum Shane T runs at mmaireland.com , and also the irish muay thai web site for combat sports too.

Roper

Hey lads,
Plenty of MMA and combat sports forums out there. What makes this forum isn't its content its the fact that its Irish, and chances are you know the guy you're arguing with and can go round his gaf later....

On the topic,
Terrible assault of course. I don't think there's any real way of preparing for something like that as it seemed like the guys were known to the victim and it was randaom and brutal in that it wasn't expected. I'd say the unexpected factor is common in weapon based assaults.

I too know a good deal of Polish and Eastern European Dubs, the reason you hear a lot of things like this on the news involving "Eastern Europeans" on the radio and TV is that it tends to register with the average Irish listener a bit more. This is a larger issue I know but I'd like to see the crime figures compared with the amount of air time given to assualts like this. My guess would be that it would reflect studies elsewhere in the world where crime among immigrant or minority communities was given more air time than crime among indigenous communities.

Wow, sociological issues on the MA forum. Maybe we should split again!

Dragan

turbot wrote:

- The person who had his cheek cut, I would have thought, would have been able to handle himself in a fight ( he did a lot of boxing 10+ years ago ) but he never saw this coming

Not really know....he WOULD be able to handle himself in a boxing match, he MIGHT be able to handle himself in a fight.

Not really a big fan of splitting the forum. This palce seems to thrive on the debate between those of differing opinions. If everyone agreed with each other or had the same perspective, then there wouldn't be a lot (or at least not so much) to talk about.

SorGan

Musashi wrote:

I've seen this type of split on other forums, they usually died off after it though. Why not retain the SD side of MA along with the Sporting? It does no harm and I'm not sure what the benefit would be for TMA over MMA protocols?

TMA can be lax on the "pressure testing" side of things. Equally "MMA" can let the "Street" stuff lag in favour of ring and Competition proven technique.

I think the best improvement is to be had from listening to both camps and taking on board the problems faced and learning how to deal with them.



If not on here then where? This is the "Self Defense" forum along with the "MArtial Arts" forum. If we can't look at actual assaults and decide on better ways of dealing with those threats then what are we at here? Reviewing the latest K1/UFC/Pride fights?

Those events, while entertaining, have a lot less relevance to me than an actual assault carried out here in our Country.

If you want to go ahead and lobby for a "Combat Sports" forum, then go right ahead. I can't help but feel a forum dedicated to similar thinking sports fans, would suit those fans better than a forum where their outlook is questioned. Maybe the TMA lads are more open to Constructive criticism than some MMA fans?

Check your quote please, i didnt post that at all..:eek:

SorGan

Mola.mola wrote:

A combat sports forum sounds like a great idea. With the exception of soccer this forum is probably the most active and used in the Sports Category so there would be plenty of interest to support two forums.

I'm the complete opposite to MOL, I don't think this forum is the place to hear about assault,robbery,attacks, there are other forums on boards.ie for that - dublin city, after hours.

A new forum would probably suit the "TMA" guys who feel threatened by MMA disscussion. Yeah, great idea Michael, Combat sports forum. Anyone else agree?

For the sake of clarity,mola was the poster of this.

Musashi

Sorry about that SorGan, changed the quote to reflect this

SorGan

Musashi wrote:

Sorry about that SorGan, changed the quote to reflect this

Cheers mate

Mola.mola

Ah yes, this is what Michael was referring to. Well, I still think Self Defense, Martial Arts and Combat Sports could be split into 3 different forums. I'd put self defense in the society section and keep MA and CS in the sports section. However it doesn't look like a very popular idea! So we'll just forget about. Acutally, SD and MA could probably stay together but just a new forum called Combat sports would be awesome to focus on Judo, BJJ, Wrestling - Greco/Freestyle/Folk/Collegiate/non-pro:), Muay Thai ("Boxing" has it's own forum) WTF TKD. It could also serve the MMA and similar show discussion. Well nevermind just an idea.