Low pocket pairs preflop.

BrokenArrows

Im never really sure how to play these preflop. especially 22,33 etc.
Usually just try and get a cheap flop but what happens of pot is raised preflop.

The reason im bring it up now today is because i was getting tonnes of 22 and 33 and most of the time there was a supstantial preflop raise before me.

Example Cash hand:
Blinds 5/10
Im in UTG+4 and UTG makes it 40 and all call to me. I decide to fold. After i folded i thought to myself, i should have called and what do you know i would have made a house. I was kinda pissed off at a bad beat in the last hand so i just felt like throwing the hand away and didnt really think about it. In hind sight i would have been getting decent value for my call.

But anyway how much to you think something like 22 is worth calling preflop.

ArmaniJeanss

BrokenArrows wrote:

But anyway how much to you think something like 22 is worth calling preflop.

Its dependant on the remaining stacks. You will flop a set 1 in 8 times so if the opponents raise is X BB then there must be enough in both your stacks that you can expect* to win 8X BB from the pot when you hit the set. Otherwise it is not worth calling.
Thats the way I operate anyway.


* Obviously some knowledge of your oppos post flop play, cont bets etc will help you.

DeVore

but not tonnes of 44? hmmmm weird.

Ok, here's my take on them. I love them. Love small pp's. They are so easy to play, and so profitable. You either hit your set and stack the guy or you dump it.

Anyway, preflop I limp with them. I call small raises if the stacks are deep enough and loose enough to pay me off. If they have about 8 times the raise left behind I'll call, particularly in position but I dont find it makes as much difference with these hands as its such a clear cut hand post flop.

They also afford you the chance to see a flop with good expectation and then perhaps play your opponent off the hand post flop or turn.

I love them, love them to bits. Can't tell you how many people simply never think about stealth sets when they are holding TPTK.

DeV.

shoutman

I'd agree with Dev here, the majority of times I'm limping with pocket pairs up to 77. With favourably conditions (deep stacked opponents) I'm calling raises x3 of the bb.
I think low pocket pairs are very easy to play as if you miss a set on the flop and someone bets into you, the majority of the time you are left with little decision as to whether or not your opponent has a better hand then you.

Play these hands as cheap as possible is what I'd reccommend.

Scotty #

DeVore wrote:

I love them, love them to bits. Can't tell you how many people simply never think about stealth sets when they are holding TPTK.

DeV.

Love them too and play them the same, maybe calling a 2x or 3x raise from a loose player, can be sooooo profitable.

I presume this is .5/.10. I'd be surprised at a player in $5/$10 asking this question.

Scotty #

shoutman wrote:

I'm limping with pocket pairs up to 77.

JJ for me. 99 in LP

shoutman

Scotty # wrote:

JJ for me. 99 in LP

Presumably you play higher stakes.

I'm mainly talking, low stakes STT/MTT's and micro stake Cash games.

I've come to the realisation that I've been playing hands like JJ/QQ too passively so play it a lot more aggressively now.

Sangre

If I'm on the button in a limped/folded pot I'll raise with probably anypair. A CB usually takes down the pot on the flop or I can usually stack someone if I hit a set.
Its very hard to get someone to put a lot of chips into an unraised pot.

DeVore

Sangre, the reasons you give for raising late with a PP work for about any two cards
Raise and a continuation may well take down the pot on the flop but you dont need a PP to do that. I agree though and do like raising late with PP's simply because it gives me a strong second way to take down the pot if I miss. I believe this is a good reason why Marq O has often been seen taking down pots with the monster that is 64o

DeV.

BrokenArrows

Scotty # wrote:

Love them too and play them the same, maybe calling a 2x or 3x raise from a loose player, can be sooooo profitable.

I presume this is .5/.10. I'd be surprised at a player in $5/$10 asking this question.

it actually was $5/$10.

Its much more than usually play for but the game had just started up in the casino i was in and i had nothing else to do and i could afford it so i just sat down.

It was ovious i was out of my league but i faired ok. Got a few good pots and called it a day after about 80 minutes.

My game needs some serious work before i go back to that table. Im really starting to take poker seriously now.

Im going to cut back on my play and start reading as much as i can. Havent done much reading on poker since i started playing.

Anyone reccomend any online articles/websites that are a must read,

Sangre

DeVore wrote:

Sangre, the reasons you give for raising late with a PP work for about any two cards
Raise and a continuation may well take down the pot on the flop but you dont need a PP to do that. I agree though and do like raising late with PP's simply because it gives me a strong second way to take down the pot if I miss. I believe this is a good reason why Marq O has often been seen taking down pots with the monster that is 64o

DeV.

Ah but at the levels I play at a set is much more secure . Some people will call nearly any raise off the blinds!

shoutman

BrokenArrows wrote:

Im going to cut back on my play and start reading as much as i can. Havent done much reading on poker since i started playing.,

The first thing you want to do if you are to improve your game is play more not less!

You can read as much as you as you want and yes it may improve your game, but in my opinion the best way to improve it is to play more, if everytime you play you make a mistake and understand what mistake you are making and rectify it then you will be improving your game continuously?

Do you use poker tracker?
I find the best way to improve your game is going over hand histories,
I know it can be a bit boring but it really is amazing how you can look at how you played a hand and go wow, I really should of done this or I really should of done that.

luckylucky

BrokenArrows wrote:

Im never really sure how to play these preflop. especially 22,33 etc.
Usually just try and get a cheap flop but what happens of pot is raised preflop.

The reason im bring it up now today is because i was getting tonnes of 22 and 33 and most of the time there was a supstantial preflop raise before me.

Example Cash hand:
Blinds 5/10
Im in UTG+4 and UTG makes it 40 and all call to me. I decide to fold. After i folded i thought to myself, i should have called and what do you know i would have made a house. I was kinda pissed off at a bad beat in the last hand so i just felt like throwing the hand away and didnt really think about it. In hind sight i would have been getting decent value for my call.

But anyway how much to you think something like 22 is worth calling preflop.

I think a fold here was fine, yeah so you would have got a house, how many other times would u have flopped jack sheit... the one thing u have got going for u is position but still what do the other guys have, the chances are there's other pairs out there and obviously enough they're higher than yours... so even if u hit ur set it which is over 7 to 1 against you cant feel superconfident that ur ahead and even when u hit ur set or in this case da full house - no guarnatees of getting paid off, i wont say never call here but I don't like a call with just 2s or 3s here, middle pairs and u can feel a lot happier about calling - but with ****ty pairs da vast majority of the time i think fold is the right choice. Anyway that's my opinion and i just have had a few beers but still feel a call would have been smelling of haddock if u know what I'm sayin.:)

luckylucky

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Its dependant on the remaining stacks. You will flop a set 1 in 8 times so if the opponents raise is X BB then there must be enough in both your stacks that you can expect* to win 8X BB from the pot when you hit the set. Otherwise it is not worth calling.
Thats the way I operate anyway.


* Obviously some knowledge of your oppos post flop play, cont bets etc will help you.

Another factor here is yes you will hit a set one in 8 times, but your set will not always be good enough don't forget - I read somewhere that one in 4 times that you hit your set you will lose with it and this sounds about right.

And when it is a winning hand far from guaranteed that you will get paid off to make it worth the call in the 1st place.

ArmaniJeanss

luckylucky wrote:

Another factor here is yes you will hit a set one in 8 times, but your set will not always be good enough don't forget - I read somewhere that one in 4 times that you hit your set you will lose with it and this sounds about right.

And when it is a winning hand far from guaranteed that you will get paid off to make it worth the call in the 1st place.

LL,
Your 1 in 4 is not close I don't think. I reckon its closer to about 1/12 times. (I'm doing this in my head. Lets say 33% of time your opponent raised with an overpair, then he's got about 1/6 shot of hitting a better set with the remaining 4 board cards. 1/6 of 33% = 5.5%. However the other 2/3 times that he raised with unpaired cards, its very very tough for him to outdraw your set).

I totally agree with you about the lack of a guarantee when getting paid off - thats why I said that its good to have some idea of the type of continuation bets your oppo makes, whether he fires another bullet on the turn etc.

connie147

luckylucky wrote:

Another factor here is yes you will hit a set one in 8 times, but your set will not always be good enough don't forget - I read somewhere that one in 4 times that you hit your set you will lose with it and this sounds about right.

And when it is a winning hand far from guaranteed that you will get paid off to make it worth the call in the 1st place.

Jesus,you make it sound like its bad news to hit a set.There is no better feeling than hitting a set against aggressive opponnents,and the FEW times you'll lose with them are more than compansated by the times you win.Go set hunting, and the more players in the pot pf,the better.