Which Vehicle ??

Mike2006

Another which car thread so here it goes:

Both New.

1. BMW 520d M-Tec
2. Range Rover Sport 2.7TD SE

Why?


Points:
a. I am fully aware that I could purchase a better/faster second hand car for less money but I choose to buy new because I like to have a new car and I don't mind parting with the money in this way. Besies, if people like me did not buy new cars, they people lke you would not get the great deals that you get on second hand cars later on. Rant Over.

b. I would be open to suggestion of another car/suv of similar price bracket (up to €70,000)

c. Not really looking for high performance. Speed limit is 120km/hr and both of these cars are more than capable of doing this.

Thanks,

Mike.

michaelanthony

The 520D sounds like a tractor. But Range Rover one sounds a lot better( it's used in jaguars)

TheBazman

Hi Mike

I am changing myself with a similar budget - seriously looking at the BMW m-sport diesels. Ideally I would like a new 530d but thats a bit expensive. The problem with going for an 05 is that some of the spec is different eg no push button start, no ipod connection port, not many second hands with xenons which I would like. These are small issues but spending that sort of money I would like these things - As a result I am leaning towards a new 520d with quite a few "extras"

I have considered a few others but not the range rover ( I would have thought that would be far more expensive??)
Touareg - nice but I would like the 3.0 v6 which again is a bit more expensive and I'm not ever sure I "need" a 4x4
Lexus IS220d - nice looking but very small inside and boot quite small
M3 - second hand - Is all that power wasted and it would be too tempting to do silly things (plus I've already had my fun with a powerful sports car)
Merc CLK - only two real seats in back and not a huge fan of mercs anyway

My twopence for what its worth

Baz

TheBazman

michaelanthony wrote:

The 520D sounds like a tractor. But Range Rover one sounds a lot better( it's used in jaguars)

I test drove the 520d and it sounded fine - but I cant compare it to the Range Rover

MercMad

I had a RR Sport for a week !

I suggest you test drive it, and if you survive without breaking any of the cheap flimsy plastic, thank your stars. I couldn't believe how "low rent" the materials felt. The grey plastic console and the interior door handles in particular !

When you consider that the real RR has one of the nicest interiors in the busisness, the Sport is just a disaster. BMW quality and engines are superb though i did like the way the RR Sport diesel drove !

Audi Q7 ??

el tel

My brother bought a 2005 530D Touring M-Tech from new. With all his options it cost him a whisker under €80k. It looks pretty good in Carbon black but it feels slow on the uptake and is cramped inside. Personally I think he wasted his money but that's his problem I suppose. Still, I'd say it is a much more sensible option over a Range Rover - had he got one of those I'd have refused to talk to him again!

Squirrel

http://www.carzone.ie/newcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Details&vehicle_id=42434020060601&strSpecs=SSCIRL2002

I just picked one out of the list. The A6 is a nice car I think

zuutroy

Mike2006 wrote:

Besies, if people like me did not buy new cars, they people lke you would not get the great deals that you get on second hand cars later on.

Thank you for your scraps oh master....

Anyway....BMW for me.

mc23

zuutroy wrote:

Thank you for your scraps oh master....

Mike2006

Thanks for the replies so far.

Obviously my quote was aimed at the people who always bash the new car buyers.

520d: One thing I did notice was that you really do need to load up the BMW with extras before you get a decent specd car and this costs a lot. €15k of extras goes very quickly...

Q7: Haven't seen one in the flesh yet so I can't comment. Again, the extras list could possibly be a killer.

Touareg: A possibility, but only 2.5tdi. They are getting plentiful at the moment so will be able to see what the residuals are like.

RR Sport: Haven't teat drove one yet but before I make a purchase I will try to hire out by final 2 for a week to try them out first.

A6: They are quite expensive for the badge which I would consider to be a bit below RR, Mercedes, BMW... They are a good looking car though.

I also quite like the Lexus GS but I haven't really researched it yet.

Mike.

ToxicPaddy

Ive heard from a few people that they found the 520d to be very under powered and the 530d is a much better car to drive. Might be worth considering it.. Tox

dubstub

Saw one of the Q7's the other day. Beautiful jeep. I picked up a Touareg last week and can't recommend them enough. Depending on what you want the extras can get steep very quickly though.
I went for the 2.5TDI - was very tempted by the V6 but the wait and the high running costs put me off it.

Anan1

If you can't quite stretch to a 530d then how about a 330d? Even a 320d might be a better drive than the 520d. Forget the Range Rover Sport unless you want people to look down their noses at you - it's the ultimate triumph of cash over class.

TheBazman

dubstub wrote:

Saw one of the Q7's the other day. Beautiful jeep. I picked up a Touareg last week and can't recommend them enough. Depending on what you want the extras can get steep very quickly though.
I went for the 2.5TDI - was very tempted by the V6 but the wait and the high running costs put me off it.

As regards running costs I have seen mixed info on the MPG. What are you getting from the 2.5?

smash

have to say a new 9-3 drop top could be nice... http://www.carzone.ie/newcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Details&vehicle_id=730257820050930&strSpecs=SSCIRL2002

unkel

Seems you're a bit like my brother in law. He constantly switches between BMW and MB and if he were in the market right now, he'd go RR Sport, although it is just that he likes the idea, he hasn't been in one yet and he doesn't seem to care how a car drives

Power is not important to you and neither is getting a good drivers' car, but you want style and class (and diesel)? Do you change car every year or will you keep it for a while?

How about the stylish CLS 320 CDI (a bit out of budget)? Or an alternative D4 tractor, like the X5 3.0d?

bazz26

dubstub wrote:

Saw one of the Q7's the other day. Beautiful jeep. I picked up a Touareg last week and can't recommend them enough. Depending on what you want the extras can get steep very quickly though.
I went for the 2.5TDI - was very tempted by the V6 but the wait and the high running costs put me off it.

The VW Touareg, Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayeanne are all built from the same platform afaik.

Mike2006

I usually change every 2 to 3 years.

CLS would be very nice but it is over budget.

SAAB - Never really considered one of those. I don't really know a whole lot about them to be honest (reliability, depreciation etc..)

X5 - Just don't like them. Did at the start but quickly grew out of them. A bit like I did with the Z3.

3 Series - interior too small.

Mike.

unkel

Mike2006 wrote:

SAAB - Never really considered one of those. I don't really know a whole lot about them to be honest (reliability, depreciation etc..)

Saabs are fine, but a 9-3 is the same size as a 3-series, so too small for you. Also it is built on the same platform as an Opel Vectra. I bet you don't like that idea

Mike2006 wrote:

CLS would be very nice but it is over budget

It is highly sought after, so depreciation will be very low. OK €15k over budget, but you'll get some of that back come resell time. Also auto transmission is standard. A car in this segment these days kinda needs to have auto to sell it on later

ismynametoolong

Does it have to be diesel a mate of mine has a Legacy Spec B with
all the goodies including sat Nav it think it is a 2.5 or 3.0 litre petrol amazing car and a looker too .

Mike2006

No offence to the Subaru gang but a Subaru is not exactly in the category of car that I would purchase, but thanks for the replies.

Shortlist:

1. RR Sport 2.7 TDV6 SE
2. 520d M-Tec
3. Touareg 2.5 TDi


a. Q7 is very expensive even with the base model.
b. Saab - Vectra !!! No thanks.
c. CLS - Just too expensive, plus 3L engine would be a killer on tax & insurance.
d. A6 - Just missing the cut in the 'looks' department.

Thanks again,

Mike.

unkel

Mike2006 wrote:

c. CLS - Just too expensive

Fair enough

Mike2006 wrote:

plus 3L engine would be a killer on tax & insurance

A new €70k car is going to depreciate by at least €10k in its first year. Tax and insurance is probably a few hundred bucks more on a 3 liter compared to a 2 liter. This is immaterial, don't let it give you a false sense of economy

Fey!

The 520d isn't too tractor-ish; a neighbour of mine has a new touring version in black which is really nice (haven't been an e60 fan up to now looks wise). However, get the likes of the MFSW, leather and dual climate if you can - I know that cruise was one of the must-have features when I bought - it may make it easier to resell. Also, the guy who sold my neighbour his told him to go manual, as it's be easier to resell (although I'm not so sure about this myself).

The RR Sport drives well, but I've only seen one REALLY nice looking one - again it was in black with a light factory tint. But do you really need a 4x4?

Toureg - have seen a few nice ones, but not my cup of tea.

Good luck with the decision (wish I could afford to have the same problem as you!!!)

Bluehair

unkel wrote:

A new €70k car is going to depreciate by at least €10k in its first year. Tax and insurance is probably a few hundred bucks more on a 3 liter compared to a 2 liter. This is immaterial, don't let it give you a false sense of economy

Exactly, never quite understood the mentally of spending this kind of money on a car and then fretting about relatively paltry sums in relation to engine size etc.

Buy a one year old CLS in the UK and get the best of every world (oh sorry, i forgot the bit where you don't mind throwing money away for a new car but do mind the extra tax and insurance of a 3.0 litre.... )

R.O.R

Here's my opinion:


BMW 520d M-Sport
Had some fairly good feedback about the 520d in general. Bit slow off the mark but the performance once going is supposed to be very good. I've driven a 320d and that was a flier, but the 520 is a good bit heavier. I've driven a 523 in traffic and it was very comfortable but the diesel is definately the one to go for. The standard spec on the M-Sport is fairly good so you wouldn't have to go mad on the options list. Half leather is standard as are parking sensors, climate control, electric seats etc. Availability isn't bad, my local dealer (Maxwell's) has a Carbon Black Auto available within 10 days.

RV wise you'd be looking at around €27,000 as a trade in based on 3yrs / 60,000 miles.


Range Rover Sport 2.7TDV6 SE
Favourite vehicle I have driven. Again slowish off the mark but once going an absolute cracker. Really don't know why they didn't use the bi-turbo version of the engine that goes in to the S-Type Jag. Price would be higher than the BMW but the RV over 3yrs / 60,000 miles is expected to be around €37,000 as a trade in. SE spec is very good, Full leather as standard. Waiting times on these could be fairly long. I've been quoted 4-6 Months for delivery.


VW Toureg.
Drove a diesel one of these last week. Not bad, but not a patch on the Range Rover. Standard spec is a bit stingy so the (extensive) options list would come in to play. Whatever you do, do not go anywhere near the petrol version. Drove one of those last year that a customer gave back (at a cost) after less than a year as he would rather cycle in to work. Gearbox couldn't make up it's mind and the fuel consumption was appaling (22mpg at 70mph on the motorway).

RV for the diesel would be looking at €32 - €33K based on 3yrs / 60,000 miles.



If it were me and I had the cash (I wish) I'd probably wait for a Range Rover. If I wanted something now I'd go for the BMW. Wouldn't consider the Toureg due to problems with VW reliability and service issues - same for Merc ML.

dubstub

TheBazman wrote:

As regards running costs I have seen mixed info on the MPG. What are you getting from the 2.5?

Been getting 23.5 mpg but that's been pure city driving - will see how it does on motorways and long distances after this weekend.

The VW Touareg, Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayeanne are all built from the same platform afaik.

Yep, sure are. Same chassis underpins all three cars.

MercMad

If it were me and I had the cash (I wish) I'd probably wait for a Range Rover. If I wanted something now I'd go for the BMW. Wouldn't consider the Toureg due to problems with VW reliability and service issues - same for Merc ML

..............I dont think you can compare the old ML to the new one. The new ones appear to be doing very well !

It the quality in the Range Rover that is shockingly poor !

I dunno about the looks of the Toerag, VW always get the wheel/tire aspect ratio to the body worked out well but not in this case !

It looks awful IMO !

ismynametoolong

. Wouldn't consider the Toureg due to problems with VW reliability and service issues - same for Merc ML.[/QUOTE]


Are you seriously implying that the RR is more reliable than the VW . There both over priced unnecessary muscle show machines but i know i certainly wouldnt have anything with the word ROVER on it regardless of who owns or produces them now !!

maidhc

ismynametoolong wrote:

Are you seriously implying that the RR is more reliable than the VW . There both over priced unnecessary muscle show machines but i know i certainly wouldnt have anything with the word ROVER on it regardless of who owns or produces them now !!

Ford's Premier Automotive Group do... same people who make Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Volvo

R.O.R

MercMad wrote:

..............I dont think you can compare the old ML to the new one. The new ones appear to be doing very well !

The new ML is by all accounts a very good machine - I'm just going off the fact that our FD's 3 week old one has been pi55ing oil out of the gearbox all over the car park and is now in with Pottery Road, where no doubt it will lounge for weeks before a half-arsed repair attempt is made.


Think that more or less says it all about Mercedes build quality and dealer service - bearing in mind I work for their largest customer!

ismynametoolong

maidhc wrote:

Ford's Premier Automotive Group do... same people who make Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Volvo

The RR is manufactured in Solihull UK enough said me thinks !!

R.O.R

ismynametoolong wrote:

The RR is manufactured in Solihull UK enough said me thinks !!

Nissan and Honda both build cars in the UK as well, don't often hear of reliabilty issues with any of their cars do you? Or are you just implying it's folk from the Midlands who can't build cars rather than the English in general?

ismynametoolong

R.O.R wrote:

Nissan and Honda both build cars in the UK as well, don't often hear of reliabilty issues with any of their cars do you? Or are you just implying it's folk from the Midlands who can't build cars rather than the English in general?

I woundered how long it would take for the above to be quoted ! The only reason any manufacturer outside the EU chose the UK was purely because of the not too long lifted import restrictions imposed by the UK to protect its back .The only reason they still remain is Gov support and allowances.

Fey!

Based on local dealerships service (from what I've heard from my own customers):

VW - service bad
Merc - same dealer as VW. A story goes that a guy broke down in the middle of race week 2 years ago; the local dealer who sold the brand new car a couple of weeks earlier wouldn't respond. Moores sent a mechanic in a van down from Athlone and got it sorted.

RR - Excellent reputation. Their workshop manager has just won the Jaguar Worldwide Mechanic Competition in the UK, and, IIRC, their 4x4 guy has won a few of the Landrover competitions. Customer service is top notch (I speak from experience; we've bought 3 cars there ourselves over the years, and they do all of our work that doesn't require diagnostics. Several of my friends have bought there as a result, and enjoy the same quality of service).

colm_mcm

I'd go with the BMW, I can't see the Range Rover Sport enjoying the same kudos as it's big brother, also with the new Freelander doing a "Mini-Me" I don't see the appeal.

(it should be noted that I haven't driven the RR Sport)

Ice_Box

I vote for the 5 series. I grew up on a farm and I just associate the Range Rover type things with with cows and horses.

Anan1

Ice_Box wrote:

I vote for the 5 series. I grew up on a farm and I just associate the Range Rover type things with with cows and horses.

That's old Range Rovers, the new Sport is rather more Victoria Beckham.;)

maidhc

Anan1 wrote:

That's old Range Rovers, the new Sport is rather more Victoria Beckham.;)

Shame too. The original RR was a lovely machine that looked like it was able to do a days work.

TheBazman

Test drove a 530d and 520d today, both m-sport, auto,2006 - Both lovely cars but I think I would be quite happy with the 520d - save yourself 10-15k.

unkel

TheBazman wrote:

Test drove a 530d and 520d today, both m-sport, auto,2006 - Both lovely cars but I think I would be quite happy with the 520d - save yourself 10-15k.

Yes the 2 liter 520d is by no means underpowered. It is quite fast for a large executive saloon with a 0-100km/h acceleration in 8.6 seconds (same figure for manual and automatic transmission). This is a good bit quicker than the 3 liter Touareg diesel to put things into perspective. Oh and the Range Rover sport has about the same acceleration as a supermini :rolleyes:

The OP stated that performance is not important though

The 520d would use a lot less fuel than any Touareg or Range Rover Sport

colm_mcm

520d M-sport will be a smasher second hand. I'd go with that.

Lex Luthor

Mike2006 wrote:

Another which car thread so here it goes:

Both New.

1. BMW 520d M-Tec
2. Range Rover Sport 2.7TD SE

Why?


Points:
a. I am fully aware that I could purchase a better/faster second hand car for less money but I choose to buy new because I like to have a new car and I don't mind parting with the money in this way. Besies, if people like me did not buy new cars, they people lke you would not get the great deals that you get on second hand cars later on. Rant Over.

b. I would be open to suggestion of another car/suv of similar price bracket (up to €70,000)

c. Not really looking for high performance. Speed limit is 120km/hr and both of these cars are more than capable of doing this.

Thanks,

Mike.

Seem like 2 different types of vehicle if you ask me....I could understand a 520d v's a MB E220d or a RR v's X5 ???