Why?

Victor

It has been noted that Transport 21 strictly limits the DART extensions on the Northern and South Western lines to county Dublin.

On the map here, Maynooth, Sallins and Hazelhatch (all Kildare*) and Greystones (Wicklow) don't get maps, presumably because they aren't "Dublin" enough.

However Leixlip Louisa and Confey are also Kildare and Bray is in Wicklow.


* Hazelhatch is close enough to the Dublin-Kildare border, but serves Celbridge, which is in Kildare.

ball ox

are Leixlip and Confey not part of Co. Dublin? I live in Celbridge and know that cab drivers seem to think they are anyway......

Victor

While this map seems to think Lucan is also in Kildare, it is roughly correct in the location of other towns (insofar as they are in Kildare, Naas isn't on the Naas bypass, I disown the map for all other purposes).

http://www.countykildare.com/kildare_map.htm

अधिनायक

Victor wrote:

On the map here, Maynooth, Sallins and Hazelhatch (all Kildare*) and Greystones (Wicklow) don't get maps, presumably because they aren't "Dublin" enough.

This is a Dublin Transportation Office map.

Maybe Meath and Kildare CoCos would like to provide maps of their stations when they can spare a minute from littering their counties with one off houses to feed their commuter motorway cul de sacs.

Do you think Transport 21 should have provided for more long distance commuting into Dublin? I'm glad it didn't. Priority should be to make travel within the city more viable without a car rather than to provide even more incentives to people working in Dublin to live miles outside the city.

Why should there be a motorway or a commuter rail line to Navan? Just because a sizable number of its inhabitants wake up there every day and decide it's worthwhile spending two hours getting to Dublin. Let's spend the money on making it easier to get around Dublin for the people who have chosen to live there. Why should parts of Meath and Kildare be given far faster links into the city centre than people from finglas or coolock or rathfarnham?

If thousands of Navan residents are happy to spend 2 hours in traffic every morning getting into Dublin, imagine how many more crappy estate houses will be built out there to house Dublin residents once the transport links improve.

dr zoidberg

Interesting point Victor especially when you note that the DART extensions have been contained for whatever reason to the Metropolitan area. Political interference of some sort maybe.

The station maps seem to be taken from the DTO journey planner provided by Mapflow. While Leixlip & Celbridge towns are covered Hazelhatch is not (and is maybe 2km from Celbridge village), the aerial photograph does not cover that area. In Leixlip's case the stations are actually in the town so any aerial photograph would have to include them, otherwise I doubt they'd be given.

Maynooth and Greystones are neither mapped nor photographed for whatever reason by Mapflow and station maps could therefore not be given until this is done.
[edit - Maynooth & Greystones are in fact mapped, however they don't show on the map until you zoom in - maybe they are recent additions? ]

ball ox wrote:

are Leixlip and Confey not part of Co. Dublin? I live in Celbridge and know that cab drivers seem to think they are anyway......

No, in my experience they insist it's Co Kildare so that they can nearly double the fare, although technically you should be able to charged by the meter if you get out before the Salmon leap bridge over the Liffey.

Victor wrote:

While this map seems to think Lucan is also in Kildare, it is roughly correct in the location of other towns (insofar as they are in Kildare, Naas isn't on the Naas bypass, I disown the map for all other purposes).

http://www.countykildare.com/kildare_map.htm

That map isn't the best, but to clear things up the dot marked Leixlip should be Confey and the one marked Lucan should be Leixlip, like this map from the KCC website.

Google Earth thinks Leixlip is in Dublin as well, and there's a big sign with Fingal County Council on it when you enter from the Lucan side so confusion is understandable. The Gardaí consider Leixlip is Dublin too, it's in the DMR (as is Bray and Greystones but not Maynooth or Celbridge).

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

This is a Dublin Transportation Office map.

Yes, and the Dublin Metropolitan Area officially extends from Kilcock to Swords to Greystones.

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Maybe Meath and Kildare CoCos would like to provide maps of their stations when they can spare a minute from littering their counties with one off houses to feed their commuter motorway cul de sacs.

That's not really fair, KCC at least have gotten very strict on one-off housing to the point that a Kildare South politician was complaining about the new development plan, which doesn't allow it. By and large the GDA authorities have gotten their act together on this one. Kildare is the most urbanised county after Dublin by the way.

I do however have a problem with their poor provision of leisure and social facilities and zoning land for development in villages that were not supposed to significantly grow under the planning guidelines (Straffan, Clane etc). But that's another topic.

Navan Junction

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

This is a Dublin Why should parts of Meath and Kildare be given far faster links into the city centre than people from finglas or coolock or rathfarnham?

If thousands of Navan residents are happy to spend 2 hours in traffic every morning getting into Dublin, imagine how many more crappy estate houses will be built out there to house Dublin residents once the transport links improve.

Navan was only an hour from Dublin until a few years ago.

And as most of the workforce commute from Meath and Kildare to Dublin, how they get into Dublin makes it your problem too.

If they all drive, Dublin stays gridlocked.

And by the way, there aren't enough houses/apartments in Dublin, hence the sprawl - it's not as if there are homes lying empty in Dublin whilst people choose to spend 2 hours in traffic.

If you had a young family and were trying to buy your first home, where would you buy it?

Where you could afford it, most likely. And for many that is outside Dublin.

Irrespective of what could have been done differently, we are where we are. The trick is to do things better in future.

And remember, Navan is less than 30 miles from Dublin city centre. On bad traffic days, that trip can take 2.5hrs which would give you an average speed of less than 13mph. On good days for much of the year it ain't that much faster.

However, you do have a point. Dublin is a traffic mess.

The one off housing situation isn't as liberal as you think - I know plenty of people that can't get permissions for the areas they come from in Meath.

With that said though, the area around Navan is the most densely built rural area in the country.

अधिनायक

I'm amazed you can discuss this rationally given that your login indicates your devotion to Navan transport.

Navan Junction wrote:

And as most of the workforce commute from Meath and Kildare to Dublin,

Most of which workforce? The working age population of Kildare and Meath?

how they get into Dublin makes it your problem too. If they all drive, Dublin stays gridlocked.

I'd prefer if they drove to the city limits and boarded commuter trains. I'd prefer it more if they lived in Dublin and used public transport to get to work. It's important to make it more expensive in time or money to live in the stix and travel into Dublin every day so that people don't think this is a rational choice.

And by the way, there aren't enough houses/apartments in Dublin, hence the sprawl - it's not as if there are homes lying empty in Dublin whilst people choose to spend 2 hours in traffic.

You are right. There is plenty of land but dumb zoning has limited the density and we've only just copped on that Clondalkin type prairies and semi-d wilderness is not some kind of utopian ideal.

If you had a young family and were trying to buy your first home, where would you buy it?Where you could afford it, most likely. And for many that is outside Dublin.

Yes and if motorways and new commuter rails are built, these locations will look even more attractive, to Dublin's loss. For the price of a rural bungalow palace, you can buy a family house in clondalkin or ballyfermot. Not the poshest but better than being a stranger to the family.

Irrespective of what could have been done differently, we are where we are. The trick is to do things better in future.

Yes I agree completely. That's why the first thing we should do is to stop incentivising people to live 30 miles from where they work. We should not build motorways that are primarily to be used for commuting because that results in more cars in the city and the M50. Adamstown is a good start density-wise but I'm sorry it's not nearer to the city centre. I'd like to see darndale and many other failed experiments flattened and replaced with Adamstown type density. Sadly this would be difficult due to the sell off of council housing.

And remember, Navan is less than 30 miles from Dublin city centre.

Remember, rathfarnham, finglas and coolock are all within 5 miles of Dublin city centre.

On bad traffic days, that trip can take 2.5hrs which would give you an average speed of less than 13mph. On good days for much of the year it ain't that much faster.

What about someone who lives 6 miles from Dublin center and finds it often takes over an hour for the journey? So you're already at an advantage to that Dubliner 13mph vs 6mph.

The one off housing situation isn't as liberal as you think - I know plenty of people that can't get permissions for the areas they come from in Meath.

Statistics tell another story. 80% of one-off housing applications are getting approval now (says Eamon O Cuiv) and 40% of house builds nationally are one-offs (says the ESB). Policy is to encourage people to live like antisocial hermits and then pick and choose between any of 4 Meath motorways to drive to Dublin every day.

With that said though, the area around Navan is the most densely built rural area in the country.

6 per acre from the last census.

Every mile of commuting infrastructure within Dublin serves many more people than the equivalent in a dormitory county. By its nature, links to satellite towns will only be lightly used outside of peak hours, unlike in Dublin.