Penalty Points Expiry

thewing

Took a search, can't find anything that answers my question.

Got 2 points on Fri, 160k on kildare by-pass(120 the limit).It was a fair cop, but can't see how gunning people on a road designed for speed saves lives, but anyway.....my question is, my points remain on my licence till july 2009, if I (and I don't plan to) pick up another 2 points in december, lasting till dec 2009, will the first 2 expire before the 2nd 2?Or will all 4 points expire at same time?

MercMad

If you got stopped last Frida, you wont officially have points 'till you recieve notification is about 6/7 weeks time. They will last 3 years from that time. Any more will start and finish in the same way, ie. the first points will expire earlier !!

thewing

Cheers MercMad

Not as bad as I feared so.Drove from limerick to dub yesterday with the needle on the limit whole way and made it up in good time, so my speeding days are over...funny tho only ever floored it on the motorway, always stuck to limit on national and back roads....

gyppo

Its a pity they only could give you two points.

thewing

Why that now?

gyppo

Anyone doing 100mph on a road where the limit is 75mph deserves to lose their licence.

Seth Brundle

gyppo wrote:

Anyone doing 100mph on a road where the limit is 75mph deserves to lose their licence.

we no longer have imperial speed limits - didn't you know?

Also doing 160kmph on a clear dry motorway is IMO safer than doing 50 in a resedential area!

gyppo

Ok, if you want to be pedantic:

Anyone doing 160 kilometers/hour on a road where the limit is 120 kilometers/hour deserves to lose their licence.

thewing

By the same token, people caught drink driving deserved to be dragged out of the car and shot.

I broke the law, and I was over the limit, but as I said already motorway is a road designed to for speed.Breaking the limit on national or back roads is crazy as far as I'm concerned, but people do it there more often as they know they won't be caught, hence vast majority of road deaths occuring on those type of roads.

gyppo

@ OP,
Whilst I might not agree completely with your theory on motorway speeds, I admire your honesty for holding your hands up and admitting you were wrong. Fair play to you on that aspect.

I believe that a motorway is designed for speed, but at 160kmh, you really need to be looking a long way ahead of you, and anticipating the actions of dozy twits who dont realise how fast you are coming up behind them.

Seth Brundle

gyppo wrote:

Ok, if you want to be pedantic:

Im not - you suddenly converted the discussed speed limits into mph - something we don't use.

gyppo wrote:

Anyone doing 160 kilometers/hour on a road where the limit is 120 kilometers/hour deserves to lose their licence.

I accept your beliefs. However, you can explain why this should be the case.

thewing

gyppo wrote:

I believe that a motorway is designed for speed, but at 160kmh, you really need to be looking a long way ahead of you, and anticipating the actions of dozy twits who dont realise how fast you are coming up behind them.

Well the road is as straight as a die, so I can anticipate quite a bit ahead of me.Anyway, this is futile now, cos I won't be doing it again.I actually think you need to be more wary on the motorway when sticking to the limit, cos when your speeding your only concern is what is ahead and to the left, when in slow lane, it's what is ahead, to the right and behind.

I think they should raise Mway limit to 130/140 and lower back road limit to 70 in some sections.Doing 80/100 kmh on some sections of road in this country is ridiculous, never know what's around the corner(diggers, cows, children, walkers, cyclists).

gyppo

@kbannon,

Fair point, I did convert. However, I, (and I'm sure many others) still think in mph, and therefore expressing speeds in mph gives a more meaningful expression of speed.

Earlier post -> I believe that a motorway is designed for speed, but at 160kmh, you really need to be looking a long way ahead of you, and anticipating the actions of dozy twits who dont realise how fast you are coming up behind them.

My fear on the motorways is what other people will suddenly do. Its bad enough that someone will suddenly change lane at 120kmh, never mind when you are travelling 33% faster again.
Taking it from the other viewpoint, if you were about to change lanes, looked behind you and saw a dot 0.5km away, how are you to know when this car will be on top of you? What speed is it doing? 120kmh? 160kmh? 200kmh?

Speed limits are there for a good reason. If the speed limit on motorways was changed to 160kmh, I would have no objection. Then we would all be singing off the same hymnsheet!

thewing

@gyppo

That's another fair point.Some people have not found their indicator switch yet, whereas others engage it as they execute their indicated actions, which is too late.Im driving on motoryways(M50, M7, M4) a fair bit, and the vast majority of people have no clue, which in that case makes speed dangerous(don't speed when many cars about, had practically open road on fri nite).Driving 2 feet behind the car in front doing 120Kmh is bananas, really dangerous.

SonOfPerdition

gyppo wrote:

@kbannon,

Fair point, I did convert. However, I, (and I'm sure many others) still think in mph, and therefore expressing speeds in mph gives a more meaningful expression of speed.
!

anyone who still thinks in mph should be banned off the road. :rolleyes:

SonOfPerdition

gyppo wrote:

@kbannon,

Fair point, I did convert. However, I, (and I'm sure many others) still think in mph, and therefore expressing speeds in mph gives a more meaningful expression of speed.

Earlier post -> I believe that a motorway is designed for speed, but at 160kmh, you really need to be looking a long way ahead of you, and anticipating the actions of dozy twits who dont realise how fast you are coming up behind them.

My fear on the motorways is what other people will suddenly do. Its bad enough that someone will suddenly change lane at 120kmh, never mind when you are travelling 33% faster again.
Taking it from the other viewpoint, if you were about to change lanes, looked behind you and saw a dot 0.5km away, how are you to know when this car will be on top of you? What speed is it doing? 120kmh? 160kmh? 200kmh?

Speed limits are there for a good reason. If the speed limit on motorways was changed to 160kmh, I would have no objection. Then we would all be singing off the same hymnsheet!

Nervous drivers with poor observation skills should be banned off the road.

gyppo

Sticks tongue out @SoP

comanche

gyppo wrote:

Ok, if you want to be pedantic:

Anyone doing 160 kilometers/hour on a road where the limit is 120 kilometers/hour deserves to lose their licence.

oh get off that high horse/troll. you know nothing about the road conditions or anything.

so should anyone who does 160kmph on the autobahn be considered a menace to others? remember that alot of them are 2 lane motorways like our own?

If it warrented dangerous driving then the garda would have given a ticket for dangerous driving also.

declanoneill

comanche wrote:

If it warrented dangerous driving then the garda would have given a ticket for dangerous driving also.

Slightly off topic, but there was a guy in court that go away with a dangerous driving charge for doing 155kph in a 100kph zone (somewhere around the red cow I think). Judge said speeding alone did not qualify dangerous driving (he got the points for speeding though).

I don't think 160kph in a 120 zone should be a banning offense, but anyone doing that speed can't complain if they get caught (not that the OP was complaining).

gyppo

@ commanche,

if you took the time and trouble to read the thread correctly, you would have seen that I would have have no problem with a speed limit of 160kmh.
My point was that everyone should be governed by the speed limit.

afaik, there are no autobahns in this country.

I dont know what the road conditions were - what I do know is the OP was going 33% faster than the legal limit.

neacy69

comanche wrote:

oh get off that high horse/troll. you know nothing about the road conditions or anything.

so should anyone who does 160kmph on the autobahn be considered a menace to others? remember that alot of them are 2 lane motorways like our own?

If it warrented dangerous driving then the garda would have given a ticket for dangerous driving also.

I hate when people dont read the full thread before posting

if you look at gyppo second last post (??) he clearly says that if the limits were changed to 160kph then everybody be in the same position (on the same hymnsheet) making it easier to judges distances between cars and the like. When the limit is 120kph and some twit is doing 160kph how are you supposed to anticipate his actions if he is coming behind/along side/under you 33% faster than he is supposed to without you knowing...

ps there is a point in the rant there somewhere

gyppo

Thank you Neacy69

thewing

So are you telling me when you look in your rearview, you can't tell if someone is bombing up behind you?

Do you look in your mirror, indicate, move and hope for best.

Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Move....

ibanezjem

[QUOTE=thewing
Got 2 points on Fri, 160k on kildare by-pass(120 the limit).It was a fair cop, but can't see how gunning people on a road designed for speed saves lives
[/QUOTE]

Irish roads are designed for public transport, race tracks are designed for speed. Perhaps you got the two mixed up!!

neacy69

thewing wrote:

So are you telling me when you look in your rearview, you can't tell if someone is bombing up behind you?

Do you look in your mirror, indicate, move and hope for best.

Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Move....

hope for the fcuking best- please say your not telling me to hope that some twit wont kill me just cos he's in a hurry

gyppo

thewing wrote:

So are you telling me when you look in your rearview, you can't tell if someone is bombing up behind you?

Do you look in your mirror, indicate, move and hope for best.

Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Move....

When I look in the mirror, I used to hope that whoever was coming up behind was travelling within the limits of the law. Unfortunately, all you see now are clowns who don't believe in obeying speed limits, "bombing up behind you".

thewing

neacy69 wrote:

hope for the fcuking best- please your not telling me to hope that some twit wont kill me just cos he's in a hurry

I wouldn't want anyone to be 'hoping' anything while driving, should always be sure of what your doing on the road.

A factor of driving on irish roads is having to factor in for idiots - speeding/lack of indication etc.

Just to reiterate, I was caught on fri nite, no other cars ahead, to the side or behind.Road was clear and dry.I don't speed when there is traffic about, and won't be speeding in any situation again...

@ibanezjem - yeah, your right.Only thing is, when know one else on it, don't feel too public!!But your right, and I was wrong.

gyppo

thewing wrote:

A factor of driving on irish roads is having to factor in for idiots - speeding/lack of indication etc.

I presume you are including yourself in this category.

thewing

@gyppo

I've admitted my guilt, if you want to start the name calling I refuse to oblige.

gyppo

Fair enough, point taken

neacy69

gyppo wrote:

Fair enough, point taken

dont you mean "points given"

sorry Wingman couldnt resist

Drax

Geeez.... Some people...

When are people going to learn that driving is a mixture of common sense, observation and the ability to anticipate whats going to happen. Yes, you should be well able to anticipate 'someone bombing up behind you'. Speed limits are set by someone who has to cover all possible conditions and scenarios that could happen on that road. As we know, there are many speed limits around this country that are not suitable for the road they govern. I am also of the opinion that 160km/h on a motorway is a perfectly acceptable speed under the correct conditions. However I stick to the speed limits simply because of the law. I drove on a two lane autobahn last month at 190km/h while being overtaken by other cars, Golfs etc. nothing special.

@gyppo: Are you saying that your no 160km/h rule would apply to someone driving on an empty motorway also?

Its the lack of driver education and idiocy of drivers in this country that make driving here so dangerous. The amount of ejits who dont indicate or tailgate in this country is astounding. Again, over in the continent, the quality of driver skill is superior, simply because the system doesnt allow them to just jump in a car and drive when, where and how they want to.

I drive a bike also and one of the things you learn is called a 'life-saver'. This is simply looking over your shoulder to check for vehicles, no matter what you see in the mirrors. I also apply this rule to car driving.

I'd like to see those chevrons on motorways/dc's in this country like on the continent - you are supposed to be able to see two of them at any time ensuring a safe distance to the vehicle in front.

thewing

LOL @neacy69!!

gyppo

Drax wrote:

Geeez.... Some people...

When are people going to learn that driving is a mixture of common sense, observation and the ability to anticipate whats going to happen. Yes, you should be well able to anticipate 'someone bombing up behind you'. Speed limits are set by someone who has to cover all possible conditions and scenarios that could happen on that road. As we know, there are many speed limits around this country that are not suitable for the road they govern. I am also of the opinion that 160km/h on a motorway is a perfectly acceptable speed under the correct conditions. However I stick to the speed limits simply because of the law. I drove on a two lane autobahn last month at 190km/h while being overtaken by other cars, Golfs etc. nothing special.

@gyppo: Are you saying that your no 160km/h rule would apply to someone driving on an empty motorway also?

Its the lack of driver education and idiocy of drivers in this country that make driving here so dangerous. The amount of ejits who dont indicate or tailgate in this country is astounding. Again, over in the continent, the quality of driver skill is superior, simply because the system doesnt allow them to just jump in a car and drive when, where and how they want to.

I drive a bike also and one of the things you learn is called a 'life-saver'. This is simply looking over your shoulder to check for vehicles, no matter what you see in the mirrors. I also apply this rule to car driving.

I'd like to see those chevrons on motorways/dc's in this country like on the continent - you are supposed to be able to see two of them at any time ensuring a safe distance to the vehicle in front.

Drax, if you read the full thread, you will see that I have no problem with a 160kmh speed limit on a motorway, provided it is a legal limit and applies to all.
At the moment, the legal permitted limit under optimum driving conditions (such as empty, dry, ) is 120kmh.

elexes

if you are in the overtaking lane and you are holding up traffic behind you then you should not be in the overtaking lane .

i think this topic has gone way off the op's question which i think was answered in the second or third post

if you want to discuss why people in this country can go over 120k then id suggest making a new thread . personally i know of 2 roads that i would consider good enough for a 140k speed limit ( m1 from airport exit - the end ) ( m7 portlaoise - cant rember just before the roadworks start )

dont forget to inform your insurance company of the points. gyppo made good points stop taking his head off

thewing

I'll wait for renewal

M7 was the road I was on....

Yup way off topic....

comanche

gyppo wrote:

@ commanche,

if you took the time and trouble to read the thread correctly, you would have seen that I would have have no problem with a speed limit of 160kmh.
My point was that everyone should be governed by the speed limit.

afaik, there are no autobahns in this country.

I dont know what the road conditions were - what I do know is the OP was going 33% faster than the legal limit.

No you have no problem with a 160kmph speed limit. but you do have a problem with the driver being 33% faster than the speed limit. Does that make him a dangerous driver, does it mean he should recieve an automatic ban?

Personally I have no problem with someone breaking the speed limit when the conditions allow it once they are willing to accept the consequences (and the OP did accept one of the possible consequence of driving at 160kmph).

gyppo

comanche wrote:

No you have no problem with a 160kmph speed limit. but you do have a problem with the driver being 33% faster than the speed limit. Does that make him a dangerous driver, does it mean he should recieve an automatic ban?

Personally I have no problem with someone breaking the speed limit when the conditions allow it once they are willing to accept the consequences (and the OP did accept one of the possible consequence of driving at 160kmph).

Yes, I believe it does make him a dangerous driver. Someone who believes that they should drive at a speed 33% faster than the maximum allowed appears to have no respect for the law, themselves, or most importantly, other road users. Speed limits are a set of rules applied for good reasons. The consequences of an accident at such a speed dont bear thinking about.
To re-iterate: anyone who drives up to 33% faster than other road users are allowed to pose's a distinct danger to other road users, regardless of how good this driver is (or purports to be).

To be speeding at a level over 33% of the maximum permitted level should warrant at least more than 2 points.It should not matter that the road was quiet, dry, etc.. - the rules of the road must apply to all users, and must be enforced.
I think the OP in fairness has been upfront in admitting his wrongdoing. I also think he got away lightly, and that there should be more punitive penalties for drivers who reach these speeds.

My name is Mud

thewing wrote:

...and won't be speeding in any situation again...

The system works!

Back on topic for a second,

I was caught in July 2003 on the Nass Road (opp. Joels, just off the M50 exit), heading towards the Belgard Road. I was doing 50 mph and it was a 40 mph zone. I was unaware the limit was 40mph, as I could have sworn the sign said 50mph.

Anyways, Im holding my hand up and saying, yes, I was going over the speed limit, its a fair cop (I was caught by the unmarked transit van camera). I received the notice in October 2003. I paid the fine and took the 2 points within a week. The limit on that section of road has sinced been raised to 80 kph (50 mph). I did inform my insurance company when I received the notice in October 2003, and they took note on my policy, and factored this into my premium.

Since then, I have been extra careful not to go over the speed limit on any road, and also have bought a car with cruise control (best thing ever for the open roads - no worries, just point and drive, the speed stays the same - I love it!)

According to the Department of Transport, the points wont expire until December 2006 :eek: , as the points were not applied to my licence until that date.

2 Questions coming up....

1. Should my points have been applied from October 2003, when I paid the fine (admission of guilt) and took the points?

2. Do I have any legal challenge over
a) the points not being applied until Dec 2003?
and
b) the limit on the road being raised to the speed that I was actually caught at?

Seth Brundle

re #1 - to answer your question, yes they should have but in the silly world of Irish law and government bureaucracy this isn't the case - the date you pay the fine and the date points are applied are separate.

#2a - no legal grounds AFAIK
#2b - you broke the law of the time. Whatever law comes into force after the date of your offence is irrelevant.