Dog Bite

fathersymes

My dog a Jack Russell went into a frenzy today, bit my girlfriend badly. Went to the doctor and he demanded he be put down saying it is the law. Is this true?

He attacked for no reason, simply being patted at the time. We have a decision to make as to whether a trip to the vet is the most responsible thing to do and have him put down on monday. This is a difficult thing to do to a much loved pet, but the danger is he will attack again.

All comments welcome.

EGAR

No dog attacks without reason. Be it something you missed or be there organic reasons It is not law that a dog which bites has to be destroyed automatically.

How long have you had him? How old is he?

Sangre

According to the law you've been put on notice of his 'mischievous propensity' and you are now fully liable for damages caused by future attacks.

Our man in Havana

Does your dog have any sore spots on his body?? Maybe your GF patted him & it HURT therefore its natural to snap & hurt the person that hurts you.

What does your say? is she ok?? Discuss this as a couple & see how you feel.

If it were me & the bite was not bad then I would give the dog a second chance.

Ruu_Old

I don't know about Ireland but here the dog would be put in quarantine for a month, thats the law in the US. Do whatever you think is best anyway, if he had some sort of a behaviour problem then maybe bring him to obedience school.

Misticles

my friends dog bit a child (nearest thing) when a man put his leg between his own dog nad my mates dog to stop them fighting.. her dad had to get teh dog put down because the neighbours wre apparrently scared of this big mad wolf in the back garden.. i dont think its the law, although, i think your gf can demand to have it put down.

Ruu_Old

I dont see anything about the dog having to be put down here. Certain animals have be kept on leashes or muzzled but not a jack russell. You would be liable for any injury received by a third party as Sangre said and you have to keep your dog under control.

EGAR

Ruu, there is no rabies in Ireland.

Ruu_Old

EGAR wrote:

Ruu, there is no rabies in Ireland.

Sorry too used to American laws, cheerfully withdrawn.

EGAR

No worries

Duras

Bond-007 wrote:

If it were me & the bite was not bad then I would give the dog a second chance.

A second chance for what? To do a really bad bite?

I think putting him down is the best thing to do even you care about him a lot. There is definitely smth wrong with the dog if he attacks ppl he knows with no reason...

peasant

As EGAR and Bond said, there HAS to be a reason why he bit your girlfriend. Either there is something physically wrong with your dog (i.e. pain somewhere that she touched by accident) or he gave out warning signals beforehand , that you missed.

I would take him to the vet ... not to put him down, but to get him thoroughly examined.

Jules

think there is a very difficult decision here and there are valid points on both sides,

yes put him to sleep as do you want to to bite again and maybe it will not be someone close to you child/neighbour etc where they can go to the police and demand the dog be pts

or

no, dogs do not attack for no reason, something had to happen, a provocation or pain, signals that were missed....

my opinion

i think dogs do not attack for no reason, but you have to understand they need very little provocation, once they have bitten once, there is a fairly high chance they will do it again. i agree bring him to your vet and get him/her fully checked out but also be straight with your vet tell him/her the reasons behind the check but be prepared to maybe hear something you dont want to!!!!!

peasant

once they have bitten once, there is a fairly high chance they will do it again.

Sorry Jules, but that is a very broad and sweeping statement.

I'd say it would be safe to assume that the OP's dog has gone through its life so far without having bitten or without having been overly aggressive ... otherwise the OP would have mentioned it.

Therefore the biting incident was most likely a once off and the reason for it needs to be investigated in order to prevent the same chain of circumstances that led to the bite from happening again.

Dogs are pack animals. All their social skills are honed to avoid conflict and injury (otherwise a pack would last all of five minutes). They do not bite without reason and only as a last resort.

The only exception to the rule are:
- dogs that have ben made aggressive by a cruel handler on purpose
- dogs that are physically sick.

Jules

dont think its a broad or sweeping statement as i said fairly high chance not definate chance and if you say it wont happen again i think that is extremely irresponsible of you

peasant

I'm not saying "it won't happen again" ...I'm saying "find out why it did happen and make sure that the same chain of events doesn't occur again"

The dog might be in pain and need medical help
The dog might need to have its behavior corrected
The owner/handler might need to have THEIR behaviour corrected

And as a last resort ...yes, maybe the dog might need to be put down ... but from the limited infromation that the OP provided, I would not think that this is the case.

I could be wrong though, but more info would be needed to assess that.

Jules

and i do believe thats what i said!!!!!

peasant

It's just that your statement might create the impression that once the "bite"-switch on a dog was flicked, it will bite over and over again.

That is simply not true ..there is no such thing as a dog "turning bad" from one moment to another ...that's a myth.

I thought that needed clarifying.

fathersymes

The exact situation when he attacked was; he was in the submissive position (on his back) and being stroked. He was with the vet a few weeks ago, so no physical problems.

It wasn't just a 'Snap' but a full on frenzied attack!

I reckon it is a dominance problem as in I'm pack leader and girlfriend is suboordinate as far as he's concerned.

We really don't want to lose him but also don't want a situation where he savages her face next time.

peasant

Hi fathersymes,

Some of the terminology that you use there doesn't quite sit right with me, could you please clarify the following:

"submissive postion" = on his back:

Was he on his back because he was presenting his belly for a stroking ... in other words was he showing his trust ?

or

Did you force him on his back or command him to lie on his back in order to show his "submission".

If the second answer is correct, then he should have by no means been stroked in that situation ...because he would have clearly seen this as an attack.

Also does he know your GF quite well or are they just newly aquainted? Stroking a dogs belly involves a fair amount of trust on the dogs side ..not every "stranger" is allowed to do it. He might have invited YOU to stroke his belly, but not necessarily included your GF in the "invitation".

Not necessarily a case of "dominance" .

Were there no warning signs at all? No wriggling? No trying to get away? No growling?

Our man in Havana

I agree with what Peasant says - you need to give more info - I have 10 dogs & none have EVER attacked when they are on their backs asking for a belly rub.

How long has the dog know your GF?? Is the dog at all nervous?? Are you 100% sure that the dog does not have a sore spot on his belly?? Also how old is the dog??

fathersymes

How long has the dog know your GF??
1.5 years since I got the dog, he was about 1 year when I got him.

Is the dog at all nervous??
No, pretty confident but sometimes retreats into a corner.

Are you 100% sure that the dog does not have a sore spot on his belly??

Yes, no sore spots.
[/QUOTE]

He voluntarily rolled over on his back but I think she may have moved him around. So that explains him assuming an attack on him.

EGAR

Yes, it would. It could also be that your dog has slight problems with his back/discs etc as I had a JR here once (a rescue who was handed in for biting) who bit when he was played with. Turned out he had back trouble and because of the *manhandling* the discs slipped and caused him pain. That's why he bit.

Our man in Havana

I would give the dog a second chance - & just be very careful to see how the dog & your gf interact. Does she want the dog to be destroyed??

I would also investigate the back just to be on the safe side.

doctor evil

If it ws a bad bite I wouldn`t. You may not be able to control the circumstanses if it happens (I typed if peasant, no need to get on your high horse). If it happens again it could be some one quite unprepared like a child or elderly person.

peasant

*mounts high horse*

If ...and I say if ...the dog had a slipped disk for example and that was the reason why he bit ...why have him put down?

- get him treated

- make sure that nobody (and that includes unsuspecting toddlers and little old grannies) touches him where it hurts.



Slightly skewed perspective there, methinks

*hobbles into the distance, rhythmically banging his coconut shells*

spurious

I'd be quite worried about a dog who, unprovoked (apparently) actually bit someone. Snapping or growling as a warning, yes, while not entirely acceptable are maybe a bit more understandable, but straight to actual biting I would find very worrying. I can understand why the vet recommended he be put to sleep.

Do you have children in the house? Please keep this dog away from them.

peasant

another option:

Assuming that there is nothing physically wrong with the dog, the attack must have had another reason.

Fathersymes, you said that he sometimes retreats into a corner. This would suggest to me that he is not perfectly happy / confident with what goes on around him.

Furthermore you mentioned a few "key words" like "submissive", "dominant", "pack leader" and "subordinate". These words usually come with with the somewhat harsher school of dog training, the school that believes that stamping your authority on the dog is the only way to train a dog.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not accusing you of anything ...but if ...for example ...you had a very strict and harsh regime at home, the dog then only knows one way to react, when things go too far ...strict and harsh with a bite.

It might be a good idea to invite a professional trainer around for a cuppa, to have alook at the way you and your dog interact and possibly come up with a few suggestions on how to improve trust and understanding on both sides and prevent such an incident from happening again.

fathersymes

Hello Peasant, These words I use 'dominant', 'submissive' etc. are used from my understanding of dog behaviour not a strict regime of training or bad treatment on my part. We both treat the dog as a beloved pet, there is no reason for him to be unhappy. We are giving him a second chance and will keep him away from children and obviously the tummy rubs are out.

Some dogs, especially jack russells attempt to assert their status in the pack more than others.

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid.

peasant

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid

.

My guess would be that during the biting incident he actually felt "mistreated" ...that's why he bit her in the first place.

There seems to be a massive misunderstanding between your GF and your dog somewhere.

Where exactly that misunderstsanding comes from is difficult to tell over the internet.

I would suggest the following:

First get him to the vet. Tell the vet about the incident and get the dog checked again for possible pain round the belly and back areas.

If there is nothing physically wrong, I really think it would be a good idea to get some independent advice on this situation. Some professional to observe you, your GF and the dog for a while.

There must be something going wrong in your communication with the dog that you're just not seeing. Happens to the best of us ...little mistakes creep in without anybody realising, until an outsider points them out.

Whereabouts are you?

In case you are in the northwest, please pm me for the contact details of a good "doggy trainer"

Lexie

One of our terriers used to nearly take the hand off us when we rubbed his belly. He would roll over for us to rub him and when we touched him he would bite.

Brought him to the vet and he said the dog had Hernia (sp?). All fixed now, and he doesnt snap anymore.

Maybe the OP should bring the dog to another Vet for a second opinion and checkup.

EGAR

fathersymes wrote:

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid.

That is a clear indication that something DID happen, however much unintented and unnoticed by you GF. He would not do that without a prior incident in which he felt threatened or hurt.

Enilorac

Only just caught up with this, and thanks to the person concerned for tipping me off about this thread. JRTs are my passion and my life.

You've had some very good advice from people here, so I can only reiterate. From what you've described, and given the history you've provided us with, I can only wonder if your girlfriend made a movement that either caught your little boy unawares, or caused him pain. A visit to the vet 'a few weeks' ago is irrelevant, a lot can happen to a little dog in a few weeks.

I'd like a few more questions answered if you can.

What had the dog been doing in the 10-20 minutes prior to this behaviour episode?

Does your girlfriend wear rings/bracelets or similar, long nails even, that could catch the hair (or worse) and cause pain without her knowing?

What time of day was it (this MAY be relevant honestly!)

What exercise had he had that day? was it different to the norm in any way?

What had you and girlfriend been doing in the 10-20 mins or so previously...keep your reply clean and family-friendly, but dogs can get very jealous/possesive when their 'person' gets close to another human.

What is dog fed on, and how often? Had his diet changed recently? Could he have eaten something that day that he shouldn't have?
Is he pooing normally and regularly?

Is there any history of fitting/seizures for this little dog. At 2½ years of age, he's pretty textbook for the onset of idiopathic epliepsy, and this can explain sudden irrational behaviour.
On the same theme, how was his behaviour within 10-15 minutes after the incident? What did he do, tell me even the mundane things that seem unimportant...panting, drinking, licking lips etc.

Do you know anything about the breeding of this dog? Do you know his breeder? If I remember correctly you didn't get him until he was one, is this correct. Was there any reason for this? Did you get him from a breeder or had he already had a home? Do you know his history at all from before you had him?

Has he been to a vet since, and if not, why not?

Tell your girlfriend to avoid direct eye contact for now...treat or no treat. Direct eye contact will be seen as a direct threat...and as EGAR has mentioned already, this is fairly indicative that something has happened between him and her, and that he sees her as a threat for whatever reason.. Ask her to ignore him completely, no eye contact, no attention, don't speak to him, don't pet him and no treats...

Treat the growling as a polite request to give him some space...its his 'polite' mechanism, the clearest way he can tell you that something or someone is in his space and he doesn't want it there.

Is he OK with other girls/women?

Lots of things could have caused this. You need a vet to rule out any medical conditions that might be causing pain. You need to think about changes in his environment/feeding/routine that might have disturbed him...and if nothing there gives you any pause for thought then you need to consult a decent, qualified dog behaviourist to help you. Having him put to sleep shouldn't even be considered as an option at this point, you're no where near exhausting all avenues of help.

peasant

fathersymes

Any news?

Did the vet find anything?

Raiser

Have two Terriers at home - if I or anyone else accidently caused them pain - for example accidently stepping on a paw etc. then they would be hurt, horrified and shrink into a corner submissively.

If they decided to take it upon themselves to retaliate with as described "a frenzied attack" I would have either beloved dog put down within 20 mins. How is this acceptable ???

There is something wrong in this scenario and in my opinion no "leader of the pack" - Fido thought it was "savage limbs day" every damn Tuesday mentality excuses this incident.

Furthermore what this animal could perhap be capable of doing to someone he has never seen before should be a cause for concern, discussion and extreme caution in my opinion.

tbh

Hi OP, I'm very sorry to have to tell you this, but my opinion is that the dog should be put down. I'm nearly crying writing that, by the way, I've been in the same position, twice, both times with JRT's, both times much loved family pets. The first was 16 years ago and I still think of her a lot. They told me she was going to a big farm...

the point is, it doens't matter why your dog attacked your girlfriend, even if there are a million good reasons why it did, the fact is that you now know there is a possibility that your dog will go into a frenzied attack without warning. I'm afraid you don't have the right (obviously IMO) to decide that it's worth chancing that the dog won't do it again, how could you live with yourself if (and I know it's been said before) the dog attacked a child? Never mind about the law, you would know yourself that the dog had done it before, and you had done nothing. You could try keeping the dog indoors, or in a muzzle, but, again IMO, this is unfair to the dog, who won't know why they are being punished.

I really feel for you, and wouldn't judge you whatever you do, but if it were me, I'd have to get the dog put down. sorry.

peasant

Whoa !

Slow down there ....

Raiser and tbh,

First off and in general, a dog is a dog, a domesticated predatory animal. Every dog has the capability to bite and every dog will bite eventuelly, if pushed hard enough.

Every dog owner has to realise this and it is their responsibility to socialise the dog, to train the dog and to protect it so that it will not find itself in a situation where it has no other choice but to bite.

If the dog bites, the owner has failed (it).

Be that the the dog was unsupervised, badly trained, overly aggressive or overly afraid, or left in pain ...ultimately the owner hasn't fulfilled his/her responsibility toward the dog.

So please don't advocate euthanising the dog for human failure.


As for the OP's case:

The dog "functioned" properly before and all of a sudden it bit.There had to be a reason for this. This has to be found and rectified ...not the dog put down.



And before the discussion starts drifting off into horrific examples of dogs doing injuries to little children ...

1) I will concede that there are dogs out there who are beyond rectifying and that need to be put down ...but they are only a tiny, tiny percentage

2) Much more importantly ...every dog that attckas somebody or something else in a really damaging manner WILL have shown signs beforehand that should have been noticed, investigated and corrected ...so down to the owner's responsibility again.

tbh

peasant wrote:

Whoa !

Slow down there ....

Raiser and tbh,

First off and in general, a dog is a dog, a domesticated predatory animal. Every dog has the capability to bite and every dog will bite eventuelly, if pushed hard enough.

Of course every dog has the potential to bite if pushed hard enough. Two points:

1. The op doesn't know what caused the dog to bite, and so can never be sure that the dog won't do it again.

2. It doesn't sound to me like the dog was fighting for it's life or whatever, so I don't know why you think the argument that "push it far enough and it will bite" is relevant.

Every dog owner has to realise this and it is their responsibility to socialise the dog, to train the dog and to protect it so that it will not find itself in a situation where it has no other choice but to bite.

If the dog bites, the owner has failed (it).

you are saying that the owner should have trained the dog not to bite while it is being patted?

Be that the the dog was unsupervised, badly trained, overly aggressive or overly afraid, or left in pain ...ultimately the owner hasn't fulfilled his/her responsibility toward the dog.

So please don't advocate euthanising the dog for human failure.

The op hasn't said that the dog was any of these things, it's a well-loved pet in what seems to be a stable environment, and it went mad with no warning.

Honest Question: Would you keep that dog in your house if you had kids? and if not, what about the neighbours kids? The whole point is that the OP knows the dog has attacked without warning before. Maybe rehoming the dog could be an option, but you simply cannot just pretend nothing happened, and run the risk that the dog will do it again.

As for the OP's case:

The dog "functioned" properly before and all of a sudden it bit.There had to be a reason for this. This has to be found and rectified ...not the dog put down.



And before the discussion starts drifting off into horrific examples of dogs doing injuries to little children ...

1) I will concede that there are dogs out there who are beyond rectifying and that need to be put down ...but they are only a tiny, tiny percentage

no matter how small the risk, it's not worth it. ESPECIALLY if you KNOW the dog has done it before.

2) Much more importantly ...every dog that attckas somebody or something else in a really damaging manner WILL have shown signs beforehand that should have been noticed, investigated and corrected ...so down to the owner's responsibility again.

ahh I don't agree with that at all, tbh, and I don't think it's at all helpful

peasant

tbh

You are refusing to see that a dog owner has the responsibility to

- ensure that everything is done (including medical checkup) that the dog will not come into a situation where it has no other choice but to bite

- if the dog does bite, to do everything possible to find out why and rectify the circumstances so that it doesn't happen again

Instead you advocate killing all dogs once they've bitten because they could do it again.

The logical consequence of that argument is that there should be no dogs at all ...after all they all have the potential to bite and (unless one takes responsibility for them) one will never know when they might just do it.

See now why taking responsibility is so important?

tbh

peasant wrote:

tbh

You are refusing to see that a dog owner has the responsibility to

- ensure that everything is done (including medical checkup) that the dog will not come into a situation where it has no other choice but to bite

- if the dog does bite, to do everything possible to find out why and rectify the circumstances so that it doesn't happen again

Ok, if the vet says "your dog has an abscess on it's tooth, which causes it pain, and your girlfriend patted it and caused it to react" then, ok, fair enough. but what if the vet examines the dog and says "I can't find any physical reason why the dog did what he did." What then?

Instead you advocate killing all dogs once they've bitten because they could do it again.

unfortunately, if the dog can't be rehomed, and I had no way of knowing what caused the dog to attack, then yes, I would advocate euthanizing the dog.

The logical consequence of that argument is that there should be no dogs at all ...after all they all have the potential to bite and (unless one takes responsibility for them) one will never know when they might just do it.

What?!? How is that the logical consequence? What I am saying is, once bitten, twice shy. I've had dogs - lots of dogs - all my life, and the only biters were JRT's - and not even all of my JRT's. I have a lab that would let you scoop her eyes out without biting you. However if YOU KNOW that a dog has attacked someone in the past, for no reason, then you physically cannot be sure that the dog will never do it again. I'm not saying that everyone should be locked up because we could all commit murder if pushed. Thats ridiculous

See now why taking responsibility is so important?

ahhh. So you *were* being patronising the first time around. I am a responsible dog owner. I feel that one of the responsibilities I have is towards the community as a whole - If I have a dog I know could go into a frenzied attack - remember this wasn't a nip - then I'm afraid my responsibility means I cannot expose the community to that risk. I think anyone who has ever been around dogs knows that they can freak out all of a sudden. They don't always bite, but saying you can always predict when they are going to attack - again, in the case where you ALREADY KNOW the dog has done it before - is naive in the extreme. It's a pity, because I hate to see a dog put down, but that's the reality as I see it.

I'm giving my opinion on a very specific example. The dog savagely attacked someone for no reason. I'm not saying every biter should be put down, but I am saying this dog should be, assuming they can't find a reason for the attack. Thats responsibility - making a sacrifice for the greater good.

Lexie

We didnt put our terrier to sleep because he bit someone. Found the problem and rectified it and he stoppped biting. Problem solved.

Totally agree with peasant!

Raiser

fathersymes *condensed* wrote:

My dog a Jack Russell went into a frenzy today, bit my girlfriend badly.....He attacked for no reason, simply being patted at the time.... but the danger is he will attack again.

fathersymes *condensed* wrote:

The exact situation when he attacked was; he was in the submissive position (on his back) and being stroked....It wasn't just a 'Snap' but a full on frenzied attack!.....don't want to lose him but also don't want a situation where he savages her face next time.

fathersymes *condensed* wrote:

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid.

Hmmmm sounds like all the friendly family dogs I've owned & encountered - I'm sure that this dog is perfectly safe with people/kids as long as they don't pat it, offer it treats or generally approach it in any way.

The fact of the matter is that if the OP follows all of the well-intentioned advice above with this troubled, spontaneously aggressive dog and compounds it with a 3 week stay at the top dog health spa in Switzerland under the care of the top 15 dog psychologists in the World...There is no guarantee that he won't chew some poor souls face of at some unexpected point in the future. FACT.

peasant

unfortunately, if the dog can't be rehomed, then yes, I would advocate euthanizing the dog.

Could you please make up your mind?

First you advocate killing all the dogs that have bitten once ...now you want to pawn them off to someone else ...

However if YOU KNOW that a dog has attacked someone in the past, for no reason, then you physically cannot be sure that the dog will never do it again

.

"no reason"

That is where youre whole argument falls together like a house of cards.

There alway IS a reason. A normally socialised, trained, bred, kept dog WILL NOT bite without reason.

Not realising what the reason was is no justification to kill the dog.
There always are warning signs ...a lot of people just don't see them.

I think anyone who has ever been around dogs knows that they can freak out all of a sudden.

What on earth are you doing to your dogs?

No dog that I have ever owned or been around has ever "freaked out"

peasant

Raiser wrote:

Hmmmm sounds like all the friendly family dogs I've owned & encountered - I'm sure that this dog is perfectly safe with people/kids as long as they don't pat it, offer it treats or generally approach it in any way.

The fact of the matter is that if the OP follows all of the well-intentioned advice above with this troubled, spontaneously aggressive dog and compounds it with a 3 week stay at the top dog health spa in Switzerland under the care of the top 15 dog psychologists in the World...There is no guarantee that he won't chew some poor souls face of at some unexpected point in the future. FACT.

NONSENSE

You're just being polemic ...

I'll just repeat myself:

There alway IS a reason. A normally socialised, trained, bred, kept dog WILL NOT bite without reason.

Not realising what the reason was is no justification to kill the dog.
There always are warning signs ...a lot of people just don't see them.

tbh

peasant wrote:

Could you please make up your mind?

First you advocate killing all the dogs that have bitten once ...now you want to pawn them off to someone else ...

If the dog really can go to a farm or somewhere where they won't be in contact with people, and especially kids, then great! how realistic is that for most people?

.

"no reason"

That is where youre whole argument falls together like a house of cards.

There alway IS a reason. A normally socialised, trained, bred, kept dog WILL NOT bite without reason.

Not realising what the reason was is no justification to kill the dog.
There always are warning signs ...a lot of people just don't see them.

I'm sure there is. Maybe the dog had a flashback to a trauma it suffered at the hands of a similar looking girl? Maybe it had a hormonal imbalance? the point is, if you don't know what the cause was - and please, please try to understand this - you cannot prevent it from happening again. And maybe the dog shook it's paw three times before it attacked. Are you saying the op should follow the dog around for the rest of it's life so that they can check? Seriously, lets say the dog took the face off a child. Where would all your arguments be then? If it were the first time the dog had attacked, then maybe you would say "thats life". but if the dog had attacked before - and this was your child - how mad would you be?


Some questions for you:
What are your theories for why this dog went mad, and how would you train the dog not to do it again (assuming it's nothing physical).

If you don't know, how would you suggest the OP go about finding out?

And if the OP cannot say "this is 100% the reason why the dog did what it did", what do you suggest the OP do?

tbh

peasant wrote:

Not realising what the reason was is no justification to kill the dog.
There always are warning signs ...a lot of people just don't see them.

then what do you think the owner should do?

By the way, you are quoting a lot of stuff about dogs behave as fact, do you mind me asking what your background is? Are you a vet, or are you just talking from your personal experience? Just to establish context.

A normally socialised, trained, bred, kept dog WILL NOT bite without reason.

so, if the dog is all of the above, they may still bite, you just have to hope the reason is obvious so you can prevent it in future.

Also, can you let me know how to spot the difference between A normally socialised, trained, bred, kept dog and any other type of dog? Is it the Collar?

peasant

tbh wrote:

.
Some questions for you:
What are your theories for why this dog went mad, and how would you train the dog not to do it again (assuming it's nothing physical).

If you don't know, how would you suggest the OP go about finding out?

And if the OP cannot say "this is 100% the reason why the dog did what it did", what do you suggest the OP do?

I will not speculate on the OP's situation. I wasn't there, I don't know him, his girlfriend or their circumstances ...and I don't know their dog either.

My suggestions for th OP were a) vet b) independent advisor to assess the situation (trainer)



In general I would say though:

- people who are unwilling to take up the aforementioned responsibility for their dogs
- people who do not understand their dogs
- people who fail to realise when there is something wrong or out of the ordinary with their dogs
- people who refuse to understand that a dog isn't a on/off appliance but a sensient being with feelings and instincts
- people who fail to protect their dogs

...those people shouldn't have dogs ...because they'll only end up putting them down

Wokie

I'm totally with Peasant on this one! I have been the lucky recipient of a dog who has bitten a child. The previous owner was either (a) going to give dog back to breeder:eek: (b) get it put down:eek: :eek: Anyway she talked to me and I agreed to take the dog on, on a trial basis to see how she got on. That was over a year ago and she is such a lovely pet. HOWEVER, she's a lovely pet with us...and absolutely cannot be allowed off lead or to have anybody else pet her. This means it is entirely our reponsibility to keep her safe along with any else who might come into her space. There is always a sign when she is getting stressed due to someone coming too close to her. The thing is, it is again up to us to read these signs and to get her out of the stressful situation. I'm learning how to read the signals and how to keep her as relaxed and happy as possible and (blowing my own trumpet now:D ) but we've got a lovely partnership where she's safe and happy and I've got a beautiful pet. At the end of the day....as Peasant says, there is always a reason and a dog will always give a warning....WE need to know what these warnings are and how to read them and even more imporantly in protecting the children.....who on earth in this day and age would leave their dog unsupervised in the presence of kids

Raiser

Wokie wrote:

HOWEVER, she's a lovely pet with us...and absolutely cannot be allowed off lead or to have anybody else pet her. This means it is entirely our reponsibility to keep her safe along with any else who might come into her space. There is always a sign when she is getting stressed due to someone coming too close to her.

* You can keep a wheelie bin full of rattlesnakes in a Creche if you're careful enough - I think you are 100 miles from reasons/spirit of the OPs intial question.

* What if you sneeze on the street and drop the lead and Spot maims a 6 month old who failed to recognise this lovely pets warning signs :rolleyes:

* A dog with a f*cked up dispostition can be as dangerous as one that has been pushed into being aggressive by knackers or whatever else.

Finally at what point do you people stop excusing unacceptable [to the sane] behaviour and perhaps make a judgement that the animal is just plain dangerous ???

Won't be shocked when someone posts about the adorable Terrier at home that is perfectly safe and a lovely pet and only liable to attack if you happen to wear blue clothing, part your hair or carry coins in your pockets :rolleyes:

Finally @ Peasant I would certainly question the basis/foundations/sources of your assertions - all dogs are not inherently safe and stable - some [like people] can just be plain nasty.

peasant

Finally @ Peasant I would certainly question the basis/foundations/sources of your assertions - all dogs are not inherently safe and stable - some [like people] can just be plain nasty.

Simple ...dogs have been bred for thousands of generations by people for people. Add the fact that dogs inherently have absolutely amazing social skills and want nothing else more than to be integrated into a group ...be that a group of dogs or people. And the fact that as pack animals by design their social skills are honed towards conflict avoidance.

The end result is an animal that is safe and stable with and around people ...as long as people know the limits and stick to them.

Dogs that are not safe and stable were made that way or are mentally ill.

Wokie

Raiser wrote:

* You can keep a wheelie bin full of rattlesnakes in a Creche if you're careful enough - I think you are 100 miles from reasons/spirit of the OPs intial question..

I totally accept that I didn't directly help OP's initial question. Just trying to illustrate the point that one I agree with Peasant and why I do, and that a dog does not NEED to be put down just because it has bitten...that there are options.

From OP - Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid.

OP - the dog not maintaining eye contact is its way of trying to calm himself down and get away from what he perceives as being a stressful situation. Was your GF staring at him - trying to maintain full on eye contact?

Raiser wrote:

* What if you sneeze on the street and drop the lead and Spot maims a 6 month old who failed to recognise this lovely pets warning signs :rolleyes: .

Oh please.....

Raiser wrote:

*A dog with a f*cked up dispostition can be as dangerous as one that has been pushed into being aggressive by knackers or whatever else..

I agree.....but it can be managed with knowledge and care it doesn't have to be an automatic response of putting a dog to sleep. As it happens, I think my dog may have been born with a negative disposition possibly with a bit of a mental problem? Certainly not going to put her to sleep.

Raiser wrote:

Finally at what point do you people stop excusing unacceptable [to the sane] behaviour and perhaps make a judgement that the animal is just plain dangerous ??? .

'you people' What's this meant to mean? :rolleyes: