continental europe > ireland

Sam Vimes

ive been going across europe for the last two weeks and this is why its better than ireland:

1. the urinals have a sensor that make it flush as soon as you walk away

1a. the pedestrian crossings have sensors too. they know when there's a person standing there and change to green

2. traffic lights all go to flashing orange after 11 o clock so there's no waiting at a red light for ages while there's no cars or 6 miles

3. you don't have to run for the subway because there'll be another one in 6 minutes

4. there's a subway

5. it has stops every few hundred yards. we once got it the length of a street rather than walk

6. there are people on the train station platforms whose only job is to go up to people who look lost and ask if they need help

7. everything's 100000% cheaper

8. in munich in the hofbrauhaus the beer comes in litres and while it is expensive for germany (6.20 for basically 2 pints), it makes you realise that the beer they serve in ireland is generally piss

9. even the poorer areas have a fully operational tram system, and their one joins in the middle!!!

10. everything is done with a level of efficiency that's unfathomable in ireland. we shouldn't be ni a state where we EXPECT the govt to fcuk everything up

11. the police have guns and therefore some form of authority and the world didn't collapse when they were given them

12. the security around the world cup was amazing. the equivalent of the entire irish police force were on the streets and stopped any trouble before it started. there were no muck savages on power trips trying to be smart. they just got the job done.

13. everyone is incredibly helpful. three of us were looking for a particular place and the woman said that her car was around the corner and she'd give us a lift!!1!!

14. the tab system in bars. its so much simpler and it results the scabby bastard losing out rather than never having to buy a round.

15. the bars don't shut at 12:30 on the dot and the country still manages to chug along far better than ireland.

16. at every train station there's at least 30 taxis waiting. and you generally don't have to get taxis because you're never more than 100 yards from a subway stop.

17. did i mention i like the subway?

i'll add more as i think of them

cournioni

I totally agree.

Dragan

Just as a serious question, would you consider relocating after seeing what other countries have to offer?

jester77

And thats exactly why I live here

Same salary but goes a long long long way further, plus the Summer actually has sun for 4-5 months and a decent health system...well actually an amazing health system!!

Oh... and the autobahn rules

Plus I can go to take the trinksmarkt and buy 20 bottles of quality beer for €12 and get money back for bringing back the empties!

galah

OP - nice post, and Germany is GREAT for a holiday - but you would not want to live there - the bureaucracy would drive anyone mad! It's great to have a competent and strong police force - until you get your first fine for jay-walking, or riding a bicycle that does not have the correct lights on, and the list goes on...

To foreigners, Irish people are still very helpful as well, I mostly found an awful lot of grumpy people in Germany, who couldn't care less if you were lost or not. People in Germany generally don't apologize if thy bump into you, or if they're in the way or anything - somehting I find quite nice in Ireland!

Taxes are a lot higher as well, so in comparison, it's not all that cheap if you actually live in Germany.

The German government, although efficient, stuffs up an awful lot as well. It just means that the fcuk ups are done more efficiently...

The public traffic system is great in larger cities - try any smaller town, and it's the same cr*p as in any Irish town.

Admittedly, the health care system in Germany is fantastic (had to go to casualty one day, and after half an hour's wait, a nurse came over to apologize that we had to wait "so long" - I couldn't believe it!), but comes at a price, and driver's are way better educated - it's actually still fun to drive in Germany, cause people in cars know what they're doing, and for a journey of 200 km, you can calculate about 1.5 hours - not 4 like in Ireland...

But apart from that...

stevejazzx

galah wrote:

Taxes are a lot higher as well, so in comparison, it's not all that cheap if you actually live in Germany.

is this correct?
income tax lower in geramny is 15%
vat is 16%

r3nu4l

I agree with a lot of what you say but these countries have serious problems too.

Take the Metro in Paris for example, Pickpocketing is rife despite Armed police officers with attack dogs on some platforms!

Naples is also full of pickpockets at the central train station and taxi drivers there are often as bad as some of those in Dublin for ripping off their customers!

The smell of p1ss from the streets of central Rome at 6 am on a warm July morning is incredible

The Champs Elysses in Paris is wonderful especially if you sit outside for a Beer at night, only costs €11 (as of July 2005) if you are silly enough to stay and pay that!

Brussels gets as much if not more rain that Ireland and I would rather the Gardaí any day over their police force. They have had serial murders, massive paedophile scandals dwarfing our own and corruption that makes the Gardaís troubles look like a minor event.

Italy and political corruption go hand in hand to a greater extent that Ireland (CJH would have been a legend in Italy )

Those are just some of the problems...

Having said all of that, continental Europe is a wonderful place, I love it and we could learn a lot but let's not start saying that they have everything right and we have everything wrong!

And loathe as I am to admit this ...*choking* Britain has had special constables (volunteer reserves) for a few years now and it works well for them so *struggling to say this* we could do with taking a leaf out of their book. :eek:

So I say to you OP...

What's the matter you eh?
Gotta no respect...
...Itsa not so bad,
Itsa nica place
Ah shuddupa your face

Emmo

yeah but for the pig ignorant like me who dont speak German and whos French is passable could you work and live over there?

Emmo

Dyr

Commander Vimes wrote:

ive been going across europe for the last two weeks and this is why its better than ireland:



1a. the pedestrian crossings have sensors too. they know when there's a person standing there and change to green


11. the police have guns and therefore some form of authority and the world didn't collapse when they were given them

or eastern european version, the zebra crossing's have traffic lights on them (wtf why?) and the drivers still ignore both

the police have guns and their uniform (scruffy white polo shirts like a centra worker and overall bottoms) and general demeanour make them look binmen with an attitude. Really instills confidence

But yes indeed trams, public transport, crazy stuff that Ireland will never need, we can just zip everywhere in our ministerial mercs, those speed cops doing escort make sure we're never late. And if we're really late sure isnt that what govt jets are for? :mad:

RE*AC*TOR

A quick synopsis of the original post:

grumble grumble grumble public transport grumble grumble

As for beer in Ireland, there a plenty of good beers widely available in Ireland now, its no longer the situation of Carlsberg/Heineken/Budweiser/Miller/Smithwicks/Guinness. Speaking of which, Guinness is great. Its much more appropriate to our out in the middle of an ocean climate than a nice crisp pilsner.

galah

stevejazzx wrote:

is this correct?
income tax lower in geramny is 15%
vat is 16%

VAT will be raised to (I think) 19 % soon. And don't forget all the "funny" taxes, like church tax, rainwater tax (yes, it does exist! Houseowners pay a tax on the rainwater that falls on their property), property taxes, water taxes, council taxes, solidarity taxes, eco tax on fuel, etc etc...

r3nu4l

galah wrote:

VAT will be raised to (I think) 19 % soon. And don't forget all the "funny" taxes, like church tax, rainwater tax (yes, it does exist! Houseowners pay a tax on the rainwater that falls on their property), property taxes, water taxes, council taxes, solidarity taxes, eco tax on fuel, etc etc...

Yep income tax is not the thing to take into account at all. I know UK is not Continental Europe but I was chuffed to see that income tax was lower in the UK than in Ireland and was sure the cost of living would be cheaper in Cambridge than in Dublin yet I didn't take council tax or the other myriad of little charges into account and I am now earning more but saving far less than I was able to in Ireland AND I'm not even running a car over here! If I don't get the increase I want in January I may just return home!

mikedragon32

It's great going to German and using the public transport. You'd wonder why anyone would bother with a car then the busses and trains are so very efficient.

Then you head out on the Autobahn and you see why. Fantastic roads, even if they're not all free of speed limits anymore. Everyone knows how to use the autobahn properly, as far as I could tell, and even in Winter with snow falling drivers don't suddenly panic and slow down to 60kph like on Irish roads!

I love that you can go for a few beers and a bite to eat and still have change of from €20.

I love that even though my German is crap, bartenders, waiters, shop assistants etc. will humor me in my feeble attempts to buy something!

Anyway enough Gemany loving. Back to continent loving...

Isn't it great that you can get on a train in Paris after breakfast and be in Brussels for lunch? That you can drive across borders within the EU without need to stop and present passports, with the exception of occasional spot checks by customs?

Isn't it great that you can buy a can of beer in a supermarket for about the same price as a can of Coke? That when you go into a supermarket you can actually SMELL the food you're buying. That, if you want to, you can go to seperate shops for your bread, meat, cheese, poultry etc., without having to go to a shopping centre?

Why am I still here?

Ponster

r3nu4l wrote:

Take the Metro in Paris for example, Pickpocketing is rife despite Armed police officers with attack dogs on some platforms!

50 people pickpocketed on average per day out of 4,000,000 isn't that bad really.

The Champs Elysses in Paris is wonderful especially if you sit outside for a Beer at night, only costs €11 (as of July 2005) if you are silly enough to stay and pay that!

Indeed. If your that silly then you deserve it. You don't see any of the locals doing it

AnitaMcCluskey

I am currently living in Germany / France and I don't think they compare to our Green Homeland. Sure our transport system is below par but when we do try to improve it (LUAS) all people care about is the disruption to O'Connell Street. You can't win!

mikedragon32

r3nu4l wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you say but these countries have serious problems too.

Take the Metro in Paris for example, Pickpocketing is rife despite Armed police officers with attack dogs on some platforms!

Naples is also full of pickpockets at the central train station and taxi drivers there are often as bad as some of those in Dublin for ripping off their customers!

The smell of p1ss from the streets of central Rome at 6 am on a warm July morning is incredible

The Champs Elysses in Paris is wonderful especially if you sit outside for a Beer at night, only costs €11 (as of July 2005) if you are silly enough to stay and pay that!

Brussels gets as much if not more rain that Ireland and I would rather the Gardaí any day over their police force. They have had serial murders, massive paedophile scandals dwarfing our own and corruption that makes the Gardaís troubles look like a minor event.

Italy and political corruption go hand in hand to a greater extent that Ireland (CJH would have been a legend in Italy )

Those are just some of the problems...

Having said all of that, continental Europe is a wonderful place, I love it and we could learn a lot but let's not start saying that they have everything right and we have everything wrong!

And loathe as I am to admit this ...*choking* Britain has had special constables (volunteer reserves) for a few years now and it works well for them so *struggling to say this* we could do with taking a leaf out of their book. :eek:

So I say to you OP...

What's the matter you eh?
Gotta no respect...
...Itsa not so bad,
Itsa nica place
Ah shuddupa your face

Is it a coincidence that all the places you list are major Tourist destinations? I agree with your point though re pickpockets. While it's unpleasant, one only needs to take minor precautions to deter them. If it's even just slightly difficult for them to pick your pocket, they'll move on to someone else.

toomevara

to be honest I don't know why anyone bothers to live here...and why oh why is half the population of Europe queuing up to get in here and work, I mean its unfathomable.....oh wait...must be something to do with the rocketing economy, our totally open labour market, free and relatively uncorrupt political system and refreshing absence of bureacracy and state control (dont believe me... just try and open a business in France, or for that matter fire an incompetent employee, its about as easy as finding a pauper in the fianna fail tent at the Galway races) not to mention the vast personal wealth its possible to accumulate with a little hard work.

Oh and then there's the live and let live attitude of the vast majority of the people who live in this beknighted place...no society in western europe has ever undergone the type of demographic and cultural change Ireland has undergone in the past 10 years..we are a giant experiment my friends and guess what? We're doing really, really well. Now I know thats not what you want to hear but just 20 years ago this was to all intents and purposes a quasi-third world backwater with f**k all to offer except the ferry/plane out.

yeah yeah sure we've got problems, crap health sytem, feral skangers , huge growth in wealth disparity...but France..ha! economically stagnant and a racial timebomb (dont want to share their fabulous republican ideals with those dusky foreigners you see and if your under 25 a 1 in 4 chance of being unemployed, yep, i in 4, insane!!!!! Germany also stagnant and ageing with no social mobility. Italy...hopelessly corrupt and run by cartoon characters. appalling...
Yeah sure, the trains run on time but frankly so f**kin what....

All of old europe is failing, sure they may have nice transport services, but there is zero dynamism and only pessimism about the future....

....so yeah continental europe...its Great!!! Will the last one out of Ireland please turn out the lights....

AnitaMcCluskey

toomevara wrote:

to be honest I don't know why anyone bothers to live here...and why oh why is half the population of Europe queuing up to get in here and work, I mean its unfathomable.....oh wait...must be something to do with the rocketing economy, our totally open labour market, free and relatively uncorrupt political system and refreshing absence of bureacracy and state control (dont believe me... just try and open a business in France, or for that matter fire an incompetent employee, its about as easy as finding a pauper in the fianna fail tent at the Galway races) not to mention the vast personal wealth its possible to accumulate with a little hard work.

Oh and then there's the live and let live attitude of the vast majority of the people who live in this beknighted place...no society in western europe has ever undergone the type of demographic and cultural change Ireland has undergone in the past 10 years..we are a giant experiment my friends and guess what? We're doing really, really well. Now I know thats not what you want to hear but just 20 years ago this was to all intents and purposes a quasi-third world backwater with f**k all to offer except the ferry/plane out.

yeah yeah sure we've got problems, crap health sytem, feral skangers , huge growth in wealth disparity...but France..ha! economically stagnant and a racial timebomb (dont want to share their fabulous republican ideals with those dusky foreigners you see and if your under 25 a 1 in 4 chance of being unemployed, yep, i in 4, insane!!!!! Germany also stagnant and ageing with no social mobility. Italy...hopelessly corrupt and run by cartoon characters. appalling...
Yeah sure, the trains run on time but frankly so f**kin what....

All of old europe is failing, sure they may have nice transport services, but there is zero dynamism and only pessimism about the future....

....so yeah continental europe...its Great!!! Will the last one out of Ireland please turn out the lights....

Well said.

I applaud you

jester77

No matter where you live it's all about what you make of it. I lived in Galway before moving to Germany and loved it there. Now I am in Germany and I'm even happier. Yes there is alot of bureaucy but you get over that. There are lots of taxes but your salary is much larger and you end up taking home the same pay so it balances out. Plus everything is cheaper in shops but this will change from next year once VAT is raised to 19%
The one thing I don't like about Ireland now is the drinking culture, it was fun while I was in my early 20's but after so many years of getting hammered you just say enough is enough. I find it difficult to go out and have a normal night in Ireland, so much pressure to get hammered and if you don't everyone around you is and it's not much fun. It's so much more relaxed here on the continent and a much more pleasant atmosphere. I guess it's each to their own, or perhaps I'm just getting old and boring

toomevara

jester77 wrote:

I find it difficult to go out and have a normal night in Ireland, so much pressure to get hammered and if you don't everyone around you is and it's not much fun. It's so much more relaxed here on the continent and a much more pleasant atmosphere. I guess it's each to their own, or perhaps I'm just getting old and boring

I can definitely sympathise with that...irish binge drinking culture is insane, but then so is the UK's, much of scandinavia's and large chunks of Eastern Europe's. And from my travels in Germany well, lets just say there are some pretty big drinkers there too!!!! As a non drinking Irishman, yes we do exist...I dont allow other peoples perceptions or opinions of what constitues a good night out, i.e drinking oneself into a stupor and vomiting down a drain to affect me. I have an excellent social life, alcohol free....it can be done...its up to you to resist the peer pressure if you dont feel comfortable with it....

r3nu4l

Ponster wrote:

50 people pickpocketed on average per day out of 4,000,000 isn't that bad really.

1. Link?
2. Is that people caught, prosecuted successfully, incidents reported?
3. Remember that only a tiny fraction of successful pickpocket events are reported and many feel that they have simply lost their wallets, or whatever.
4. ...Lies, damn lies and statistics!

I witnessed four pickpockets in action in about thirty minutes spent on the RER platforms in Paris in a single day, as I'm safety concious I have never been pickpocketed.

So if I generate my own statistics, I could witness as many as 8 pickpocket events in one hour, or 96 in 12 hours, let's be generously conservative and say 150 in 24 hours. That's only what I witnessed, multiply that by other witnessed attempts plus the countless that go unnoticed and you have thousands per day. But as I said...lies, damn lies...etc. Remember 99% of convicted murderers have eaten bread, therefore bread must be a dangerous source of evil. :eek:

I'm simply pointing out that continental Europe has it's problems too and is not the perfect heaven-on-earth that people here seem to think it is. I agree Continental Europe is great, just not perfect.

They have as many problems and more (insome cases) than Ireland.

humanji

toomevara wrote:

I can definitely sympathise with that...irish binge drinking culture is insane, but then so is the UK's, much of scandinavia's and large chunks of Eastern Europe's. And from my travels in Germany well, lets just say there are some pretty big drinkers there too!!!! As a non drinking Irishman, yes we do exist...I dont allow other peoples perceptions or opinions of what constitues a good night out, i.e drinking oneself into a stupor and vomiting down a drain to affect me. I have an excellent social life, alcohol free....it can be done...its up to you to resist the peer pressure if you dont feel comfortable with it....

Yeah, but if you drink and then one night decided not to drink and everyone else is drunk it can get pretty annoying. A whole new language barrier comes into effect: those who speak english and those who gibber drunkenly.

But why is everyone comparing the two? Wouldn't it be better to take the best of the continent and try to apply them here? I mean, is anyone else sick of waiting half an hour for a dart only for an announcement to come on and say that it's been cancelled? If we had some of the efficency of the continent in that kind of regard, then Ireland would kick a hell of a lot more ass than it currently does! It's a nice country and it'll be great when it's finished

Joliegood

How come the former Eastern Bloc countries have outrageous taxi fares ?. Even higher than Dublin. Has put me off ever going back there.

1huge1

galah wrote:

OP - nice post, and Germany is GREAT for a holiday - but you would not want to live there - the bureaucracy would drive anyone mad! It's great to have a competent and strong police force - until you get your first fine for jay-walking, or riding a bicycle that does not have the correct lights on, and the list goes on...

To foreigners, Irish people are still very helpful as well, I mostly found an awful lot of grumpy people in Germany, who couldn't care less if you were lost or not. People in Germany generally don't apologize if thy bump into you, or if they're in the way or anything - somehting I find quite nice in Ireland!

Taxes are a lot higher as well, so in comparison, it's not all that cheap if you actually live in Germany.

The German government, although efficient, stuffs up an awful lot as well. It just means that the fcuk ups are done more efficiently...

The public traffic system is great in larger cities - try any smaller town, and it's the same cr*p as in any Irish town.

Admittedly, the health care system in Germany is fantastic (had to go to casualty one day, and after half an hour's wait, a nurse came over to apologize that we had to wait "so long" - I couldn't believe it!), but comes at a price, and driver's are way better educated - it's actually still fun to drive in Germany, cause people in cars know what they're doing, and for a journey of 200 km, you can calculate about 1.5 hours - not 4 like in Ireland...

But apart from that...

I agree with you that Germany has so many strict laws
but what I disagree with you is the transport system in smaller towns is like irish small towns, from my experience even the small towns have a brilliant road system and your never far from a motorway and theres always a train station close by, much more than you can say for a small irish town

toomevara

#Elites wrote:

Yes, when i finish School (19) Im of.

Cool.... and see as much of the world as you can, but believe you me, I've lived and worked in England, Italy, Portugal and Spain and I can tell you they've got as many problems and drawbacks as we have, only subtly different ones....Utopia does not exist, well not on this earth anyway, Ireland no better or worse than any of 'em.

toomevara

jomanji wrote:

I mean, is anyone else sick of waiting half an hour for a dart only for an announcement to come on and say that it's been cancelled? If we had some of the efficency of the continent in that kind of regard, then Ireland would kick a hell of a lot more ass than it currently does! It's a nice country and it'll be great when it's finished

Try the tube in london for 4 years if you want inefficiency and lack of customer care...you aint lived till you've spent 2 hours stuck in a northern line train in 33 degree heat, with absolutely no idea whats going on, and women and kids passing out all round you...Ireland will be great when its finished, so will everwhere else...perfection is not possible in this world...but we ain't doing too bad.

Ruu_Old

Have to agree with the transport in Germany is fantastic. I went around a couple of cities and used the trams in each city, cheap and fast.

Terry

Commander Vimes wrote:

1. the urinals have a sensor that make it flush as soon as you walk away

beavis and butthead were equally as impressed. uh huh huh.

Ponster

r3nu4l wrote:

1. Link?
2. Is that people caught, prosecuted successfully, incidents reported?
3. Remember that only a tiny fraction of successful pickpocket events are reported and many feel that they have simply lost their wallets, or whatever.
4. ...Lies, damn lies and statistics!

I witnessed four pickpockets in action in about thirty minutes spent on the RER platforms in Paris in a single day, as I'm safety concious I have never been pickpocketed.

It's incidents reported. I'll dig them up as we already had this discussion regarding the worst city in Europe for pickpockets. Rome I think had something like 180 per day being reported.

I've been living in Paris for 10 years now and have met 2 people living here that have been pickpocketed yet know of over 30 people who were visiting who were targeted.

humanji

toomevara wrote:

Try the tube in london for 4 years if you want inefficiency and lack of customer care...you aint lived till you've spent 2 hours stuck in a northern line train in 33 degree heat, with absolutely no idea whats going on, and women and kids passing out all round you...Ireland will be great when its finished, so will everwhere else...perfection is not possible in this world...but we ain't doing too bad.

Well that's no reason not to try. And yeah, the tube is pretty bad, but I don't think it really qualifies as transport

Feenikusu

I think I live in the wrong part of Germany.
The transport system here is terrible, if you miss a bus you have to wait a whole hour for the next one. And we don't have a subway. But my town is not that small, with 27.000 people. At least we have a train station, but the connections there are boring. You can only arrive 2 small citys from here and for the next train you have to wait half an hour.
In Cologne this is much better, or even in Bonn. But not everybody lives in big cities.