A couple of NL$200 hands

Lafortezza

I've switched from PLO to hold'em in recent times and since I've never really played hold'em cash online (and only a little live) I'm still not great.

Hero's image is probably quite tight and more than averagely aggressive, especially if I raise preflop. I am way tighter than the table average, table isn't that good.

HAND 1

Party $1/$2 No Limit
Seat 1: AAtime ( $486.55)
Seat 2: mimatadero ( $190.56)
Seat 3: jaforsorenda ( $211.45)
Seat 4: shv99 ( $103)
Seat 5: Joroy90 ( $200)
Seat 6: TivoMagic ( $252.60)
Seat 7: mmappi ( $181.56)
Seat 8: justinlarmon ( $297.84)
Seat 9: Hero ( $221.85)
Seat 10: Sterken5461 ( $185.85)
shv99 posts small blind (1)
Joroy90 posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 8h, 9h ]

3 folds
Hero raises (7) to 7
Sterken5461 calls (7)
5 folds.

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6c, 7d, 8d ] Pot = 17
Hero bets (16)
Sterken5461 raises (32) to 32
Hero calls (16)

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ] Pot = 81
Hero bets (50)
Villains thinks and thinks, using most of his timer
Sterken5461 raises (146.85) to 146.85
Sterken5461 is all-In.
Hero???
I was trying to think what hand(s) Villain put me on. Villain is reasonably loose.



HAND 2
No info on Villain at all. Has done nothing of note at the table and I've no numbers on him.

Party $1/$2 No Limit
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: AAtime ( $508.95)
Seat 2: mimatadero ( $184.76)
Seat 3: jaforsorenda ( $309.32)
Seat 4: shv99 ( $110.10)
Seat 5: Joroy90 ( $214.85)
Seat 6: TivoMagic ( $233.60)
Seat 7: mmappi ( $203.70)
Seat 8: justinlarmon ( $272.84)
Seat 9: Hero ( $401.70)
Seat 10: ladyjulia ( $94)
AAtime posts small blind (1)
mimatadero posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jd, Jc ]
6 folds
Hero raises (8) to 8
2 folds
mimatadero calls (6)

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7s, Jh, Ad ] Pot = 17
mimatadero checks.
Hero bets (11)
mimatadero calls (11)

** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qs ] Pot = 39
mimatadero checks.
Hero bets (37)
mimatadero calls (37)

** Dealing River ** : [ Td ] Pot = 113
mimatadero checks.
Hero ???

I've tended to check behind a huge % of the time previously, I'm starting to think that a value bet is better, folding to a reraise.

MrPillowTalk

On hand 1 I am folding to most average players.

On hand 2 I value bet that spot all the time as most players having gotten there with the K will try get a crying call out of you with a small bet.

willis

Hand 1: Fold as played, tough spot with that poxy min raise on flop, on turn Im not sure if leading is the best line...would u have lead on the turn if you had made a A/K high flush? If yes then the lead is correct imo

Hand 2: Hmmm, yes i like the value bet the more I think about. But im a pussy and check behind mostly! BTW im cash newbie so both could be way off!

BTW Laf, what is the standard on Party like at this level? Why do you play on Party instead of other sites where you can get rakeback? Do the bonuses make up for no rakeback? Just trying to get comparisons with Party/Tribeca/Prima

Lafortezza

willis wrote:

Hand 1: Fold as played, tough spot with that poxy min raise on flop, on turn Im not sure if leading is the best line...would u have lead on the turn if you had made a A/K high flush? If yes then the lead is correct imo

This min raise is nearly always a one pair hand I find. Villain either had top pair plus a draw (gutshot/flush/oesd like mine), or has TT-AA. It's a kind of 'I think I'm ahead and if I am I don't want to scare you off' bet. Since I (Hero) raised preflop this flop is unlikely to have hit me hard, typical raising standards would be 88+ or AJs+ at these tables.

Hand 2: Hmmm, yes i like the value bet the more I think about. But im a pussy and check behind mostly! BTW im cash newbie so both could be way off!

I'm a hold'em cash newbie up until about a month ago. So there's probably alot I'm doing wrong. I think this should be a value bet on the end, since hands with a K in them are kind of unlikely for Villain given the flop and how I bet flop and turn. AK maybe, KJ unlikely since I've got two Jacks and KQ doesn't call for a runner gutshot. KK is unlikely to call flop and turn with the A on the flop.

BTW Laf, what is the standard on Party like at this level? Why do you play on Party instead of other sites where you can get rakeback? Do the bonuses make up for no rakeback? Just trying to get comparisons with Party/Tribeca/Prima

I've always liked party. The fishpond is bigger, the software is very customisable, pretty secure and they always had plenty of PLO games compared to other sites where they might be scarce.

Lately I think that the best sites are those that don't allow PokerTracker or allow you to multitable more then 3 or 4 tables. I play about 6 full ring tables, and there's often the same players at each. These multitablers are more likely to use PT and be semi-decent at the game. Somewhere like Bodog that doesn't allow PT will have far softer tables but the software is pretty crap and things like cashout speed and cust service is worse.

Gholimoli

Hand 1:
Bet a bit less than the pot .you have nice drawing hand and these hands usually prefer money going in on later streets like turn and river.
When you bet the pot here we will fold anything he doesn’t like such as over cards and will raise to prise you out of drawing with anything he likes such as big pairs etc.
Also your out of position as well which really sucks so betting less will keep the pot under control.
On the turn you have made your hand but you could also be drawing dead.
Your hand deffo has some show down value but your hand prefers to get there as cheap as possible so I don’t think leading is a good idea.
Check/call the turn and check/call the river as long as the 4th diamond does not hit.
This way you have given him the chance to bluff away the most with all over pair hands and you saved your self lots if he has the flush.

hand2:
i dont like a value bet here at all unless you know villain to be a muppet and call a bet on that board with one pair/two pair etc.
now thats not very likely so i dont see how you can get any value from your bet.

MrPillowTalk

Gholimoli wrote:

Hand 1:

hand2:
i dont like a value bet here at all unless you know villain to be a muppet and call a bet on that board with one pair/two pair etc.
now thats not very likely so i dont see how you can get any value from your bet.

Think your way off here Gholi this is a very profitable bet for me and I will often get called by one or two pair, your underestimating peoples ability to convince themselves their hand is good, its also exactly the kind of board where we can expect villain to have one or two pair.

The value from the bet also comes in that when you do have a made straight and bet it you will also get paid as they see you bet less than the nuts on the end. Checking behind is class A weak tighty.

Gholimoli

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Think your way off here Gholi this is a very profitable bet for me and I will often get called by one or two pair, your underestimating peoples ability to convince themselves their hand is good, its also exactly the kind of board where we can expect villain to have one or two pair.

The value from the bet also comes in that when you do have a made straight and bet it you will also get paid as they see you bet less than the nuts on the end. Checking behind is class A weak tighty.

Eoin i really dont see him paying you off with anything at all.
look how passiv he has played the hand.

hero raises pre flop.
villain call.
then checks on A J 7 board and call a bet from hero .two broadway cards are deffo (more than anything with is his range now).unless he has called with 77 in wich case you would expect to see a c/r here more often that not.also there is not flush draws

then he check/calls another bet on the turn.what do we put him on?
broadway cards are the most likely holding for him and seen as there is only on J left its safe to say he does not have a J.
also if he made two pair or a set at any time you would expect an indication of that with a reise at some stage during the hand.
TT is possible but i dont see him paying you off on that board that often at all.

MrPillowTalk

Gholimoli wrote:

Eoin i really dont see him paying you off with anything at all.
look how passiv he has played the hand.

hero raises pre flop.
villain call.
then checks on A J 7 board and call a bet from hero .two broadway cards are deffo (more than anything with is his range now).unless he has called with 77 in wich case you would expect to see a c/r here more often that not.also there is not flush draws

then he check/calls another bet on the turn.what do we put him on?
broadway cards are the most likely holding for him and seen as there is only on J left its safe to say he does not have a J.
also if he made two pair or a set at any time you would expect an indication of that with a reise at some stage during the hand.
TT is possible but i dont see him paying you off on that board that often at all.

I dont expect to get paid off every time and I would expect villain to have a bad ace more often than not here, I basically never have him on a K after he river checks so I half pot bet hoping he will pay me with what ever he does have, you are going to get paid off more than enough for this to be quite a high ev bet.

Checking isnt terrible, against a good player I might check, but I am allways betting here I think you are giving villain too much credit.

Lafortezza

In hand 2, if I bet the river and then Villain goes all-in, I have an easy fold as Villain is incredibly unlikely to bluff-raise, and also very unlikely to raise a hand without a King in it.
If I bet the river and give Villain decent odds to call and 'see if his hand is good', then I think it's a long term profitable bet.
TT, AQ, AJ, 77 and so on are likely to call a small bet on the river imho.

Results in spoilers:
Hand 1

Hero calls and Villain shows TdTx for gutshot to higher straight and T-high flush draw. Villain misses, Hero wins. I thought there was a good chance that Villain could be semi-bluffing with a drawing or chopping hand. I also thought that he could have AA or KK with the A or K of diamonds.

Hand 2

Hero bet $55 on the river and Villain thought and called eventually with ATo.